• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

BBC: African-American police officer: Ferguson 'heart wrenching'

The Mark

Sporadic insanity normal.
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
34,825
Reaction score
12,194
Location
Pennsylvania
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
BBC News - African-American police officer: Ferguson 'heart wrenching'

The killing of unarmed teenager Michael Brown led to days of protests in the town of Ferguson, Missouri, and amplified a rift between the town's African-American residents and the police in the region. But what about police officers who are also black?


The BBC's Aleem Maqbool spoke with a black female police officer who works in the St Louis area.


She discussed her take on the controversy in Ferguson and the realities of race on the force. Out of consideration for her job, she asked not to be identified.

Heard part of this on the radio while driving home from work this morning.

Thought it might be an interesting discussion starter.
 
Oh the right won't like this! She'll be discredited somehow, someway.
 
I read this earlier today. Her account is not surprising and, in fact, sounds very similar to how a lot of posters on DP speak about the black protesters and black people in general. That aspect of it is sad. However, I am happy that perspectives like hers are being covered by mainstream media more than have ever before. Marginalized groups are now getting more coverage and that's a good thing.
 
To me it sounded like it was less a racial thing and more a cultural disconnect.

That black persons happened to be on one side of that disconnect, in the main, seemed more incidental than the core reason.
 
Good article. I even think the questions were good. This is a major problem and it really does need to be addressed, but how?
 
Just wanted to add. How do you change an impression? Training can't do it, so how do you make the officers see what the people see and feel? Empathy is hard if not impossible to teach.
 
To me it sounded like it was less a racial thing and more a cultural disconnect.

That black persons happened to be on one side of that disconnect, in the main, seemed more incidental than the core reason.

The problem is there is no single core reason. It's like every other situation that involved humans. There are a variety of things that motivate a single individuals actions. There is a little bit of truth in just about everyone's perspective. The primary reason there seems to be such difficulty in resolution is that no one seems to be capable of acknowledging and then addressing things on a case by case basis. Everyone wants to paint with a single brush stroke. That never works.
 
Just wanted to add. How do you change an impression? Training can't do it, so how do you make the officers see what the people see and feel? Empathy is hard if not impossible to teach.

I think both the community and the police force would benefit by events that brought them together as individuals instead of cultural stereotypes. When you have an opportunity to see a person as a person instead of a thing it changes your perception
 
Last edited:
To me it sounded like it was less a racial thing and more a cultural disconnect.

That black persons happened to be on one side of that disconnect, in the main, seemed more incidental than the core reason.
The racial disconnect in Ferguson is much more than "incidental" and she articulated that quite clearly.
 
The racial disconnect in Ferguson is much more than "incidental" and she articulated that quite clearly.
Indeed.

But the key word is disconnect - it sounded like it was more a cultural disconnect - as in the mainly white police force flat out does not understand where the people who live in the mainly black community are coming from - rather than actual racism on the part of the police.

Perhaps that's effectively racism, but from what the interviewee was saying it sounded more like bad assumptions on the part of the police.

I found this bit especially telling:

What do you mean about your white colleagues perception of what has happened in Ferguson as being "far-fetched"?

[In Ferguson] I see a hurt group of individuals, and they see a bunch of unruly ignorant people.

They are treating it as if this community is full of an angry mob that wants to just tear up everything and they should be satisfied with what they had.

But the point is you shouldn't make such an assumption that they should be happy with what they had. They shouldn't. You wouldn't be.

I know Ferguson is not a group of ignorant uneducated people that are unruly. They are just a bunch of frustrated people who have tried and tried, but have been met with negative results.

You have a few apartment complexes in Ferguson, but there's a lot of neighbourhoods, well kept lawns. Where people work together as a community - they have jobs, work hard every day. They are probably exhausted, they're just trying to build [a] better life for families.
 
Indeed.

But the key word is disconnect - it sounded like it was more a cultural disconnect - as in the mainly white police force flat out does not understand where the people who live in the mainly black community are coming from - rather than actual racism on the part of the police.

Perhaps that's effectively racism, but from what the interviewee was saying it sounded more like bad assumptions on the part of the police.

I found this bit especially telling:
I agree, it does sound like the white police force doesn't understand. That lack of understanding, however, does not make their attitudes any less likely to be racism. It just means that their racism is rooted in ignorance - as most racism is. And yes, the white police force does seem to be making "bad assumptions" - assumptions that are racist.

What she describes is a group of white people perceiving white people as the embodiment of the same racist stereotypes of black people that have always existed in this country. Black people are ignorant, violent and unworthy of respect. It's racism and reducing it to just "ignorance" or "bad assumptions" just makes it sound better.
 
I agree, it does sound like the white police force doesn't understand. That lack of understanding, however, does not make their attitudes any less likely to be racism. It just means that their racism is rooted in ignorance - as most racism is. And yes, the white police force does seem to be making "bad assumptions" - assumptions that are racist.

What she describes is a group of white people perceiving white people as the embodiment of the same racist stereotypes of black people that have always existed in this country. Black people are ignorant, violent and unworthy of respect. It's racism and reducing it to just "ignorance" or "bad assumptions" just makes it sound better.
The problem is that if you start calling it racism, there are assumptions made about the people involved as well.

In this case they may even apply, in the main. But I dislike prompting ignorance through my word choices.
 
lucky for this woman she remains anonymous or else she should be thrown off the force for being an idiot. She thinks it's EASIER for a white cop to shoot and kill a black person?! It's fine if a know nothing protester or Al Sharpton to spew that garbage, but not a police officer. She should know better than to make such foolish comments, especially when it is one of her "brothers in arms" who could go to jail for the rest of his life. Let's hope SHE never has to deal with that same situation, and if so hopefully her fellow policemen will be more supportive than she is being.
 
The problem is that if you start calling it racism, there are assumptions made about the people involved as well.
1. "Assumptions" aren't being made. "Assumptions" are conclusions that are made without evidence or proof. Concluding that a group of white people perceiving a group of black people as the embodiment of historically racist stereotypes are racist themselves is not a conclusion made without evidence or proof. On the contrary, it is a conclusion made as the result of evidence/proof.

2. If a white man lynched a black man while calling him a nigger, would you assume he is a racist or would you withhold judgment just in case he was just an angry dude who likes rap music?
 
1. "Assumptions" aren't being made. "Assumptions" are conclusions that are made without evidence or proof. Concluding that a group of white people perceiving a group of black people as the embodiment of historically racist stereotypes are racist themselves is not a conclusion made without evidence or proof. On the contrary, it is a conclusion made as the result of evidence/proof.
Assumptions can be made based on incomplete evidence and/or facts. I agree that the police sound racist. But it's not clear whether that is based on flat-out racism or a more generalized ignorant beliefs that people from a given area are basically a riot waiting to happen. That was the point of the article in the OP, at least in part - assumptions possibly led to a police officer assuming he was in more danger than was actually the case.

I suppose I'm wondering whether we should simply....dismiss it as racism....or examine for additional and/or deeper problems.

2. If a white man lynched a black man while calling him a nigger, would you assume he is a racist or would you withhold judgment just in case he was just an angry dude who likes rap music?
I'd say he was racist based on the evidence, with a slight possibility that he was mentally deranged.
 
lucky for this woman she remains anonymous or else she should be thrown off the force for being an idiot. She thinks it's EASIER for a white cop to shoot and kill a black person?! It's fine if a know nothing protester or Al Sharpton to lookspew that garbage, but not a police officer. She should know better than to make such foolish comments, especially when it is one of her "brothers in arms" who could go to jail for the rest of his life. Let's hope SHE never has to deal with that same situation, and if so hopefully her fellow policemen will be more supportive than she is being.



Tsk, tsk, tsk. Maybe you should reread the article and put what she said in context.
 
Assumptions can be made based on incomplete evidence and/or facts. I agree that the police sound racist. But it's not clear whether that is based on flat-out racism or a more generalized ignorant beliefs that people from a given area are basically a riot waiting to happen. That was the point of the article in the OP, at least in part - assumptions possibly led to a police officer assuming he was in more danger than was actually the case.

I suppose I'm wondering whether we should simply....dismiss it as racism....or examine for additional and/or deeper problems.
To call it racism is not to "dismiss" it as racism. I think your discomfort with the use of the word "racism" may be rooted in a false perception of how people, including the woman from the article, come to the conclusion that racism is the primary issue. You describe that conclusion as if it is one that has not been come to through educated analysis, but instead through surface analysis. You question whether or not we should "examine for additional and/or deeper problems", but what you fail to see is that some of us have already completed that examination and have, as a result, come to the conclusion that it is, in fact, racism. Your assumption that perceptions of racism are not the product of thoughtful examination is the problem.
 
Here is the poor innocent "Victim"
 

Attachments

  • 10569104_10152312509651700_4493175970924335930_n.jpg
    10569104_10152312509651700_4493175970924335930_n.jpg
    44.2 KB · Views: 14
lucky for this woman she remains anonymous or else she should be thrown off the force for being an idiot. She thinks it's EASIER for a white cop to shoot and kill a black person?! It's fine if a know nothing protester or Al Sharpton to spew that garbage, but not a police officer. She should know better than to make such foolish comments, especially when it is one of her "brothers in arms" who could go to jail for the rest of his life. Let's hope SHE never has to deal with that same situation, and if so hopefully her fellow policemen will be more supportive than she is being.
`
RE; Al Sharpton -

Al Sharpton Talks Tough To Blacks In Ferguson, But Fox Mostly Doesn't Care

Rev. Al Sharpton delivered a nuanced eulogy Monday at the funeral for Michael Brown, a fiery speech that was one part a critique of overzealous policing and one part a candid commentary on problems in the black community. Quick: Which part do you think Fox News played up?

Never mind that there was plenty in Sharpton's stemwinder that should have pleased Fox's biggest star, Bill O'Reilly, who for years has harangued black people to eradicate what he deems as social and cultural ills in their community.

"Blackness has never been about being a gangster or thug," Sharpton said in the eulogy for the 18-year-old who was killed by a white police officer earlier this month in Ferguson, Mo. "Blackness was no matter how low we was pushed down, we rose up anyhow."

He continued with that theme, even denouncing what he described as "ghetto pity parties."...​

Not white enough for some people I guess.
 
Only two conservatives showed up for comment, and only one spoke to the op. this is what happens when something pops up that pokes holes in your meme. Too bad people are driven by ideology instead of justice.
 
To call it racism is not to "dismiss" it as racism. I think your discomfort with the use of the word "racism" may be rooted in a false perception of how people, including the woman from the article, come to the conclusion that racism is the primary issue. You describe that conclusion as if it is one that has not been come to through educated analysis, but instead through surface analysis. You question whether or not we should "examine for additional and/or deeper problems", but what you fail to see is that some of us have already completed that examination and have, as a result, come to the conclusion that it is, in fact, racism. Your assumption that perceptions of racism are not the product of thoughtful examination is the problem.
I'm perfectly fine with examining a situation and seeing racism where it exists.

What I'm halfway worried about is how people who don't want to/have the time to do that examination may respond.

I just think that there are preconceptions attached to the accusation of racism in many person's minds, and that because of this, we must be careful when applying it to a situation.

That said, it certainly sounds in this case that if not racism, there was at the least bigotry against a group of people based on
The area they lived in.
The tendencies of some individuals in that area (crime rate, etc).

Based on the interview in the OP, I'd say that the majority of the police force had some kind of institutionalized misconceptions which were probably passed on to the new officers and such over the years.

The key problem is lack of communication between the police and the people in the area.

Without that communication, we get this Ferguson situation, where assumptions are made on one or both sides (probably both) and it denigrates into a shouting match, or even violence (although I don't think the violence was what the people in Ferguson wanted, except for a few outliers).
 
Back
Top Bottom