Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police[W:302,693:992]

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

Excon said:

Yes, your post is double Lmao.

Her bias clearly shines through, which is a credibility issue. Officers do not try to pull suspects into their vehicle.

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Officers do not try to pull suspects into vehicles...? And you know this how? Keep making it up as you go.

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

NonoBadDog said:

It has been played that way on both sides. That is what I am saying. Some folks have argued that one side is relevant and the other one isn't. I think the rules should be the same for both sides of the argument. Either both are relevant or both aren't relevant.

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Hey, if they're both relevant, I'll take an alleged robbery which had nothing to do with why an otherwise innocent (in the eyes of the law) man was killed over the proven and numerous cases of police brutality by the FPD. Michael Brown was a suspect in alleged robbery. The FPD has proven history of assault and violence.

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

Fenton said:

Its the one lesson that we should get out of this huge mess.

Stupid people have way to much influence in this Country.

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It is amazing how many people in this thread give credence to stupid things said by stupid people on TV or youtube.

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

nota bene said:

From the NY Times yesterday:

The bullets did not appear to have been shot from very close range because no gunpowder was present on his body. However, that determination could change if it turns out that there is gunshot residue on Mr. Brown’s clothing, to which Dr. Baden did not have access. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/u...-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0

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Irrelevant. And I already pointed out why.
The eye witness accounts will have more sway.
The distance he fired from will not matter.

Let me put it this way.
In accordance with know evidence.

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

Hatuey said:

Officers do not try to pull suspects into vehicles...? And you know this how? Keep making it up as you go.

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Seriously? Do you really think they do?
Do you somehow not know that that would not be protocol?

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Hatuey said:

Hey, if they're both relevant, I'll take an alleged robbery which had nothing to do with why an otherwise innocent (in the eyes of the law) man killed over the demonstrated and proven cases of police brutality by the FPD.

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Except that the corruption incidents of the FPD doesn't represent EVERY police officer in the FPD and doesn't provide a character reference of Wilson.

The strong arm robbery, on the other hand........

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contrapositive said:

You are making an enormous conclusion on Wilson's character based on nothing other than (1) he is white (2) he is a cop (3) he fired at least 6 shots, despite the fact that he has a spotless record.

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Hey, you've only been here for 5 posts and you're already making strawman arguments. Good for you. Now try them on someone who hasn't seen it before.

You have to make some very very far fetched assumptions about Wilson's character in order to assert that Wilson executed Brown after he had surrendered. You realize that, don't you?

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Hmmm, your opinion is noted. :shrug:

The version of events that has Brown assaulting the officer, reaching for his gun, and charging Wilson is far more plausible, based on the video's footage showing Brown's aptitude for violence.

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Alleged aptitude for violence, never tried, never proven to have committed the robbery in a court of law. Innocent in the eyes of the law. Do you disagree?

Ballistics and toxicology will offer a far better view.

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Hey, they already show that he was shot multiple times and no gun powder was found on him. The odds aren't looking for the supposed charging argument.

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use[W:302,

contrapositive said:

Except that the corruption incidents of the FPD doesn't represent EVERY police officer in the FPD and doesn't provide a character reference of Wilson.

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And yet... the report and details on the shooting isn't coming from the police officer but from his department which has been shown to be corrupt. Do you disagree?

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

Excon said:

Seriously? Do you really think they do?
Do you somehow not know that that would not be protocol?

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You just said that they don't do it. I asked you how you know. I'll wait for you to backup your claim or duck and dodge. Protocol is irrelevant to what a police officer does and we know this thanks to the many cases of police brutality that occur every year. So I'll wait for you tell us how you "knowing" that they don't do it is proof that he didn't do it.

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use[W:302,

Hatuey said:

Hey, you've only been here for 5 posts and you're already making strawman arguments. Good for you. Now try them on someone who hasn't seen it before.



Hmmm, your opinion is noted. :shrug:



Alleged aptitude for violence, never tried, never proven to have committed the robbery in a court of law. Innocent in the eyes of the law. Do you disagree?



Hey, they already show that he was shot multiple times and no gun powder was found on him. The odds aren't looking for the supposed charging argument.

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It's not a straw man - nice try. Read more closely. You have nothing that gives you the right to make assumptions of Wilson's character. I'm not simplifying your argument, I was simply stating the only hard acts available to you to make such a huge assumption.

So you are absolutely stating that it was not Brown who robbed the store? Hmm. Well, I guess it makes your position easier to argue for....

No, they said they would have to complete forensics of the car and clothes to make a definitive conclusion. In the future, please don't omit any important details like that.

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

Hatuey said:

Hey, if they're both relevant, I'll take an alleged robbery which had nothing to do with why an otherwise innocent (in the eyes of the law) man killed over the demonstrated and proven cases of police brutality by the FPD.

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LOL, well, there ya go. You want past actions to count against the police and not against Brown. The reason I say that is because you want to declare Brown "otherwise innocent (in the eyes of the law)" but declare the police guilty in their past behavior.

I used to live in Denver. If you do a google search on the Denver PD you will find a slew law suits they have had to pay out on. I say that to establish that I am not siding with the PD. I am not that naive. I have worked with Denver and Aurora PD, the FBI and BATF. I don't trust any of them, not one tiny bit.

Let me propose another way of looking at it. Their past actions establishes a pattern and shows intent on both sides. I think there is a possibility that both sides may be at fault here. It wouldn't be the first time stupid met stupid and the results sucked.

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

Hatuey said:

And so she's not credible? My mistake. Quit posting the video as if she is a credible source and how she's being "reported" as accurate when in fact, she's probably the most biased source of accounts out there.

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The original video has now been taken down, but the video minutes after the shooting tells a very different story to the one the "witnesses" were portraying. You can hear the story building in the crowd about Brown being shot while he was surrendering, but at about the 6:20 mark you hear a conversation in the background between two men where one man is discussing what he saw, which is entirely different from the mob-sourced story. This witness corroborates most of the police account, and all of the account of the shooting itself. "Big Mike" turned and charged the officer and the officer shot "Big Mike".

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Hatuey said:

And yet... the report and details on the shooting isn't coming from the police officer but from his department which has been shown to be corrupt. Do you disagree?

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Don't forget the unwitting witness in that youtube video! Also from Wilson's friend, although it is hearsay, so I'm not really counting it.

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

Hatuey said:

You just said that they don't do it. I asked you how you know. I'll wait for you to backup your claim or duck and dodge. Protocol is irrelevant to what a police officer does and we know this thanks to the many cases of police brutality that occur every year. So I'll wait for you tell us how you "knowing" that they don't do it is proof that he didn't do it.

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There is only one reason for a cop to pull a person actually towards the interior of a car. It isn't a smart thing to do, Cops don't do that UNLESS they are going to roll the window up on the person's arm to run them next to the car. It's a dirty trick like putting someone in a trunk and driving over curbs. If you pull someone into a car it gives them a lot more control than the person sitting in the car.

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

NonoBadDog said:

LOL, well, there ya go. You want past actions to count against the police and not against Brown. The reason I say that is because you want to declare Brown "otherwise innocent (in the eyes of the law)" but declare the police guilty in their past behavior.

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He was otherwise innocent in the eyes of the law. The police officer did in fact belong to a corrupt organization. Do you dispute those facts? Yes or no? I don't care about your life in Denver.

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

Hatuey said:

He was otherwise innocent in the eyes of the law. The police officer did in fact belong to a corrupt organization. Do you dispute those facts? Yes or no? I don't care about your life in Denver.

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I dispute that you have an open mind about the facts. I think you are going to see it however you want to see it regardless of the facts.

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

Hatuey said:

Don't hold your breath waiting. It won't happen. The same police department which had no problem in releasing a video of Michael Brown which it later admitted was irrelevant to the shooting (as it didn't even charge his supposed accomplice) isn't going to come out and show witness statements because those witnesses don't exist.



That's how the game has been played hasn't it? Michael Brown being a suspect in alleged robbery is relevant isn't it? Why isn't the department's corruption?

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What was so wrong with releasing the video of Brown involved in a strong arm robbery after days of media coverage depicting Brown as this saintly "gentle giant". Where countless reports in the media reporting he was shot in the back by a white cop? Or other eyewitness accounts that stated he had surrendered and the white cop ruthlessly gunned him down. This became the clarion call for the race baiters like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and social welfare groups to ratchet up the rhetoric and whip the people into a frenzy on the basis of what appears to be lies as evidence is collected and forensics experts have a chance to do their job. The only people who had a problem with the video being released are those who wanted the story of Brown to be a "gentle giant" shot in the back by a white cop to be true. The release of the video was important to show the mindset of Brown and his disrespect for laws and his willingness to use his size to intimidate and rough people up and to force the media to take accountability for their feckless coverage of the incident.

The best thing that could have happened was for the friend of the officer to give his account over the radio early on.

It was because of that account that sent others not associated with the police department in Ferguson to study the coverage of witnesses loading coverage onto social media. It is in one of those videos loaded that the account of a witness in the background just minutes after the shooting occurred giving an account of what he saw just happen to match the officer's account. And mind you this is before any media or race baiter or the police department video release of the robbery involving Brown to taint their account in any way. It isn't hard to believe that others in the area share the same account. Currently, 57% of the people in the area believe the cop is guilty of wrongdoing. 43% do not.

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use [W:302

CanadaJohn said:

You have more information than I've seen - you know the sequence of shots and the stature/position of the "victim" during each?

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It's the nature of these emotion narratives. What little remains of the "I surrender" is pushed as unblemished truth even while the veracity of the rest of the statement has been falsified.

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

Hatuey said:

He was otherwise innocent in the eyes of the law. The police officer did in fact belong to a corrupt organization. Do you dispute those facts? Yes or no? I don't care about your life in Denver.

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The officer has no history of corruption. In America we don't play the "guilt by association" game.

The cop is also innocent right now. Constitution and all that. You've declared him guilty and Brown innocent. That's all well and good, but why don't we let the justice system decide?

There has been corruption in our Federal government, among some elected reps, and some employees. By your logic, everyone in the Federal government is guilty of something.

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

Hatuey said:

He was otherwise innocent in the eyes of the law. The police officer did in fact belong to a corrupt organization. Do you dispute those facts? Yes or no? I don't care about your life in Denver.

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Judging by the video footage of the strong arm robbery it looks like the victim and the witness were a little corrupt too.

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Hatuey said:

He was otherwise innocent in the eyes of the law. The police officer did in fact belong to a corrupt organization. Do you dispute those facts? Yes or no? I don't care about your life in Denver.

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Wilson does belong to an organization riddled with instances of corruption. Does that make Wilson himself complicit in such acts? In other words, does that make Wilson corrupt, simply because select officers were involved in acts of brutality?

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use [W:302

Thorgasm said:

I have been wondering about that myself. I imagine it was taken off by the last autopsy tests.

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Or it was on his clothes which the second ME did not have access to

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

tres borrachos said:

There has been corruption in our Federal government, among some elected reps, and some employees. By your logic, everyone in the Federal government is guilty of something.

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Whoa whoa whoa... slow down there...

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

tres borrachos said:

The officer has no history of corruption.

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And yet, the organization which represents him does. That makes their reports as inadmissible as the friend's statement.

Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

tres borrachos said:

The officer has no history of corruption. In America we don't play the "guilt by association" game.

The cop is also innocent right now. Constitution and all that. You've declared him guilty and Brown innocent. That's all well and good, but why don't we let the justice system decide?

There has been corruption in our Federal government, among some elected reps, and some employees. By your logic, everyone in the Federal government is guilty of something.

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This is where I was going but you put it better than I did. I was hoping for an honest discussion about possibilities because I kind of see where Hatuey is going with it. I am kinda done discussing it with Hatuey.