Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732]

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

longview said:

I have been loosely following this story.
While it is a tragedy that this young man is dead, it does not sound like this was a case of a bad cop.
People need to look at this from the perspective of what a real racial cop shooting looks like.
Man shot by police officer in his driveway in Bellaire | null
Robert Tolan's case is winding it's way through the courts, but this looks like a racial shooting.
Thrown to the ground in his Parents driveway, for the crime of a black man driving a nice car.
His mother came out and told the officer it was his car, and was thrown against the wall.
Tolan stood up to say something and was shot.

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Lol. At least you allow your opinion to be viewed as "loose."

Sounds to me like typical, eh black guy unjustly killed but wasn't caught on tape so no big deal, deflection.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Moot said:

The parents anger is justified. What you would do is totally irrelevant to what someone else in their situation would do. Consider what the parents, especially the mother might have gone through to get that boy to finish HS and without a police record. He was due to start college this fall. Do you have any idea what that might mean to a black family? I doubt you do.

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I'm still wondering why he was living with his grandmother.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

JC_CT said:

Police officers have a unique job. However, the danger is overplayed and the responsibility is underplayed.

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Ah, this opinion explains your perspective here so far.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Lursa said:

Ah, this opinion explains your perspective here so far.

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Is being a police officer one of the most dangerous jobs? Do you have any idea what you're talking about when you decide to chime in?

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Lursa said:

Ah, this opinion explains your perspective here so far.

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Or how about the difference between cause and effect?

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

JC_CT said:

Is being a police officer one of the most dangerous jobs? Do you have any idea what you're talking about when you decide to chime in?

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It is one of the most stressful jobs and would be more dangerous if not for the actions police take. It is also one of the only jobs where a main source of danger is being killed or hurt by someone else rather than dying or being injured in an accident. Being murdered is an occupational hazard, unlike with most other jobs.

How Dangerous is a Law Enforcement Career

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

JC_CT said:

Is being a police officer one of the most dangerous jobs? Do you have any idea what you're talking about when you decide to chime in?

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I believe it is increasingly so these days.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

roguenuke said:

It is one of the most stressful jobs and would be more dangerous if not for the actions police take. It is also one of the only jobs where a main source of danger is being killed or hurt by someone else rather than dying or being injured in an accident. Being murdered is an occupational hazard, unlike with most other jobs.

How Dangerous is a Law Enforcement Career

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j-mac said:

I believe it is increasingly so these days.

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It's no doubt a dangerous job, but it's not a free pass to avoid criticism of using excess force. In Ferguson, there have been at least two unarmed citizens killed by police in the past three years, and both of them likely could have been apprehended without the use of deadly force had things been done differently. I haven't heard of any officers in Ferguson killed on the job during that period.

We don't know all the details about Jason Moore, but what the lawsuit is alleging is appalling. That type of incident makes you wonder whether it's not more dangerous to be a citizen than it is to be a police officer in some of these places.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

JC_CT said:

It's no doubt a dangerous job, but it's not a free pass to avoid criticism of using excess force. In Ferguson, there have been at least two unarmed citizens killed by police in the past three years, and both of them likely could have been apprehended without the use of deadly force had things been done differently. I haven't heard of any officers in Ferguson killed on the job during that period.

We don't know all the details about Jason Moore, but what the lawsuit is alleging is appalling. That type of incident makes you wonder whether it's not more dangerous to be a citizen than it is to be a police officer in some of these places.

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In some areas, it is more dangerous to be a citizen but not because of the cops. This is for several different areas, but has little to do with law enforcement.

The thing is, you have to prove excessive force. According to the report we have, Brown punched/hit Wilson, a police officer in the face while resisting arrest. I don't know if Wilson had a taser (he likely should have used that), but it is the officer's decision to use the force he feels is necessary so long as he can justify that use of force. That is what this comes down to which means waiting for more information to come out.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

The Mark said:

Perhaps he was pacing because he was thinking "****, I just killed someone", or something along those lines..

I would be, but then I have no desire to become a police officer so that's probably not a situation I'd end up in.

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You think he would be getting help with his broken orbital socket, if he had one, which I highly doubt.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

JC_CT said:

Is being a police officer one of the most dangerous jobs? Do you have any idea what you're talking about when you decide to chime in?

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No it is not in the "top ten" however it is a very dangerous, stressful job where every day the cop risks his life.

I was in LE for 13 years as a park ranger and worked closely with the PDs of 3 major cities, Seattle, S. Louis, NYPD. They provided alot of our training, we went on ride alongs, worked emergencies and crimes with them (I was a ranger in Central Park). Drank and played darts with them. Dated them. Still ride and compete with them.

JC_CT said:

It's no doubt a dangerous job, but it's not a free pass to avoid criticism of using excess force. .

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I never said anyone should avoid anything about using excess force.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

JC_CT said:

Or how about the difference between cause and effect?

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That you are underplaying their risks and that affects your perspective?

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Texmex said:

You think he would be getting help with his broken orbital socket, if he had one, which I highly doubt.

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Assuming he actually had injuries, adrenaline can block that out for a short time, I think.

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The Mark said:

Assuming he actually had injuries, adrenaline can block that out for a short time, I think.

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Yea, I know. I had a motorcycle accident where I broke 8ribs and my shoulder blade. It didn't take very long for the pain to start.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Texmex said:

Yea, I know. I had a motorcycle accident where I broke 8ribs and my shoulder blade. It didn't take very long for the pain to start.

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It took about an hour for me to feel pain in my broken nose. It ached a little but it wasn't that bad. In fact, the most pain I had was after they reset it a day or so later. And my nose was badly swollen for months.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Lursa said:

That you are underplaying their risks and that affects your perspective?

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That my opinion that people have it wrong is an effect of the reactions I've seen to this case despite the known evidence. Wilson is presumed innocent, and also every eyewitness is presumed to be guilty, including Brown, or they have had words put in their mouth. It is a double standard in favor of law enforcement over the community they swear to, but don't always, protect.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Texmex said:

Yea, I know. I had a motorcycle accident where I broke 8ribs and my shoulder blade. It didn't take very long for the pain to start.

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I've done that....broke ribs...at the back, at the vertebra, not front...and separated a shoulder. Had to get back on horse and ride miles home. I was mostly in shock, not in much pain at all, did not hit my head (helmet) but repeated the same things over and over...was very disoriented.

The pain hit later...and lasted weeks.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

JC_CT said:

That my opinion that people have it wrong is an effect of the reactions I've seen to this case despite the known evidence. Wilson is presumed innocent, and also every eyewitness is presumed to be guilty, including Brown, or they have had words put in their mouth. It is a double standard in favor of law enforcement over the community they swear to, but don't always, protect.

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All I have done is explain the facts and known training, realities, etc about specific statements and comments made. (from witnesses, evidence, and people here.) I have not weighed in at all on my opinion on this particular incident and if you had read other threads on this event, you would have seen examples where I certainly did not show cops in a positive light.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Lursa said:

I've done that....broke ribs...at the back, at the vertebra, not front...and separated a shoulder. Had to get back on horse and ride miles home. I was mostly in shock, not in much pain at all, did not hit my head (helmet) but repeated the same things over and over...was very disoriented.

The pain hit later...and lasted weeks.

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My ribs hurt the second they broke. I knew my ribs were broken and I suspected my shoulder was as well. What really caused me a problem was that one of the ribs had penetrated one of my lungs. Maybe that's the pain I felt, but I assure you it didn't take two seconds for me to be in pretty bad pain. Of course at time I didn't know about the suction tube the ER doctor would stick in this deflated lung. That taught me a new definition of pain.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Texmex said:

My ribs hurt the second they broke. I knew my ribs were broken and I suspected my shoulder was as well. What really caused me a problem was that one of the ribs had penetrated one of my lungs. Maybe that's the pain I felt, but I assure you it didn't take two seconds for me to be in pretty bad pain. Of course at time I didn't know about the suction tube the ER doctor would stick in this deflated lung. That taught me a new definition of pain.

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It all depends on the injury and the person. Like I said, I didn't even realize my nose was more than just a bruise from hitting it until I wiped my nose and my hand came back covered in blood. There was just virtually no pain for about that first hour, and even after that, it was more throbbing than anything up til the doctor reset it. But it was swollen and my eyes started turning black and blue by later that night.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

JC_CT said:

It's no doubt a dangerous job, but it's not a free pass to avoid criticism of using excess force. In Ferguson, there have been at least two unarmed citizens killed by police in the past three years, and both of them likely could have been apprehended without the use of deadly force had things been done differently. I haven't heard of any officers in Ferguson killed on the job during that period.

We don't know all the details about Jason Moore, but what the lawsuit is alleging is appalling. That type of incident makes you wonder whether it's not more dangerous to be a citizen than it is to be a police officer in some of these places.

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I will in no way say that ALL cops are "good cops", nor that mistakes aren't made. We have human beings doing this job, and human beings make mistakes. But, I don't think anyone is saying that police should be above criticism, nor that individual situations weren't handled in the best possible ways. When you and others say things like "...could have been apprehended without the use of deadly force...", or that you haven't heard of any officers killed in the line of duty presupposes a couple of things...

1. When you say "likely could have been apprehended without deadly force" assumes that there was no danger to Wilson's well being. I would remind you that he was already attacked in his cruiser, and (according to some reports) was being approached again by an assailant that was significantly larger than him, and known to be aggressive, also was obviously ignoring orders by the officer to surrender. Wilson's first duty is to finish his shift alive.

2. Others that have been shot while unarmed in Ferguson...What does any other case have to do with this one? Circumstances are all different. Even if you say that this makes two in three years, my goodness man, that's pretty low considering the area this is in.

So, sorry JC, I don't think at this point we can rush to anything...If Wilson is proven to have murdered this man then the system will convict and he will, and should go to prison. And if, as I think, Wilson had no choice at the moment, then he will be exonerated of this.

One thing is for sure, Wilson's life is ruined. His career, his financial life, his future are done. All because some punk wanted to use his size, and bravado to bully his way through life, tangled with a cop and lost.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

JC_CT said:

That my opinion that people have it wrong is an effect of the reactions I've seen to this case despite the known evidence. Wilson is presumed innocent, and also every eyewitness is presumed to be guilty, including Brown, or they have had words put in their mouth. It is a double standard in favor of law enforcement over the community they swear to, but don't always, protect.

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But we don't convict on "opinion".... Your's or anyone else's....It's all in who you want to believe at this point I guess....You are choosing to believe those that have an agenda to show the cop in grave error, and others like myself are giving a benefit of the doubt at this point to the officer. All of that matter not. The only thing that matters is the day that the jury renders it's final verdict.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Lursa said:

All I have done is explain the facts and known training, realities, etc about specific statements and comments made. (from witnesses, evidence, and people here.) I have not weighed in at all on my opinion on this particular incident and if you had read other threads on this event, you would have seen examples where I certainly did not show cops in a positive light.

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I didn't mean you personally.

j-mac said:

But we don't convict on "opinion".... Your's or anyone else's....It's all in who you want to believe at this point I guess....You are choosing to believe those that have an agenda to show the cop in grave error, and others like myself are giving a benefit of the doubt at this point to the officer. All of that matter not. The only thing that matters is the day that the jury renders it's final verdict.

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We are talking about the court of public opinion vs. a court of law. Of course Wilson gets his day in court. Michael Brown didn't, and that is a tragedy whether it is Darren Wilson's fault or not.

And I don't think Tiffany Mitchell, Paiget Crenshaw, Michael Brady or Emanuel Freeman have an agenda. I'm sure Dorian Johnson has an "agenda" to not trust the cops and to protect himself and his dead friend from incrimination, but his story matches the other four when it comes down to what matters, whether he tried to surrender, so it isn't evidence to the contrary. I still don't understand what agenda the other four allegedly have.

This will go on the back burner for a bit regardless.

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JC_CT said:

And I don't think Tiffany Mitchell, Paiget Crenshaw, Michael Brady or Emanuel Freeman have an agenda. I'm sure Dorian Johnson has an "agenda" to not trust the cops and to protect himself and his dead friend from incrimination, but his story matches the other four when it comes down to what matters, whether he tried to surrender, so it isn't evidence to the contrary. I still don't understand what agenda the other four allegedly have.

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That's funny.
But we will see.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

Hey look, another made up rumor is proven wrong, again.

Juvenile court: Michael Brown had no serious felony convictions, did not face felony charges : News