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Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732]

shrubnose said:
That's all your opinion, which you are entitled to and I don't agree with.


Eventually we'll see what the courts think about this case.

That
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Like I said. That's just silly.
 
Buck Ewer said:
Called it in post #108.
Four shots in the second grouping.
Everyone said they heard five. I kept hearing four, but I figured I must be missing something if everyone else agrees.
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I think most folks were going on what was stated in the CNN article and not personally claiming anything.
1 shot less.? Big deal. :doh
 
Excon said:
:doh

So you think a Jury isn't going to see that he says one shot, then a turn and an attempt to surrender doesn't jibe with the evidence?
That's just silly.
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All the Grand Jury needs to recommend an indictment is to have some doubt that this homicide wasn't justified .
The mere fact that there are 4 witnesses that say they saw Wilson shot a surrendering man presents doubt.
The GJ isn't there to determine guilt or how many shots, or who is lying ... all they are looking for is doubt.

This case is going to trial.
:lamo:lamo:lamo:2wave:
 
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Excon said:

:shrug:
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A witness said shots were fired while the officer was still in the patrol car. The pause after the first six shots could have been Wilson getting out of the car.


One of the witnesses said it looked like the cop tried to hit MB with the patrol car door after he tried to cut him off. But was the cop deliberately trying to hit MB with the car door or was MB blocking the door and preventing the cop from getting out of the car?

Shots were fired while the cop was still in the car and since the autopsy shows that six bullets hit MB then it's highly likely that at least a few of those bullets hit him (in the hand and arm?) causing him to back away from the car door which then allowed Wilson to finally get out and proceed to fire four more shots one of which was the fatal bullet to the head. I dunno, it makes more sense that MB would have been backing away from a cop firing a gun at him from inside a patrol car rather than waiting to charge him after he got out of the car.
 
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Excon said:
I think most folks were going on what was stated in the CNN article and not personally claiming anything.
1 shot less.? Big deal. :doh
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Exactly!
Like that ridiculously slanted audio tape you presented as "proof" that Brown was running towards Wilson.
The perceived number of gunshots on that recording is a perfect example of how people's perception gets skewed when they are told in text what to hear before they really listen.
The quality of that recording was so poor and there was so much distracting background noise and yelling that if you played that for ten people with no text overlay you would get ten different interpretations of what was said.
:lamo:lamo:lamo:2wave:
 
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Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Miss, miss, miss, miss, hit, hit, pause, adjust hit, hit, hit, hit.

Now, the officer could have been firing warning shots first off trying to stop advancement. The officer was said to be beaten, so he could have been cockeyed missing the first 4 and then finally got his bearings,

The first two probably got him in the arm, which wouldn't slow him down, the final four doing him in.

There's too many what if's that lead to a reasonable doubt.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

ChezC3 said:
Miss, miss, miss, miss, hit, hit, pause, adjust hit, hit, hit, hit.

Now, the officer could have been firing warning shots first off trying to stop advancement. The officer was said to be beaten, so he could have been cockeyed missing the first 4 and then finally got his bearings,

The first two probably got him in the arm, which wouldn't slow him down, the final four doing him in.

There's too many what if's that lead to a reasonable doubt.
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It could either support or negate Officer Wilson's claims and it's impossible for us to know which at this point. Once we know Wilson's official statement, more can be drawn from the recording of the shots. I suspect it will support his statement, but that's just speculative on my part.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

buck said:
It could either support or negate Officer Wilson's claims and it's impossible for us to know which at this point. Once we know Wilson's official statement, more can be drawn from the recording of the shots. I suspect it will support his statement, but that's just speculative on my part.
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at this stage I would be surprised if the GJ indicts...If they do it will end in a NG. Like I said, too many what ifs...
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Excon said:
I thought of that.
It could be that he had his headphones with a mic boom on and had just started recording at that very moment.
:shrug:

If not, yeah, it is highly suspicious.
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I'm never had a headphones setup that didn't play the mic pickup back in my headphones.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

americanwoman said:
"CNN cannot independently verify authenticity of the recording and is awaiting confirmation from the FBI."

'nuff said. I'll wait until it's actually validated.
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This is my favorite post in this thread. :thumbs: Multiple likes.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

ChezC3 said:
at this stage I would be surprised if the GJ indicts...If they do it will end in a NG. Like I said, too many what ifs...
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the only way an indictment cannot happen is if they can absolutely show that the policeman acted appropriately
and there is nothing to indicate that
just as with the trayvon case, a trial is needed to show the community that justice resulted after the shooting
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

shrubnose said:
Or just as likely that he was lying on the ground with blood seeping out of multiple bullet wounds, eh?

How can anyone really know if they weren't an eyewitness?
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Well, if brown was laying on the ground and Wilson only struck 6 times at point blank range, I'd say Wilson needs some better training.
 
justabubba said:
the only way an indictment cannot happen is if they can absolutely show that the policeman acted appropriately
and there is nothing to indicate that
just as with the trayvon case, a trial is needed to show the community that justice resulted after the shooting
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Keep hoping.

If there was any credibility in Johnson's statements, or the three other witnesses that echoed his lies, there would have been an indictment already.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Lursa said:
Have you tried it? 30 feet is actually the 'self defense' distance that most people practice at for that purpose (self defense). So many of us (regular people) train in situations where you shoot things at that distance and closer...moving, from behind different barriers, laying down, changing out magazines on the move, being timed. That is pressure enough. It is very hard under that pressure alone. One drill is just hitting paper plates at 30 feet while moving....not that easy, it requires a lot of focus...and you are not in fear for your life which is pretty much a given any time ANYONE, cop or other, has a legit reason to use lethal force.

I'm guessing you were not in the military. You can be aiming as hard as you can...you also have to control your body. There are only so many ways that kind of stress can be simulated for training. Otherwise, you do not know how you will react until it really happens.

So you choose to risk the cop's lives and the publics' but limiting the cop's capacity to defend themselves, instead of weighing the danger of the criminal escaping and continuing to be a risk. That's your opinion.
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Behind barriers, left handed, right handed, against moving target. And yes it's hard. Many times so when under real pressure I'd imagine - and no I've never been in that situation with firearm.

I said as much in post didn't I? I'm simply saying that all those missed shots represent a real risk to innocent people. Not the potential risk that an escaping person might represent or the non risk that Brown represented.

And yeah the though had crossed my mind that the fact that cops are armed with semi autos with high capacity magazines might have something to do with it. When they were typically armed .38 revolvers I don't think situations like Brown's where a dozen shots were fired
were as common but I might be wrong about that.

And I'm not saying we should take away the autos either. Just recognize that you may be trading innocent people's safety for cops' safety
and given that cops voluntarily take on the risks of their jobs - such as they are being a cop is pretty safe occupation - I'm not sure that's a fair tradeoff.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Lursa said:
Have you practiced shooting it while moving? From behind cover? Under pressure?
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Another point. You've spoken at length about the firearms training that police receive. Are you an officer? Do you know any? My kid brother retired from the NYPD, one of my closest friends retired from the the Nassau County PD. At least when they were in both departments the sense that I got from both is that the firearms training wasn't anything to write home about. And the recurrent training wasn't pretty sparse.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Buck Ewer said:
Angry rage and a good shot of adrenaline can make even a meek personality pretty vile and violent for a few seconds. Wilson had just been in the course of a minute or so been disobeyed and disrespected by a cocky teen, hit on the face, he had just discharged his weapon in his car and he had to chase a suspect on foot who was walking or running away from that encounter.
had he been thinking clearly without rage , the prudent thing to do would have been to holster his piece and draw his Taser as he left the cruiser. This was a busy street at high noon on a weekend and Brown was not going very far very fast.
Wilson's decisions were clouded and distorted by rage and vengeance.
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Laughable nonsense.
 
opendebate said:
I got up and ran across the room until the shots stopped then pivoted on my front foot and walked back the direction I came from. I was able to walk several steps before the shots began again. Apparently, you're mistaken. It is possible.
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Good morning OD.

Perhaps unwittingly, but seems to me you've just outlined a scenario where Wilson would be justified in shooting to kill in self-defense. You claim that within the period between the first series of shots and the second series of shots, you were able to stop, pivot, and walk several steps before the shots began again. This could just as easily indicate that even after being hit by at least two shots in the first volley, Brown had time to continue moving towards the officer instead of laying on the ground, incapacitated. As mentioned previously, an officer is trained not to shoot unless they intend to keep shooting until the target is incapacitated and not moving.
 
Moot said:
One of the witnesses said it looked like the cop tried to hit MB with the patrol car door after he tried to cut him off. But was the cop deliberately trying to hit MB with the car door or was MB blocking the door and preventing the cop from getting out of the car?
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If a macho contest had ensued, and I truly believe one had, the answer may well be in between:

Act I, Scene I The Walk
-Brown, feeling pumped up from slapping down the clerk and taking all his smokes, and wanting to impress his friend further, is sauntering down the middle of the street.
-Wilson sees Brown and his first thought is "WTF- who does he think he is?"
-Wilson orders Brown to the sidewalk. Brown, knowing he has an audience, complies very slowly (dis-respects Wilson)

Act I scene II The Door
-Wilson get pissed, reverses and deliberatly cuts close to Brown and opens the door (Re-asserts his dominance)
-Brown then tries to push the door out of his way, (No, I am dominant)
-Wilson grabs Brown (Nope, I am dominant). Brown resists (Just slapped down a "punk" at the store, you want to be next?).

Things go down hill and Wilson eventually re-asserts his dominance by killing Brown in a rage
 
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Cryptic said:
If a macho contest had ensued, and I truly believe one had, the answer may well be in between:

Act I, Scene I The Walk
-Brown, feeling pumped up from slapping down the clerk and taking all his smokes, and wanting to impress his friend further, is sauntering down the middle of the street.
-Wilson sees Brown and his first thought is "WTF- who does he think he is?"
-Wilson orders Brown to the sidewalk. Brown, knowing he as an audience, complies very slowly (dis-respects Wilson)

Act I scene II The Door
-Wilson get pissed, reverses and deliberatly cuts close to Brown and opens the door (Re-asserts his dominance)
-Brown then tries to push the door out of his way, (No, I am dominant)
-Wilson grabs Brown

Things go down hill.... .
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A cop is supposed to be more mature than an 18 year old...
I guess he isn't.
He had to get "even".
Wilson could have easily killed several people on a busy street at noon on a Saturday with that kind of incompetent shooting.
He should have holstered his piece, sat in his cruiser and called in an APB ...
He was well known, unarmed and he weighed 300 pounds.
Brown would have been apprehended within 10 minutes.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Excon said:
No?
Their is no credible evidence that he fired at him as he fled.
Only that he was approaching the Officer as the Officer fired on him. As that witness made clear, he was surprised that Brown kept moving forward thinking the Officer was missing.
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Wow... so eyewitnesses are no longer credible? Seriously, you're so far from reality on this, it's sad.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

justabubba said:
the only way an indictment cannot happen is if they can absolutely show that the policeman acted appropriately
and there is nothing to indicate that
just as with the trayvon case, a trial is needed to show the community that justice resulted after the shooting
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I agree.

They need to have a trial to be able to say that this case ended with justice for all.

Ultimately the police department in Ferguson needs to be a lot more diverse no matter how any trial(s) turn out.
 
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Buck Ewer said:
A cop is supposed to be more mature than an 18 year old...
I guess he isn't.
He had to get "even".
Wilson could have easily killed several people on a busy street at noon on a Saturday with that kind of incompetent shooting.
He should have holstered his piece, sat in his cruiser and called in an APB ...
He was well known, unarmed and he weighed 300 pounds.
Brown would have been apprehended within 10 minutes.
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I agree completely. Though many police and corrections officers do operate in an honor culture where respect / disrespect is important, they are expected to keep their emotions under control and to remember as you pointed out: they are the police and not a pumped up 18 year old with an audience.

Speaking of the audience, the presence of Johnson probably amplified Wilson's reaction as well. Wilson was disrespected in front of a witness who was also just the sort to spread exaggerated tales of Brown slapping him aside and "owning" him.

CanadaJohn said:
Laughable nonsense.
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You dont think that a respect / disrespect issues can esalate very quickly to the point of somebody getting killed?

Police are human, and many police in the US have honor culture backgrounds. Granted, police almost always keep their emotions under control and dont let macho contests escalate. But... it can happen.
 
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Typical CNN reporting cycle:

Day One: BREAKING NEWS

Day Two: Was the breaking news yesterday a hoax?

 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Tettsuo said:
Wow... so eyewitnesses are no longer credible? Seriously, you're so far from reality on this, it's sad.
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Actually they aren't. Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable, especially when being exposed to something - like a shooting - for the first time.
 
Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Tettsuo said:
Wow... so eyewitnesses are no longer credible? Seriously, you're so far from reality on this, it's sad.
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Excon already made up his mind. Anything that contradicts what he thinks is "nonsense." Any evidence that comes out means he was definitely right.
 
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