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Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

Jack Fabulous

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St. Louis police fatally shoot knife-wielding suspect | Fox News

St. Louis police fatally shot a knife-wielding suspect Tuesday after they said the suspect refused to put the weapon down and tried to attack them, Fox2Now.com reported.

The incident took place about 2.6 miles from the Ferguson protests, and occurred at about 12:30 p.m. The suspect reportedly entered a convenience store and showed the store owner his knife and the two got into a dispute.

St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson told Fox2Now.com that the man yelled at officers “shoot me now” several times. This account was reportedly backed up by several witnesses.

When it rains it pours...

This one, on the surface, looks pretty cut and dried but in light of what is happening there already I fear that it will only stoke the fires.
 
Would a stun gun have subdued the man with a knife?

Stun Gun, Flashlight Stun Gun, Rechargeable Stun Gun, Mini Stun Gun, Pink Stun Gun & More, Boise ID



PETALUMA, Calif. (AP) - Authorities say a naked man who was running on a Northern California freeway resisted an officer's attempt to arrest him and had to be subdued with a stun gun.

The California Highway Patrol said 25-year-old Alexander Leonard of Hawthorne, California was taken into custody Sunday morning on suspicion of driving under the influence of drugs and resisting arrest.

Sgt. Ross Ingels told the San Francisco Chronicle (Naked suspect blocking Hwy 101 in Petaluma gets Tasered, arrested - SFGate ) that Leonard was driving erratically in northbound lanes of Highway 101 in Petaluma before crashing into a guardrail. He said Leonard then got out of a rented pickup truck, took off his clothes and ran on the freeway.

Ingels said when Leonard refused an officer's demand to stop, the officer used a stun gun on him.



CHP use stun gun to subdue naked man running on freeway


The problem may be the police training. Police are not taught to use non-lethal means of subduing upset or belligerent individuals.





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He yelled at officers 'shoot me now' several times. Well, they obliged him. You don't yell 'shoot me now' at anyone who is holding a gun pointed at you, unless you want to be shot now.
 
He yelled at officers 'shoot me now' several times. Well, they obliged him. You don't yell 'shoot me now' at anyone who is holding a gun pointed at you, unless you want to be shot now.
The result would then indicate that the man with the knife was in control of the situation. Exactly the opposite of what is supposed to happen.
 
Would a stun gun have subdued the man with a knife?

Stun Gun, Flashlight Stun Gun, Rechargeable Stun Gun, Mini Stun Gun, Pink Stun Gun & More, Boise ID



PETALUMA, Calif. (AP) - Authorities say a naked man who was running on a Northern California freeway resisted an officer's attempt to arrest him and had to be subdued with a stun gun.

The California Highway Patrol said 25-year-old Alexander Leonard of Hawthorne, California was taken into custody Sunday morning on suspicion of driving under the influence of drugs and resisting arrest.

Sgt. Ross Ingels told the San Francisco Chronicle (Naked suspect blocking Hwy 101 in Petaluma gets Tasered, arrested - SFGate ) that Leonard was driving erratically in northbound lanes of Highway 101 in Petaluma before crashing into a guardrail. He said Leonard then got out of a rented pickup truck, took off his clothes and ran on the freeway.

Ingels said when Leonard refused an officer's demand to stop, the officer used a stun gun on him.



CHP use stun gun to subdue naked man running on freeway


The problem may be the police training. Police are not taught to use non-lethal means of subduing upset or belligerent individuals.





//

The difference is, that man wasn't armed, and stun guns don't always work to stop someone.
 
The result would then indicate that the man with the knife was in control of the situation. Exactly the opposite of what is supposed to happen.

He was in control of the situation. Anyone who illegally wields a weapon when police have guns pointed at them is in control of the situation. It's up to them if they want to be shot by the police.
 
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One less idiot, I can't understand why people get upset when we lose another would-be loser? Let's just hope we got him before he did any breeding. ;)

Tim-
 
The difference is, that man wasn't armed, and stun guns don't always work to stop someone.

". LOUIS, MO (KTVI) – St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson says officers warned a suspect multiple times to put down his weapon before they shot and killed him.

The shooting happened around 1 p.m. Tuesday at McLaran and Riverview. Police say the suspect tried to rob the Six Star Market convenience store with a knife. Chief Sam Dotson said the store owner let the man leave the store. A St. Louis City Alderwoman witnessed the man walking erratically around and called police.

When officers arrived, the suspect refused to put down weapon despite multiple verbal command by police. Chief Sam Dotson says the man yelled at officers “shoot me now” several times. Witnesses also confirmed what the man said.

Dotson says the man continued to refuse the officer’s commands, approached within three to four feet of them with the knife in an attack posture."

St. Louis City police shoot, kill knife-wielding suspect | FOX2now.com


So there is some reason the police could not have tried a stun gun before using lethal force? Seems like poor police training.





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". LOUIS, MO (KTVI) – St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson says officers warned a suspect multiple times to put down his weapon before they shot and killed him.

The shooting happened around 1 p.m. Tuesday at McLaran and Riverview. Police say the suspect tried to rob the Six Star Market convenience store with a knife. Chief Sam Dotson said the store owner let the man leave the store. A St. Louis City Alderwoman witnessed the man walking erratically around and called police.

When officers arrived, the suspect refused to put down weapon despite multiple verbal command by police. Chief Sam Dotson says the man yelled at officers “shoot me now” several times. Witnesses also confirmed what the man said.

Dotson says the man continued to refuse the officer’s commands, approached within three to four feet of them with the knife in an attack posture."

St. Louis City police shoot, kill knife-wielding suspect | FOX2now.com


So there is some reason they could not have tried a stun gun before using lethal force? Seems like poor police training.





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He had a knife in his hand, approaching police and was within 3 to 4 feet of police when they shot him. I would have shot him too. A stun gun is not reliable enough in that situation.

Is there a reason that the guy couldn't have dropped the knife when the police repeatedly asked him to?
 
No one is saying officers should not do their job...not even that they should not apply deadly force.

The question is whether police officers use deadly force more than warranted. No one can argue that a person wielding a weapon is an aggressive manor is not a threat to life and property.

The question is the increasing number of shooting around the country that are now being scrutinized for their correctness.

An interesting statistic came out of the LAPD recently. Officers with using body cameras has 90% dropped in complaints against officers.

This is a win-win. The officers have less false claims and Officers have their encounters with the public in film.

Dallas Tx is investigating 10 recent officer shootings, is requesting two man patrols, two DAs, and that officers wear body cameras.

The Feds are gonna pull back funding and giving of military hardware to local PDs.

If anything good comes out of this whole freaking mess, maybe we all will take a closer look at the men and women we employ to keep our public safety.
 
No one is saying officers should not do their job...not even that they should not apply deadly force.

The question is whether police officers use deadly force more than warranted. No one can argue that a person wielding a weapon is an aggressive manor is not a threat to life and property.

The question is the increasing number of shooting around the country that are now being scrutinized for their correctness.

An interesting statistic came out of the LAPD recently. Officers with using body cameras has dropped complaints against officers.
This is a win-win. The officers have less false claims and Officers have their encounters with the public in film.

Dallas Tx is investigating 10 recent officer shootings, is requesting two man patrols, two DAs, and that officers wear body cameras.

The Feds are gonna pull back funding and giving of military hardware to local PDs.

If anything good comes out of this whole freaking mess, maybe we all will take a closer look at the men and women we employ to keep our public safety.

I don't disagree with this, but this thread isn't an instance of police using unwarranted deadly force. If someone is within 3 to 4 feet of you about to attack you with a knife, you take out the threat. A taser/stun gun is not a reliable means to take out the threat in that situation. A taser/stun gun is really only good for subduing a non-life threatening, resisting suspect.
 
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Dude comes at me with a knife, he gets shot.

Where's the misunderstanding?
 
He had a knife in his hand, approaching police and was within 3 to 4 feet of police when they shot him. I would have shot him too. A stun gun is not reliable enough in that situation.

Is there a reason that the guy couldn't have dropped the knife when the police repeatedly asked him to?

The reason the guy could not drop the knife was he was upset and belligerent.


Is there a reason the policeman could not have drawn his taser when he was 10 feet from the man with the knife? The man with the knife had been brandishing the knife for several minutes, without hurting anyone.

Why couldn't the policeman have backed up a couple step,s and used his taser? What taser training had he been given?


Page 28 is about allowing training for private police security.

http://www.slmpd.org/images/boardminutes.pdf


I don't see the money for Tasers for Police officers, or money for taser training for Police Ofrficers.




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The reason the guy could not drip the knife was he was upset and belligerent.


Is there a reason the policeman could not have drawn his taser when he was 10 feet from the man with the knife? The man with the knife had been brandishing the knife for several minute3s, without hurting anyone.

Why couldn't the policeman back up a couple steps and us his taser? What taser training had he been given?


Page 28 is about allowing training for private police security.

http://www.slmpd.org/images/boardminutes.pdf


I don't see the money for Tasers for Police officers, or money for taser training for Police Ofrficers.




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When they are within taser range, a taser is not a reliable means to stop an armed threat. Many people can withstand a taser shot like nothing happened.

A guy comes at police with a knife, police shoot the guy and he dies. I don't see how that can possibly be misconstrued as the police are in the wrong here.
 
Looks to me like a legitimate shooting. Given the evidence so far, I would have done the same as the officers. In fact, I have (something I don't normally discuss often if at all) - with more distance between us - a number of times. When an aggressor was approaching me with a weapon, and refused to follow orders to drop the weapon and retreat or lay down, I shot with deadly results. All this was in a military environment on a battlefield, but our cops face the same life threatening situations in our streets, and should be able to protect themselves. If a person hasn't been in that position, they cannot accurately understand the why's surrounding the actions taken.

Again, looks like a legitimate shooting to me.
 
Looks to me like a legitimate shooting. Given the evidence so far, I would have done the same as the officers. In fact, I have (something I don't normally discuss often if at all) - with more distance between us - a number of times. When an aggressor was approaching me with a weapon, and refused to follow orders to drop the weapon and retreat or lay down, I shot with deadly results. All this was in a military environment on a battlefield, but our cops face the same life threatening situations in our streets, and should be able to protect themselves. If a person hasn't been in that position, they cannot accurately understand the why's surrounding the actions taken.

Again, looks like a legitimate shooting to me.

Both are starting to look that way.
 
The reason the guy could not drop the knife was he was upset and belligerent.


Is there a reason the policeman could not have drawn his taser when he was 10 feet from the man with the knife? The man with the knife had been brandishing the knife for several minutes, without hurting anyone.

Why couldn't the policeman have backed up a couple step,s and used his taser? What taser training had he been given?


Page 28 is about allowing training for private police security.

http://www.slmpd.org/images/boardminutes.pdf


I don't see the money for Tasers for Police officers, or money for taser training for Police Ofrficers.




//

Tazers are not always effective.

So, YOU have a highly agitated guy, brandishing a knife, refusing your commands, he may be on something ( you dont know ) and you have the choice of maybe pissing him off even more with a tazer and losing the 2 or 3 seconds needed to pull your pistol and stop the threat before he plunges that knife in your neck, or do you defend yourself properly ?

Cops deserve to go home to their families every night too.
 
When they are within taser range, a taser is not a reliable means to stop an armed threat. Many people can withstand a taser shot like nothing happened.

A guy comes at police with a knife, police shoot the guy and he dies. I don't see how that can possibly be misconstrued as the police are in the wrong here.

How long does it take to fire a taser? Maybe there should be a rule that any police officer should have his taser drawn when going to a knife report. A taser can go 16 Feet.

Before a policeman kills someone, there should be a duty to at least attempt to taser the individual

Many police are trained to go for the kill with little provocation. The training should be improved to include non-lethal attempts to subdue a belligerent individual.

Some branches of Aiklido teach protecting oneself, while discharging anger from the individual. "Why are you upset?" "Why are you angry?" Get the guy talking, working out his anger or fears.


When a policeman is asked, "Why did you use lethal force on this individual?"

The Officer should be able to explain how he tried to use a taser at first.


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How long does it take to fire a taser? Maybe there should be a rule that any police officer should have his taser drawn when going to a knife report. A taser can go 16 Feet.

Before a policeman kills someone, there should be a duty to attempt to taser the individual

Many police are trained to go for the kill with little provocation. The training should be improved to include non-lethal attempts to subdue a belligerent individual.

Some branches of Aiklido teach protecting oneself, while discharging anger from the individual. "Why are you upset?" "Why are you angry?" Get the guy talking, working out his anger or fears.



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You are armchair quarterbacking and not thinking this through. If the taser doesn't work, a person can run at you 16' in a second. You don't try the taser first, and then if that doesn't work draw your gun in that situation where an armed person is coming at you.
 
St. Louis police fatally shoot knife-wielding suspect | Fox News



When it rains it pours...

This one, on the surface, looks pretty cut and dried but in light of what is happening there already I fear that it will only stoke the fires.
that's too bad....we had a similar one up in Toronto this year...guy got onto a bus with a little knife...ordered everyone off....cops shot him....

These people are supposed to be trained in negotiation...it seems lately fear is over riding their better judgement...

hard thing later for a good cop to live with...maybe not so hard for someone unbalanced who shouldn't be in that profession to begin with
 
Both are starting to look that way.

Agreed. Especially since the medical injuries reported to be sustained by the officer in Ferguson could have been life threatening, if not perceived to be so at the time by the officer that shot Brown. We'll just have to wait and see if those medical injury reports of the officer turn out to be accurate.
 
that's too bad....we had a similar one up in Toronto this year...guy got onto a bus with a little knife...ordered everyone off....cops shot him....

These people are supposed to be trained in negotiation...it seems lately fear is over riding their better judgement...

hard thing later for a good cop to live with...maybe not so hard for someone unbalanced who shouldn't be in that profession to begin with

Why should we be sympathetic to the criminal in these situations? Don't get on the bus with a knife and order everyone off if you don't want to be shot by police. I just can't understand the rooting for the bad guy in these situations.
 
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