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ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209:785]

Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

Amanda1858 said:
So, you don't believe Brown tried to take Wilson's gun away from him?
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In the police cruiser,
Isn't it possible that Brown saw him reaching for the gun, grabbed it or the wrist of the cop and it discharged in the car?
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

Amanda1858 said:
So, you don't believe Brown tried to take Wilson's gun away from him?
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In my heart of hearts, no.

The gun would have been on the officer's right side (away from Brown). Brown would have needed to cram a good part of his torso- which appears to have been more Pillsbury Doughboy than budding "bama line backer through the window to try to get to the weapon.

Though I cant prove my theory, my theory is that Brown pulled away, the officer pulled in and then the pumped up Brown struck him several times ( "Hey, check me out, the punk clerk got slapped, and I took his smokes. Now the punk officer just got slapped down too- I am on a roll")

Brown then sauntered off after humiliating the alpha male officer. Things then went really down hill.... .
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

j-mac said:
Who knows? Maybe they are sloppy....But what makes you think you should be privy to evidence before the grand jury?
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I don't, just that paperwork (particularly if going to be used against an individual at grand jury) must be properly and fully filled out. Excon said they weren't trying to hide anything, to which I responded that they can then fill out the paperwork completely. That's it. I didn't say I was privy to view it before it went to Grand Jury, merely that it needs to be appropriately filled out. Sloppiness on the part of the government, particularly where it concerns government force against the rights and liberties of the individual, is unacceptable.
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

j-mac said:
Determination that Brown, or his friend were 'un-armed' was not made by Wilson at that point. Remember, this was immediately after his confrontation in the police cruiser where Brown allegedly broke his eye socket, and tried to disarm the officer.
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Why would he supposedly be going for Wilson's gun if he already had one?



j-mac said:
There is nothing to indicate that he wasn't an even tempered good cop. Nor that he responded out of protocol in apprehending what was at the moment a felon that had assaulted the officer, tried to get his gun, and was by that time being broadcast as a fitting description of the man involved in a strong arm robbery. IOW, a dangerous suspect. I believe he absolutely acted accordingly.
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In 1995 the Supreme Court ruled that it was illegal for police anywhere to use their guns in a foot pursuit of a felon.




j-mac said:
I am exactly the same size and weight...It takes me about 4 seconds to cover 40 feet.
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Now stop turn and get running at full speed again get shot five times and drop within 35 feet of where you started... Fourty feet is too short maybe more like fifty five feet..
How long do you think it takes for a professional policeman to holster their weapon and draw their Taser?




j-mac said:
Not sure he even had one, nor that after having a suspect try to gain access to his gun it would be the correct call to use it if he did....The goal for a cop is to return home safely after his/her shift, not take unnecessary risk to his own life...Maybe that would work in the movies but we are talking about real life.
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All cops carry Tasers it's part of the uniform equipment belt. There would be at least one more in the cruiser.




j-mac said:
Now you are changing what I said, the only reason for you to do that is that you know I may be correct, and that would destroy what you are building here...Now, I don't know if he had a taser, or not, but neither do you, and you need to temper your own out of control rhetoric about things you don't know.
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Why?
I am offering my opinion and defending it on an internet site and I'm not breaking any of the rules here.
Just like you .




j-mac said:
Prove it...Show me the standard equipment issue for the Ferguson police force.
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Prove to me that they are not. Tasers are standard equipment on all police forces.
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

j-mac said:
Yeah, a grazing wound I don't think would make your body "jerk", and further eyewitness testimony is not very reliable this much is known...As far as Baden's autopsy, he couldn't determine which direction, only that there was no GPR on the skin which means it was from more than 18 inches away. It could have easily been as a result from the struggle in the cruiser, but that is just my own speculation at this point.
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Could have been ...Could not have been too.
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

Fenton said:
" Unarmed " ?

What difference does that make ?

Two WHITE Texas A & M students were beat within inches of their lives ( one DID die because of the beating he received ) at a MacDonalds by a group of UNARMED black thugs.

I mean you keep bringing that nonsense up but its irrelevant.
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There were well over 100 "thugs" as you like to call black teens and the student was killed as the result of a car crash miles from the fight.

Un-armed means just that. Without a lethal weapon.
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

Fenton said:
Ridiculous.

A Black thug attacked a White innocent bystander in New York a while back with a punch to the head.

The Man died

What are you talking about ?
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Was the man a trained cop with a Taser who was chasing him?
That's what I am talking about.
You are talking about something else.
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

Cryptic said:
In my heart of hearts, no.

The gun would have been on the officer's right side (away from Brown). Brown would have needed to cram a good part of his torso- which appears to have been more Pillsbury Doughboy than budding "bama line backer through the window to try to get to the weapon.

Though I cant prove my theory, my theory is that Brown pulled away, the officer pulled in and then the pumped up Brown struck him several times ( "Hey, check me out, the punk clerk got slapped, and I took his smokes. Now the punk officer just got slapped down too- I am on a roll")

Brown then sauntered off after humiliating the alpha male officer. Things then went really down hill.... .
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If the cop pulled the pistol, and raised it to point it at Brown, Brown could have seen the cop's hand and gun, grabbed at it and there could be the discharge of the gun into the dash or other area of the car. Brown was probably defending himself from being shot point blank. I know if I were close to someone and they pulled a pistol on me, I'd grab for the hand or the gun as a defense maneuver.
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

j-mac said:
Wouldn't have to be. My stride at 6'4" is approximately 36 inches at a walk. When running that is nearly doubled to just under 70 inches. 35 feet is 420 inches, which using my stride that equals 6 full running steps. and took about 4 seconds....
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Have you put a stopwatch on your holster and draw time yet?
Get back to me when you have those results.
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

tres borrachos said:
I can express opinions on the internet too. I can say that I think every one of us will have a pet unicorn by Christmas, and Barack Obama is having an affair with Miley Cyrus, and anyone who buys a red car is sexually repressed. And people will rightly call me out on it, and of course none of them are accusations against a real person that are unfounded.
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...and if your claims sound ridiculous no one will say a word to you.
It seems like everyone here is trying to stop me from expressing my logical opinions of what I believe happened.
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

tres borrachos said:
Well, I think you must be responsible for some unsolved murders in Colorado, because there have been some and you live there. Makes sense, doesn't it?
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I don't chase un-armed kids with a gun.
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

Cryptic said:
Well, it was a little more than simply "shop lifting". Strong arm robbery (store incident) is not a capital offense either.

What the rap lyrics, the strong arm robbery and sauntering down the middle of the street do suggest is that Brown could be aggressive and was an alpha male.

My theory is that when the alpha male officer gave a curt order, then cut back close to him and grabbed him after he was very slow to comply with a lawful order, the pumped up Brown pushed back and struck the officer (just bitch slapped away a clerk, now I bitch slapped away an officer).

While being struck, the officer reached for his weapon. Brown continued to saunter away ("punk" was dealt with). The officer then ordered Brown to stop, and another series of posturing and threats occured which resulted in the enraged officer firing at Brown based on a pretense (he did threaten to come back at me).
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Sounds logical and believable... I believe that may be pretty close to what actually happened.I'll bet though that his tune changed after he had been shot a few times and he DID surrender before the fatal shot to the top of his head.
That's what makes it murder IMHO.
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

AJiveMan said:
In the police cruiser,
Isn't it possible that Brown saw him reaching for the gun, grabbed it or the wrist of the cop and it discharged in the car?
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Sounds a lot more plausible than Brown reaching into the SUV window and going for a holstered gun on the drivers right hip doesn't it.
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

tres borrachos said:
It doesn't matter.
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Then feel free to accuse me of whatever strikes you fancy.
Ridiculous accusations go unheeded.
When i call Wilson a murderer everyone gets all excited because they know fully well that there is a good chance that I am correct .
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

Buck Ewer said:
Then feel free to accuse me of whatever strikes you fancy.
Ridiculous accusations go unheeded.
When i call Wilson a murderer everyone gets all excited because they know fully well that there is a good chance that I am correct .
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I don't know there is a good chance that you're correct. In fact, Wilson's record would indicate that you aren't correct.
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

Buck Ewer said:
Sounds a lot more plausible than Brown reaching into the SUV window and going for a holstered gun on the drivers right hip doesn't it.
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Sometimes you just need to think of the situation and what might have, or probably happened.

If Brown resisted when the cop tugged his shirt, and if Brown saw the pistol coming his way, he did the most logical thing, probably socked the cop in the face and began to run away, then the cop, in a fit of anger drew down on Brown and executed him, because he got socked. I can picture it in my mind.

Of course, there's no record of what exactly happened because the police report was basically all blank, no account from Wilson at all.
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

AJiveMan said:
If the cop pulled the pistol, and raised it to point it at Brown, Brown could have seen the cop's hand and gun, grabbed at it and there could be the discharge of the gun into the dash or other area of the car. Brown was probably defending himself from being shot point blank. I know if I were close to someone and they pulled a pistol on me, I'd grab for the hand or the gun as a defense maneuver.
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I think that is also a possibility- thoogh Brown's actions may not be self defense in the true sense of the word. Consider these two scenarios:

Scenario I
-Brown, a pumped up alpha male is walking down the middle of the street after just "slapping down" an "adversary". He has a friend with him, and wants to continue impressing his friend with just how alpha is really is
-Brown strikes police officer (slaps down) after officer tries to grab him
-Officer points weapon at Brown -probably not truly needed, but justified (stop attacking me)
-Brown attempts to grab weapon, resulting in officer firing it

Or,
Scenario II
- Officer points weapon at Brown simply for refusing his lawful order. Brown thinks he is going to be killed and tries to grab the weapon.
- Possible, but there is nothing in the officer's back ground to suggest the would do this.

In contrast, there are elements in Brown's past to suggest he would try to slap down a "punk" (store clerk got assaulted)- espescially if he was trying to impress a friend. Thus, I would go for scenario I

Or.... the officer never fired the weapon from the police cruiser?
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

Amanda1858 said:
You are the 4th person that I've seen post about the 2 teens who were attacked at that McDonald's in Texas. Has there been anything else since that incident in 2012?
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The parents of the two kids that lost their lives sued McDonalds and won.....I think.

ONE thug was charged in the beating and he received 90 days in jail.
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

Buck Ewer said:
I'll bet though that his tune changed after he had been shot a few times and he DID surrender before the fatal shot to the top of his head.
That's what makes it murder IMHO.
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I agree completely- though I may go for manslaughter if it can be shown that Brown really did start back towards the officer. Also, the more I think about this, the more I believe that it never would have went that far if Brown's friend was not there.

I really think Brown was trying to impress his friend by sauntering down the middle of the street after "slapping down the "punk" clerk", refusing to comply with Wilson's order (however curt and aggressive it was given), and resisting when Wilson grabbed him.

With each "alpha male success", Brown got more confident. He just did not realize to what level the humiliated alpha male officer would pursue the "macho contest"
 
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Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

AJiveMan said:
Sometimes you just need to think of the situation and what might have, or probably happened.

If Brown resisted when the cop tugged his shirt, and if Brown saw the pistol coming his way, he did the most logical thing, probably socked the cop in the face and began to run away, then the cop, in a fit of anger drew down on Brown and executed him, because he got socked. I can picture it in my mind.

Of course, there's no record of what exactly happened because the police report was basically all blank, no account from Wilson at all.
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You've routinely refered to the Cops as " Pigs .


So if there was a account from the officer would you even beleive it ?
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

Cryptic said:
I think that is also a possibility- thoogh Brown's actions may not be self defense in the true sense of the word. Consider these two scenarios:

Scenario I
-Brown, a pumped up alpha male is walking down the middle of the street after just "slapping down" an "adversary". He has a friend with him, and wants to continue impressing his friend with just how alpha is really is
-Brown strikes police officer (slaps down) after officer tries to grab him
-Officer points weapon at Brown -probably not truly needed, but justified (stop attacking me)
-Brown attempts to grab weapon, resulting in officer firing it

Or,
Scenario II
- Officer points weapon at Brown simply for refusing his lawful order. Brown thinks he is going to be killed and tries to grab the weapon.
- Possible, but there is nothing in the officer's back ground to suggest the would do this.

In contrast, there are elements in Brown's past to suggest he would try to slap down a "punk" (store clerk got assaulted)- espescially if he was trying to impress a friend. Thus, I would go for scenario I

Or.... the officer never fired the weapon from the police cruiser?
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Reportedly, one shot was fired inside of the cruiser.
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

tres borrachos said:
I don't know there is a good chance that you're correct. In fact, Wilson's record would indicate that you aren't correct.
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Even good cops can make really bad decisions when they let their emotions get the better of them ...all it takes is just a few seconds.
I believe that's exactly what happened here.
But that is no excuse for murder. That kid will be dead forever.
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

Buck Ewer said:
All the evidence points to a pissed off, out of control cop ready to exact a lethal vengeance on an un-armed black kid who disrespected him and caused him to bump his head on his own car door.
All the evidence shows that the unarmed black kid was executed as he lay face down in the street with a final shot to the top of his head.
Murder.
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Out of control cop? you mean officer wilsong who has a perfect record of conduct.... does Mike Brown have a perfect record?
 
Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

Buck Ewer said:
Sounds a lot more plausible than Brown reaching into the SUV window and going for a holstered gun on the drivers right hip doesn't it.
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Not really, because someone trained in using a firearm doesn't put their finger on the trigger as they pull it out of their holster. The finger rests along the barrel of the gun above the trigger. You don't put your finger on the trigger until it's pointed at the intended target.

It's more likely that a person with no training would grab the gun and put their finger on the trigger.

In your version of the story the police officer is not under any duress and would have no reason to unholster their pistol the wrong way.
 
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