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Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732]

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

FYI

I have not yet seen convincing evidence that supports lethal force in the Ferguson case. I have seen 'evidence' of both possibilities but not confirmed or official or substantiated. Both sides will make claims in their own best interests. I can speculate scenarios that both fully support lethal force and completely dismiss it based on statements and 'evidence' released so far. I hope that there is enough physical evidence to support statements and clearly prove this one way or another. Not betting on it tho.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

beefheart said:
Because he was unarmed and shot by the cops in the middle of the day for walking down the street, and we don't know anything otherwise. And the Ferguson PD hasn't exactly released any reports, and the cop certainly hasn't said anything. You have a dead kid, that is the reality.
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" Unharmed ". .....irrelevant

" Middle of the day "....irrelevant

" Walking Down the Street "..irrelevant

" You don't know otherwise "... Yes relevant, but that didn't stop you from showing up at DP and perpetuating a MYTH rather than waiting.

It didn't stop the looters, the protesters, the news outlets, the race hustlers AND the Washington Redskins ( morons ) from jumping to conclusions.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Fenton said:
" Unharmed ". .....irrelevant

" Middle of the day "....irrelevant

" Walking Down the Street "..irrelevant

" You don't know otherwise "... Yes relevant, but that didn't stop you from showing up at DP and perpetuating a MYTH rather than waiting.

It didn't stop the looters, the protesters, the news outlets, the race hustlers AND the Washington Redskins ( morons ) from jumping to conclusions.
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Washington Redskins? Don't insert irrelevant, off topic subjects as part of a rant when you don't have an answer.

Geez....focus
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

beefheart said:
Washington Redskins? Don't insert irrelevant, off topic subjects as part of a rant when you don't have an answer.

Geez....focus
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As a gesture of solidarity with the protesters they ran out on to the field with their hands up

What ? You were not aware of this ?

Your ignorance does npt equate to irrelevance on my part.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Fenton said:
As a gesture of solidarity with the protesters they ran out on to the field with their hands up

What ? You were not aware of this ?

Your ignorance does npt equate to irrelevance on my part.
Click to expand...

Still, it means nothing to the topic. But, it means something to you, I guess.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

beefheart said:
Still, it means nothing to the topic. But, it means something to you, I guess.
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The hell it doesn't.

It shows just how easilly influenced so many Americans were/are.

It showed how powerful the media can be when it comes to perpetuating manufactured narratives instead of the truth

Its MORE relevent than the myth that motivated them to do such a dumb thing in the first place.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Fenton said:
The hell it doesn't.

It shows just how easilly influenced so many Americans were/are.

It showed how powerful the media can be when it comes to perpetuating manufactured narratives instead of the truth

Its MORE relevent than the myth that motivated them to do such a dumb thing in the first place.
Click to expand...

Background noise.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Excon said:
Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

By Holly Yan, CNN
updated 12:36 AM EDT, Tue August 26, 2014


[...]

In the recording, a quick series of shots can be heard, followed by a pause and then another quick succession of shots.

"I personally heard at least 11" shots, the man's attorney, Lopa Blumenthal, told CNN's Don Lemon.

The man, who asked that his identity not be revealed, lives near the site of the shooting and was close enough to have heard the gunshots, Blumenthal said.

He was speaking to a friend on a video chat service and happened to be recording the conversation at the same time Brown was shot, Blumenthal said.

[...]​
Lawyer: Audio shows 11 shots when Michael Brown killed - CNN.com​


11 Shots in 5 seconds.
Short pause between 6 and the other five. Likely Brown was still coming at him.
Just more evidence.
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What I don't like in this case is what probable cause did the officer even have to talk to those two young men? Yeah I know they ripped off cigars but the cop didn't even know that at the time..

Cops just cant roll up and start questioning you for no reason....
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Mr.Nick said:
What I don't like in this case is what probable cause did the officer even have to talk to those two young men? Yeah I know they ripped off cigars but the cop didn't even know that at the time..

Cops just cant roll up and start questioning you for no reason....
Click to expand...

my recollection is that the cop was speaking with the pedestrians about not remaining in the street
that would indicate a valid reason
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

beefheart said:
Background noise.
Click to expand...


You know, if you have nothing intelligent to add you could always just not reply.

You know, instead of building on to the mountains of irrelevance that you're already responsible for.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Fenton said:
You know, if you have nothing intelligent to add you could always just not reply.

You know, instead of building on to the mountains of irrelevance that you're already responsible for.
Click to expand...

More oafish projection showing insecurity.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Mr.Nick said:
What I don't like in this case is what probable cause did the officer even have to talk to those two young men? Yeah I know they ripped off cigars but the cop didn't even know that at the time..

Cops just cant roll up and start questioning you for no reason....
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First, no one was being questioned. The police officer stopped them to begin with because they were walking down the middle of the street. He told them to get out of the street, then drove ahead of them a little bit. Then, he suddenly backed up the car to actually stop them/arrest them. Likely, at this point is where he either a) was informed that there had been a robbery and realized these two matched the description of the suspect(s) or b) already had the information but didn't make the connection until after he had already driven forward, which is why he backed up suddenly. This makes sense.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

roguenuke said:
First, no one was being questioned. The police officer stopped them to begin with because they were walking down the middle of the street. He told them to get out of the street, then drove ahead of them a little bit. Then, he suddenly backed up the car to actually stop them/arrest them. Likely, at this point is where he either a) was informed that there had been a robbery and realized these two matched the description of the suspect(s) or b) already had the information but didn't make the connection until after he had already driven forward, which is why he backed up suddenly. This makes sense.
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another possible motive for his actions was the failure of the pedestrians to leave the road way and get on the road side, thereby disrespecting the police officer and his instructions
don't recall reading that he activated his lights/siren, as might be expected in a pursuit
that failure may be indicative that he was personally piqued rather than professionally responsive
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

beefheart said:
More oafish projection showing insecurity.
Click to expand...

Lol !!

So your strategy is to continue posting irrelevant ad hominem nonsense ?
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

justabubba said:
another possible motive for his actions was the failure of the pedestrians to leave the road way and get on the road side, thereby disrespecting the police officer and his instructions
don't recall reading that he activated his lights/siren, as might be expected in a pursuit
that failure may be indicative that he was personally piqued rather than professionally responsive
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Except that Josie has already indicated that the reason he put the car in reverse was that hte call came over the radio and he realized that the two were involved. The police have already indicated that Josie's account matches the account that Wilson gave to them.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

buck said:
Except that Josie has already indicated that the reason he put the car in reverse was that hte call came over the radio and he realized that the two were involved. The police have already indicated that Josie's account matches the account that Wilson gave to them.
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let me make sure i understand what you are telling us
that the cop, at the moment he told the pedestrians to get out of the street, was unaware that these were the perps
but that mere seconds later it dawned on him that the pedestrians were the strong-arm robbery suspects
and he then backed up, without operating the sirens and lights in that pursuit, to confront them
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

justabubba said:
another possible motive for his actions was the failure of the pedestrians to leave the road way and get on the road side, thereby disrespecting the police officer and his instructions
don't recall reading that he activated his lights/siren, as might be expected in a pursuit
that failure may be indicative that he was personally piqued rather than professionally responsive
Click to expand...

It is possible. But it wouldn't explain why he was so "urgent" about it, so adamant about getting Brown into the police vehicle. There would be no reason for him to have acted that way for a couple of guys to just have been walking down the middle of the street. Now, technically, considering they were walking down the middle of the street, impeding potential traffic and putting themselves and others in danger, he could be justified in stopping them again for not adhering to the first instructions.

Why would he activate his sirens for pedestrians? They didn't have a car and were only a few feet away. Nothing about him not activating his sirens indicates in any way that he wasn't stopping them because of suspecting them of the robbery. In fact, it goes more into that belief, since it indicates that he might have believed that they would have run from him had he immediately put on his sirens and came in reverse towards them, particularly if they had just committed a crime. On the other hand, him just driving back towards them could be viewed as him just wanting to talk to them so he then could get close enough to actually arrest them, or so he probably thought.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

justabubba said:
let me make sure i understand what you are telling us
that the cop, at the moment he told the pedestrians to get out of the street, was unaware that these were the perps
but that mere seconds later it dawned on him that the pedestrians were the strong-arm robbery suspects
and he then backed up, without operating the sirens and lights in that pursuit, to confront them
Click to expand...

You don't think this could happen? Heck, it is possible that he knew about the robbery but didn't make the connection until he pulled away from them and he noticed something.

It would have been stupid to put on his sirens. They were walking, not in a vehicle. This puts him at a disadvantage if, upon seeing the sirens, they decided to simply run from him. He would then have two suspects fleeing, likely in different directions, with him still in his vehicle in the middle of the street. He wouldn't really know whether they were armed or not, even if he got the report that the robbery did not involve weapons.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

roguenuke said:
It is possible. But it wouldn't explain why he was so "urgent" about it, so adamant about getting Brown into the police vehicle. There would be no reason for him to have acted that way for a couple of guys to just have been walking down the middle of the street. Now, technically, considering they were walking down the middle of the street, impeding potential traffic and putting themselves and others in danger, he could be justified in stopping them again for not adhering to the first instructions.

Why would he activate his sirens for pedestrians? They didn't have a car and were only a few feet away. Nothing about him not activating his sirens indicates in any way that he wasn't stopping them because of suspecting them of the robbery. In fact, it goes more into that belief, since it indicates that he might have believed that they would have run from him had he immediately put on his sirens and came in reverse towards them, particularly if they had just committed a crime. On the other hand, him just driving back towards them could be viewed as him just wanting to talk to them so he then could get close enough to actually arrest them, or so he probably thought.
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Okay, let's think about what you're saying. Do you truly believe that the officer wanted to get Brown into the vehicle by (assuming he was in fact told of the robbery and was acting on that) pulling him through the window? Seriously?

You do know that makes no sense right? Those apprehended by the police are generally placed in the back of the vehicle.

It make about as much sense as Brown, who was JUST shot at, turns around to dare the officer who was shooting at him... to shoot. Then, no longer afraid of being shot, charged like a bull at the officer. Sure, it's possible... but highly unlikely.

For your scenario to make sense, you have to suspend all belief that the officer would actually act inappropriately. Is it not just as probable the officer was an asshole that was power-trippin' and that was the only reason this entire encounter occurred?
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Tettsuo said:
Okay, let's think about what you're saying. Do you truly believe that the officer wanted to get Brown into the vehicle by (assuming he was in fact told of the robbery and was acting on that) pulling him through the window? Seriously?

You do know that makes no sense right? Those apprehended by the police are generally placed in the back of the vehicle.

It make about as much sense as Brown, who was JUST shot at, turns around to dare the officer who was shooting at him... to shoot. Then, no longer afraid of being shot, charged like a bull at the officer. Sure, it's possible... but highly unlikely.

For your scenario to make sense, you have to suspend all belief that the officer would actually act inappropriately. Is it not just as probable the officer was an asshole that was power-trippin' and that was the only reason this entire encounter occurred?
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I've never said the action was appropriate. It was likely done in the heat of the moment, an attempt to stop him from running after Wilson tried to open his door to get to them and had it shut back on him. He likely grabbed for them, and managed to get a hold on Brown. It doesn't make it right or wrong. It was almost certainly a reaction.

It is much more probable that the officer was trying to stop them for suspicion of being the robbery suspects than for him simply being on a power trip. There is no indication (so far) that this officer was the type to go on "power trips" to begin with. There is an indication though that he is willing to stop and detain/apprehend suspects when they are suspected of having committed a crime since that is what he basically got his commendation for about 6 months before the incident.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

justabubba said:
let me make sure i understand what you are telling us
that the cop, at the moment he told the pedestrians to get out of the street, was unaware that these were the perps
but that mere seconds later it dawned on him that the pedestrians were the strong-arm robbery suspects
and he then backed up, without operating the sirens and lights in that pursuit, to confront them
Click to expand...

I believe that the indication was that he initially stopped to get them out of hte road. He then started pulling away, then realized that the guy had cigars in his hand and matched the description.. Or the call came over the radio about the theft after he started pulling away.

But yes. It makes sense that he would not have put the lights on for a handful of reasons.. one of which is that it was not a "pursuit". The two weren't running yet. T hey were walking int he middle of the street.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Tettsuo said:
Okay, let's think about what you're saying. Do you truly believe that the officer wanted to get Brown into the vehicle by (assuming he was in fact told of the robbery and was acting on that) pulling him through the window? Seriously?
Click to expand...

I agree with you. Seems silly to beleive that a cop is trying ot pull a 300 lb guy through a window. Wether trying to get him in the car or not.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

roguenuke said:
You don't think this could happen? Heck, it is possible that he knew about the robbery but didn't make the connection until he pulled away from them and he noticed something.
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no doubt, that is a possibility
only it has been presented as what must have occurred ... and it is that assessment with which i disagree

It would have been stupid to put on his sirens. They were walking, not in a vehicle. This puts him at a disadvantage if, upon seeing the sirens, they decided to simply run from him. He would then have two suspects fleeing, likely in different directions, with him still in his vehicle in the middle of the street. He wouldn't really know whether they were armed or not, even if he got the report that the robbery did not involve weapons.
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then it would appear your presentation is that by reversing his vehicle towards them, he was in stealth mode, attempting to conceal his intent to approach them, refusing to alert them of his intent with lights and siren
and my conclusion is that this is a baseless premise, based on what has been presented
the pedestrians did not leave the scene in their efforts to escape, recognizing the police vehicle was backing up towards them
the patrol car driver-side door was opened against one of them, indicating they were in no hurry to avoid the cop's presence, otherwise, such contact would not have been made as they were fleeing the scene
to me, this most indicates the pedestrians were indifferent to the patrolman's directions, both when he departed them initially, after telling them to get out of the street, and upon his return, when they had not. hardly the actions of parties concerned about being apprehended for their actions, as pedestrians or as strong-arm robbers
my surmise is that this dismissal of the patrolman and his directions is what caused the cop to return towards the pedestrians in the unannounced manner, aggravated that they refused to heed his directions
but my assessment is preliminary, formed by speculation, rather than the complete facts, which have yet to be disclosed
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Tettsuo said:
It make about as much sense as Brown, who was JUST shot at, turns around to dare the officer who was shooting at him... to shoot. Then, no longer afraid of being shot, charged like a bull at the officer. Sure, it's possible... but highly unlikely.
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Which would go to his not being shot at first.
And the spontaneous witness clearly indicated that he continued toward the Officer as the Officer shot.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

This is a biased source.. and due to that bias they have some of this wrong... but.. Here is basically what the police chief said:

But Darren Wilson, the officer who stopped Brown, wasn’t even aware that Brown was a suspect in the robbery, Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson said Friday afternoon. The officer initially stopped Brown and his friend, Dorian Johnson, because the pair was walking in the middle of a residential street, Jackson said, an admission that provoked outrage from Brown’s family and attorneys.
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Hours later, Jackson appeared to change his story, telling NBC News that while the officer who shot Brown initially stopped him for walking in the street and blocking traffic, “at some point” during the encounter the officer saw cigars in Brown’s hands and thought he might be a suspect in the robbery.
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Again, that's the biased version. From the beginning the police chief indicated that Darren Wilson didn not "initially" stop them due to the cigar robbery. Note the use of the word initally.
 
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