Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732]

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Meadowlark said:

Have you noticed the discrepancies with his story?

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I've noticed discrepancies in everyone's story....especially the police. But you only seem to notice Johnson's and even there you don't seem to know much. So how come you're so keen to discredit him?

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

JC_CT said:

There is no question in my mind that parts of Johnson's account are, as you put it, enhanced. That doesn't at all mean that we take his entire testimony and throw it out the window. We don't consider his word to be 100% solid on its own, but we take it into consideration as a piece of a larger body of evidence.

There are parts of his testimony that even the PD isn't disputing. We know for a fact that not all of his testimony is a lie, so why would we treat it as such?

Tiffany Mitchell, Paiget Crenshaw, Emanual Freeman (@TheePharaoh), Michael Brady, and the aforementioned Dorian Johnson all stated that Wilson fired at Brown as Brown was running away. The man in the background of the so-called "game changer" video didn't explicitly say one way or another, but if anything his use of the language "the police KEPT dumping on him" when first directly referring to gunfire would lean towards evidence that there was prior gunfire - but should reasonably be classified as inconclusive. Now we have an alleged tape recording of the gun shots which doesn't provide hard proof, but fits well with the scenario of shots fired at Brown's back, followed by a separate volley of shots fired at his front.

Oh yeah, and 9 days ago The New York Times reported that law enforcement officials confirmed that Wilson fired his weapon as Brown and Johnson were running away but didn't hit anyone, and nobody involved in the investigation has tried to deny it to my knowledge.

So now we have the police confirming a key aspect of multiple eyewitnesses' accounts, including Johnson's. There is a person claiming to speak on behalf of someone who witnessed the shooting that failed to mention the fact that shots were fired at Brown's back...Josie. In fact, im contrast to the man in the "game changer" video, she used the term "so he just STARTED shooting" to describe when Wilson opened fire when Brown was allegedly bumrushing him.

So who's credibility is really lost?

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Thanks, we know Johnson enhanced his story, a small percentage was actually true because he left out major parts.
With that, take in the information from all the other witnesses and you've got a good framework of what happened,
but until we hear from Officer Wilson; we really don't know what happened from his perspective.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Moot said:

The officer had a spokesperson called "Josie" that told his side of the story. It's in the CNN link that I posted earlier. The Ferguson Police chief also repeated parts of Wilson's story to the press. So we do sorta have the officers story but it's not holding water where the tussle inside the cruiser is concerned.

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We have part of it, but no gun powder residue does not have any affect on it. He could have shot the gun from far enough away that there was no powder left or that it came off. They have had suicide victims (that shot themselves) test negative for gun powder residue. We can't actually know for sure if there should have been GSR on his hands or not, even if he had been reaching for the gun. Plus, "Josie" claimed that it was after Wilson shoved the weapon from his hip that it fired. So long as Brown's hands weren't still on it at that point, he wouldn't necessarily test positive for GSR.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

buck said:

They indicated there was not any stippling around the wounds. No gun powder (stippling) found on the body would indicate it was a shot from a bit further away.



Ferguson, Missouri, police shooting: What Michael Brown's autopsy can (and can't) tell us - CBS News

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If Michael Brown didn't have gun powder residue on him then wouldn't that discredit the officers story that he was trying to grab the officers gun when it went off?

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Meadowlark said:

Thanks, we know Johnson enhanced his story, a small percentage was actually true because he left out major parts.
With that, take in the information from all the other witnesses and you've got a good framework of what happened,
but until we hear from Officer Wilson; we really don't know what happened from his perspective.

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Which major parts did he leave out?

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Moot said:

If Michael Brown didn't have gun powder residue on him then wouldn't that discredit the officers story that he was trying to grab the officers gun when it went off?

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Not necessarily. It would depend on where Brown's hands were right when it went off in the car. Josie claims Wilson had just pushed Brown off him when it went off, meaning his hands and other exposed body parts might not have been close enough at that time to get GSR on the skin.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Moot said:

I've noticed discrepancies in everyone's story....especially the police. But you only seem to notice Johnson's and even there you don't seem to know much. So how come you're so keen to discredit him?

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Meh, I've made very few posts on this topic, until we have the facts of what happened,
everyone is speculating for the most part.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Moot said:

If Michael Brown didn't have gun powder residue on him then wouldn't that discredit the officers story that he was trying to grab the officers gun when it went off?

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Hello, I thought I heard that by the time of the private autopsy the body had
already been embalmed, I think they normally clean the body before embalming.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

JC_CT said:

Which major parts did he leave out?

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I don't believe Johnson mentioned Brown turning around and running towards Wilson.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Meadowlark said:

I don't believe Johnson mentioned Brown turning around and running towards Wilson.

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Neither did any of the other witnesses. So we conclude they are all liars for leaving that out.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

JC_CT said:

Neither did any of the other witnesses. So we conclude they are all liars for leaving that out.

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You asked me about Johnson, and other witnesses have discribed Brown as running towards Officer Wilson.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Meadowlark said:

You asked me about Johnson, and other witnesses have discribed Brown as running towards Officer Wilson.

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Which witnesses described Brown as running towards Officer Wilson?

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Moot said:

If Michael Brown didn't have gun powder residue on him then wouldn't that discredit the officers story that he was trying to grab the officers gun when it went off?

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He'd also have to be pretty close to blowout Wilson's eyesocket, if indeed that's what happened.

If he was that close, why would it take 11 shots to incapacitate him? And how did he miss 5 times? I'm just saying you've got a trained shooter, close range....Brown may have been a sizeable guy, but unless his arms are freakishly long...

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Moot said:

If Michael Brown didn't have gun powder residue on him then wouldn't that discredit the officers story that he was trying to grab the officers gun when it went off?

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Not really. I would assume the bullet probably didn't hit anything - it wasn't pointed at anyone.. So there would not have been enough force in the gun powder to cause stippling on the body or wounds that Brown had. This would be an indicaition that he was not shot from close range as Johnson alleges.

Edit: As I read on...Roguenuke basically made the same point.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

JC_CT said:

Which witnesses described Brown as running towards Officer Wilson?

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"If “more than a dozen” witnesses back Wilson’s claim, that would outnumber the four witnesses who say that Wilson shot Brown as he was surrendering.

Johnson, who was with Brown in the store during the alleged strong-arm robbery, said that Brown was running away as he was shot. But he did not mention that incident in the convenience store when he told the media about the shooting.

Two other witnesses said that Brown was fleeing Wilson after their altercation in the cruiser. As Wilson was shooting, Brown turned around while holding his hands up to surrender, the witnesses have claimed.

A fourth witness has told the media that when Brown surrendered he fell down to his knees with his hands up.

One neighborhood eye-witness gave a different version of events.

The man was unwittingly recorded on a video posted to YouTube in which he is overheard saying that he saw Wilson firing and possibly missing. He said that he saw Brown turn around and then begin moving or running towards Wilson."
Report: Over A Dozen Witnesses Back Darren Wilson's Story | The Daily Caller

The man who was unwittingly recorded is most interesting since he was casually chatting with a gentleman explaining what had transpired, little did he know his words would be played over and over again in the media.

Thanks to the Progressives Today for paring it down from a 10:25 min to a 39 second piece

WARNING: This video is very graphic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prrydnTAly0

Here's there conversation-

#1 How’d he get from there to there?

#2 Because he ran, the police was still in the truck – cause he was like over the truck

{crosstalk}

#2 But him and the police was both in the truck, then he ran – the police got out and ran after him

{crosstalk}

#2 Then the next thing I know he coming back toward him cus - the police had his gun drawn already on him –

#1. Oh, the police got his gun

#2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I’m thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – but he kept coming toward him

{crosstalk}

#2 Police fired shots – the next thing I know – the police was missing

#1 The Police?

#2 The Police shot him

#1 Police?

#2 The next thing I know … I’m thinking … the dude started running … (garbled something about “he took it from him”)

JC_CT said:

Hi, new to this forum and making post #1...

HOWEVER...it doesn't take much to see the blatantly disguised racism on display here.

I especially love how eyewitness testimony is inherently black, I mean shoddy. Frickin thugs, maybe they should have thought about the socioeconomic consequences before they decided to be slaves for 300 years and second class citizens for another 150. But it's a frickin moot point, right? They have had 60 years (15%) to "get ahead." They must be some lazy "people," am i rite? rite? 'murica!

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What the hell?

Montecresto said:

What the hell?

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I had a few last night. But it reminds me of a post I saw earlier, which I can't find now...it was a discussion about what the word "thug" means, and someone posted an image of a black guy with baggy clothes and labeled him "thug" and then posted a picture of a black guy who was modeling a nice looking suit and labeled him "not a thug"...apparently implying that the solution to this country's racial inequities is that black people just need to buy nice suits.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

buck said:

You don't need clothes to view stippling near the wounds itself. A gunshot fired and hitting from as close as Johnson is claiming woudl show up without the clothes.

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Officer Wilson is also claiming the gun went off in close proximity to MB during a struggle inside the vehicle.

Josie: "So he goes in reverse back to them. He tries to get out of his car. They slam his door shut violently. I think he said Michael [Brown] did. Then he opens his car again and tries to get out and as he stands up Michael just bum rushes him, and just shoves him back into his car, punches him in the face and then of course Darren grabs for his gun and Michael grabs the gun. At one point he's got the gun totally turned against his hip and then he shoves it away and the gun goes off."

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http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/08/us/ferguson-brown-timeline/



"...Law enforcement investigators test the clothing and skin of people for GSR to determine if they were near a gun when it discharged. Gunshot residue can travel over 3–5 feet (0.9–1.5 meters) from the gun. At the farthest distance, only a few trace particles may be present...."
Gunshot residue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How far the gun powder residue can travel might also depend on the kind of gun used. NTL, Wilson is claiming that MB was in very close proximity when the first gun shot was fired and yet the coroner didn't find any gun residue on his hands or body. So regardless if he was wounded at that point there still should have been residue on MB if he was as close as Wilson is claiming.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Moot said:

It fits with cops second hand story that the MB and Johnson were trying to run away from him.


What happened when Michael Brown met Officer Darren Wilson - CNN.com

None of the witnesses said they saw Johnson or MB stop running and turn to taunt the cop with his gun pulled out. They all said that MB stopped and turned with his hands up and the autopsy confirms that the bullet wounds in his arm are consistent with wounds to arms held up.

That cop has got some explaining to do.

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The cop has already explained it and the evidence supports his version of events.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

JC_CT said:

Yes. You know, because both the shooter and the target were moving. Ridiculous, right? Black people say the darnedest things [when providing eye witness accounts of a homicide].

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People say the damndest things when they're lying.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Moot said:

Officer Wilson is also claiming the gun went off in close proximity to MB during a struggle inside the vehicle.

"...Law enforcement investigators test the clothing and skin of people for GSR to determine if they were near a gun when it discharged. Gunshot residue can travel over 3–5 feet (0.9–1.5 meters) from the gun. At the farthest distance, only a few trace particles may be present...."
Gunshot residue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How far the gun residue can travel might also depend on the kind of gun used. Ntl, Wilson is claiming that MB was in very close proximity when the first gun shot was fired and yet the coroner didn't find any gun residue on his body. Is Wilson lying?

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Or there could be simply other factors that came into play. For example, the coroner's report in question was the second one done, so the gunshot residue could simply have gotten washed/wiped off before they did the autopsy. Or it could have simply gotten on the clothes. Or he might not have been that close by the time the gun went off, which would not mean that there wasn't a struggle nor that Brown didn't go for the gun. There is nothing about not finding gunshot residue on Brown's body that proves that Wilson is lying or that Brown didn't go for his gun.

In fact, I'm wondering about whether there were any bruises or marks on Brown's neck, since Johnson claimed that Wilson grabbed Brown around the neck to yank him in the car. They concentrated on looking for evidence of a struggle by Brown but didn't mention any evidence of physical treatment against Brown by Wilson.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Meadowlark said:

"If “more than a dozen” witnesses back Wilson’s claim, that would outnumber the four witnesses who say that Wilson shot Brown as he was surrendering.

Johnson, who was with Brown in the store during the alleged strong-arm robbery, said that Brown was running away as he was shot. But he did not mention that incident in the convenience store when he told the media about the shooting.

Two other witnesses said that Brown was fleeing Wilson after their altercation in the cruiser. As Wilson was shooting, Brown turned around while holding his hands up to surrender, the witnesses have claimed.

A fourth witness has told the media that when Brown surrendered he fell down to his knees with his hands up.

One neighborhood eye-witness gave a different version of events.

The man was unwittingly recorded on a video posted to YouTube in which he is overheard saying that he saw Wilson firing and possibly missing. He said that he saw Brown turn around and then begin moving or running towards Wilson.

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So let me make sure I understand this correctly. You are basing your claim on:
1. A hypothetical situation that there is a plethora of witnesses in support of Wilson's version for which the only evidence whatsoever is a single rogue tweet by a reporter who has been on FMLA for six months.
2. Three eyewitnesses that we know actually exist and who all give similar accounts that directly contradict your assertion.
3. The transcript of the "game changer" video which doesn't actually match the what was said in the video, specifically the line "but he kept coming toward him" which was never said but to which you have taken the liberty of adding "or running."

Does that about cover it?

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

apdst said:

People say the damndest things when they're lying.

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And Wilson's a "people", too.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

Montecresto said:

And Wilson's a "people", too.

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People with an injury sustained in an assault and a spotless six year service record. Credibility is important.

Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

roguenuke said:

Or there could be simply other factors that came into play. For example, the coroner's report in question was the second one done, so the gunshot residue could simply have gotten washed/wiped off before they did the autopsy. Or it could have simply gotten on the clothes. Or he might not have been that close by the time the gun went off, which would not mean that there wasn't a struggle nor that Brown didn't go for the gun. There is nothing about not finding gunshot residue on Brown's body that proves that Wilson is lying or that Brown didn't go for his gun.

In fact, I'm wondering about whether there were any bruises or marks on Brown's neck, since Johnson claimed that Wilson grabbed Brown around the neck to yank him in the car. They concentrated on looking for evidence of a struggle by Brown but didn't mention any evidence of physical treatment against Brown by Wilson.

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Didn't Baden say no such bruises existed?