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Convicted Child Molester Suing After Being Raped in Garfield County Jail[W:186]

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I may be in the minority here, but from my perspective if the state is going to create institutions within which it will house those who have committed crimes against society then those institutions should be governed by the laws of that society. If an inmate, regardless of how heinous the crime, is assaulted while in the care and custody of a state institution then that state institution bears some responsibility for the assault if the victim did not invite or otherwise cause the assault. It should be no different a matter of principle than if a citizen walked into a police station and the custodians of that station allowed circumstances whereby that citizen was assaulted. To believe otherwise is to believe that a sentence handed down by a jury and judge is insufficient punishment and anyone convicted is no longer entitled to human dignity.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I may be in the minority here, but from my perspective if the state is going to create institutions within which it will house those who have committed crimes against society then those institutions should be governed by the laws of that society. If an inmate, regardless of how heinous the crime, is assaulted while in the care and custody of a state institution then that state institution bears some responsibility for the assault if the victim did not invite or otherwise cause the assault. It should be no different a matter of principle than if a citizen walked into a police station and the custodians of that station allowed circumstances whereby that citizen was assaulted. To believe otherwise is to believe that a sentence handed down by a jury and judge is insufficient punishment and anyone convicted is no longer entitled to human dignity.
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I can't speak for anyone else, but I agree with you. :)
 
CanadaJohn said:
I may be in the minority here, but from my perspective if the state is going to create institutions within which it will house those who have committed crimes against society then those institutions should be governed by the laws of that society. If an inmate, regardless of how heinous the crime, is assaulted while in the care and custody of a state institution then that state institution bears some responsibility for the assault if the victim did not invite or otherwise cause the assault. It should be no different a matter of principle than if a citizen walked into a police station and the custodians of that station allowed circumstances whereby that citizen was assaulted. To believe otherwise is to believe that a sentence handed down by a jury and judge is insufficient punishment and anyone convicted is no longer entitled to human dignity.
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I think most people would agree with you. The question is, how do you fix it when a prisoner rapes his cell mate.
 
tres borrachos said:
I think most people would agree with you. The question is, how do you fix it when a prisoner rapes his cell mate.
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There is some responsibility held by the inmate himself - the victim, I mean. If, as in this case, solitary confinement was offered and refused, the victim holds some responsibility based on his knowing his crimes and the reaction of the prison population to such crimes. However, prison authorities are not devoid of experience with the prisoners he was being placed with. As an example, if I for instance happened to find myself imprisoned, I wouldn't suddenly become a rapist of men simply because a child molester was put in my cell with me. Prison authorities know in detail who they're dealing with and who is dangerous in this way.

Nothing is fail safe and nobody is perfect. If the prison can show that they did everything procedurally and otherwise to provide protection to this inmate, I don't see a problem - this is, after all, a hostile environment filled with people prone not to follow laws and rules. I'm just opposed to suggestions that he molested children so he deserves to be raped - that, seems to me, is being no better than the criminal.
 
CanadaJohn said:
There is some responsibility held by the inmate himself - the victim, I mean. If, as in this case, solitary confinement was offered and refused, the victim holds some responsibility based on his knowing his crimes and the reaction of the prison population to such crimes. However, prison authorities are not devoid of experience with the prisoners he was being placed with. As an example, if I for instance happened to find myself imprisoned, I wouldn't suddenly become a rapist of men simply because a child molester was put in my cell with me. Prison authorities know in detail who they're dealing with and who is dangerous in this way.

Nothing is fail safe and nobody is perfect. If the prison can show that they did everything procedurally and otherwise to provide protection to this inmate, I don't see a problem - this is, after all, a hostile environment filled with people prone not to follow laws and rules. I'm just opposed to suggestions that he molested children so he deserves to be raped - that, seems to me, is being no better than the criminal.
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I agree with all of that. But the suggestion on how to fix it is......?
 
tres borrachos said:
I agree with all of that. But the suggestion on how to fix it is......?
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Fortunately, I've never been anywhere near a prison or inmates so I'm the last person to offer up solutions - since we've been incarcerating people for centuries, and spending $trillions doing it, there must be some expert minds who could figure it out, if there was a will to do it. But with all the talk of drugs, gangs, etc. in prisons it seems there's not much of a will there.
 
Kobie said:
Condoning rape, under any circumstance, is wrong. Period. End of discussion.
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Re-read what I said. I did not condone any such thing. I simply said that I have NO sympathy for the less than scum thing and that I would prefer to just execute them.
 
Ikari said:
There would necessarily need to be quite a bit of overhaul from reducing prison population to finding more efficient means to keep prisoners tracked and in line. Nobody really "puts themselves into prison". It's not voluntary. We throw them into prison because they have been found guilty in a court of law of actions which are destructive to a peaceful and free society, which is necessary. But we are still the ones to throw them into prison and we are still responsible for their well being.
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Bull****, we are responsible for their being not well being.

Definition of well being = The state of being comfortable, healthy, or happy

Comfortable - **** that

Healthy - Meh, just keep em alive is all we gotta do

Happy - HA no.
 
tres borrachos said:
How did you decide that the detainee we're discussing was at a "high risk of being sexually abused"?

Yes, I know - single cells and video cameras. I've seen that repeatedly here. Great. Get it done then.
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I don't make the determination, the prison's administration does that. Being a convicted child molester is probably a factor.
 
Jetboogieman said:
From an emotional point of view I agree with you.

But the issue extends farther than that, a person is sentenced for a crime in prison, that is his/her punishment.

While this particular gentleman may have deserved it, it doesn't change the fact that people are not sentenced to rape as a punishment for their crimes, and yet it seems we have as a society, allowed prison rape to become permissible and by extension have basically said that a prison sentence for a crime, is also a sentence to be raped as a part of that punishment... which essentially makes us no better than Saddams Iraq.
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Hear hear.

For those who rejoice over rape by fellow inmates, would you be willing to support a specifically worded law that made prison rape a part of the sentence? Of course I know there'll be the usual lot of people who'll trip over each other in the race to answer "hell yeah!" but for those who say no, why are you okay with rape being tacitly acceptable when done by someone else, but not part of the sentence?
 
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Henrin said:
Prisoners should sue the state more often for the horrible things that happen to them in prison. I would love to see the state get sued for the millions of rapes that happen inside their prison walls. Failing to protect inmates should lead to lawsuit, imho.
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Great then if i get robbed outside of jail I can sue the government because I got robbed. It sounds fair to me....its not like people in jail committed crimes and thus its probably not safe to be around them or anything.
 
danarhea said:
**** that child molesting piece of scum...... Wait...... They already did. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Article is here.
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Civilised sociaty has no room for child molestation or rape. I say give child molesters and rapists alike death. Conviction, 1 appeal to confirm, then the fireing squad within the month.
 
Jerry said:
Civilised sociaty has no room for child molestation or rape. I say give child molesters and rapists alike death. Conviction, 1 appeal to confirm, then the fireing squad within the month.
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Yes, civilized society has no room for child molestation but we also have no room for the death penalty.

But a long time in jail is not a problem.
 
Noone deserves to be physically abused, even if guilty of that same offense = Liberal dogma

The law should be respected and upheld, even if you don't agree with it = Conservative dogma

Horrible things are ok when they happen to people I don't like = Internet toughguy dogma.
 
eohrnberger said:
Seems that fake isn't without a sense of irony. Not that I'm glad that this happened, but I'm far from broke up about it.

I wonder, if in front of the right activist judge, he's not going to get some sort of compensation, but, if he's in prison, how's he going to collect? Or is it going to wait for him to be released from prison?
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That is along the same lines of what I was thinking. I always try to think long term and the rapist might make out big on this one. That would suck.
 
Rainman05 said:
Yes, civilized society has no room for child molestation but we also have no room for the death penalty.
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We have plenty of room for the death penalty. Enough with draconian prison sentences for decades, its time to evolve past such barbaric treatment of human beings. Rehabilitate those who can be, and cull the rest. Rapists and child abusers have no place in sociaty, not even in prison.

Rainman05 said:
But a long time in jail is not a problem.
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Its a very big problem.
 
Jerry said:
Civilised sociaty has no room for child molestation or rape. I say give child molesters and rapists alike death. Conviction, 1 appeal to confirm, then the fireing squad within the month.
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I don't believe in state-sanctioned revenge killings.
 
Kobie said:
That's what the death penalty is.
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Not at all. The death penalty is not about revenge, punishment or deterrance. Its about removing dangerous people.

Only the victim can seek revenge anyway and a child is not the State, so enough with your silly hyperbole.
 
Jerry said:
We have plenty of room for the death penalty. Enough with draconian prison sentences for decades, its time to evolve past such barbaric treatment of human beings. Rehabilitate those who can be, and cull the rest. Rapists and child abusers have no place in sociaty, not even in prison.

Its a very big problem.
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It's only a big problem in the private prison scheme.

"evolution" doesn't happen this way. It happens by changing the entire paradigm. There will be a time when western civilization will be at the point where criminality of any crime will be a drop of what it is now, which is a drop of what it was over 200 years ago... but that time is not yet. But it's approaching.

But I know that the way to it is by valuing human life and the death sentence does exactly the opposite.

And ,yes, ofc, rehabilitation is key. Most of Europe's, well, civilized part of europe anyway, is focused on that.
 
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While I loath sexual offenders, especially those who sexually abuse children, whether I like it or not, they do have certain rights under the Constitution. Male rape is a violation of one of their rights.
 
Rainman05 said:
It's only a big problem in the private prison scheme.

"evolution" doesn't happen this way. It happens by changing the entire paradigm. There will be a time when western civilization will be at the point where criminality of any crime will be a drop of what it is now, which is a drop of what it was over 200 years ago... but that time is not yet. But it's approaching.

But I know that the way to it is by valuing human life and the death sentence does exactly the opposite.

And ,yes, ofc, rehabilitation is key. Most of Europe's, well, civilized part of europe anyway, is focused on that.
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What a bunch of crap.
 
apdst said:
A child molester getting ****ed in ass, against his will, while he's in prison for, child molesting, sounds purdy right to me. ;)
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LOL.
We'll put you down as "pro-rape."
; )

Rape isn't right.
Child molesters are scum because they advocate and engage in rapes.
Neither my state nor my country should be like a child molester.
 
Luftwaffe said:
The fact that someone is so spineless towards criminals makes me laugh.
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Hellz Yeah! Damn straight!
A real men, like you and me, we promote the raping other men because it's the brave and manly thing to do.
Too bad you can't be the one to do the raping, eh?

or not
w/e
 
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