• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

‘I just kept asking: Why am I being arrested for sitting in my aunt’s driveway?’

I am attempting to find specific law wording, and am having a difficult time. However, there is certainly room for confusion. I say this because there are juvenile curfew laws which only require that juveniles be 'retired from public areas'. Since private residence yards and driveways are not public, they would be permissible under those laws. These are the laws for which people would have experience, since emergency curfews are exceedingly rare.

I am also inclined to believe that people often don't smoke inside their residence, and may often sit in their cars simply to have the radio to listen to or something. I think the automatic assumption that they understood they were 'breaking the law' is ridiculous, as is the assumption that they actually were breaking the law. No one has provided any evidence as to the specifics of the law at this point, even though people have asked. I for one would have absolutely thought I could be outside on my own property with no problem and there would be no reason for officers to be concerned with me. Why should they be concerned about people being at a private residence (retired from public areas)? They are not roaming around, after all. So, whatever the specifics of the actual law, confusion about the actual specifics wouldn't be surprising. After all, when you don't know the specifics, you fall back on expecting the laws to make sense. It isn't at all a stretch to think "Well, I am at a private residence and not roaming the streets so I am sure it will be ok"
 
I'm not the one making the assertion such a law exists. Burden's on you.

Please note that I am sympathetic to your ideas about what the law should likely be. However, people were arrested, so it is actually slightly more likely the law reads such that you must be inside a building. This is far from certain, so I think all of us are responsible to try to find the wording, if we are to be honest.
 
I am attempting to find specific law wording, and am having a difficult time. However, there is certainly room for confusion. I say this because there are juvenile curfew laws which only require that juveniles be 'retired from public areas'. Since private residence yards and driveways are not public, they would be permissible under those laws. These are the laws for which people would have experience, since emergency curfews are exceedingly rare.

I am also inclined to believe that people often don't smoke inside their residence, and may often sit in their cars simply to have the radio to listen to or something. I think the automatic assumption that they understood they were 'breaking the law' is ridiculous, as is the assumption that they actually were breaking the law. No one has provided any evidence as to the specifics of the law at this point, even though people have asked. I for one would have absolutely thought I could be outside on my own property with no problem and there would be no reason for officers to be concerned with me. Why should they be concerned about people being at a private residence (retired from public areas)? They are not roaming around, after all. So, whatever the specifics of the actual law, confusion about the actual specifics wouldn't be surprising. After all, when you don't know the specifics, you fall back on expecting the laws to make sense. It isn't at all a stretch to think "Well, I am at a private residence and not roaming the streets so I am sure it will be ok"

It is telling that the guy didn't say, "Hey!! I live there!" He said no such thing. He and four other guys were sitting in his aunt's driveway. That's not "at home" or on his own private property. That's on somebody else's private property. The purpose of an emergency curfew is that people go home or are holed in where they'll be sleeping for the night. It's a chicken-**** arrest though. But it does let them get people off the streets.
 
I'm not the one making the assertion such a law exists. Burden's on you.
Try again.
Focus on what I actually said this time, and not what you think I said.
But way to show it is too difficult for you to find. :lamo
 
No, it doesn't. You basically just arrest anyone outside past a certain time period for nothing but being outside. You just end up burning resources on people doing nothing wrong.

Violating the curfew by being outside is the definition of doing something wrong. C'mon Henrin, you're smarter than this. Most people who are law abiding are aware of the societal norms that surround them. If a curfew is in effect, then they follow it. They may bitch about it, but they follow it, because they also know that such a curfew makes it significantly easier for law enforcement to isolate the troublemakers.

If you are so dense that you don't know what is required of you during a curfew, then maybe getting arrested is a good lesson for you...
 
It is telling that the guy didn't say, "Hey!! I live there!" He said no such thing. He and four other guys were sitting in his aunt's driveway. That's not "at home" or on his own private property. That's on somebody else's private property. The purpose of an emergency curfew is that people go home or are holed in where they'll be sleeping for the night. It's a chicken-**** arrest though. But it does let them get people off the streets.

So, you think that the curfew does not permit you to stay at another person's residence for the night? I don't agree that an emergency curfew necessarily insists that people "go home". I think that may merely be the way the actual wording is most often interpreted, and the cops may even be confused about it. They aren't lawyers and don't always know what the law really says. I really do want to see the wording.

However, regardless of the wording, I will still need convincing that there wasn't reason for confusion. Actually, no one will in fact be able to convince me because I am confused about what the law would say even now. Again, youth curfew laws DO allow for you to be at any private residence, and since the word curfew is used in both cases, people may come to believe that the laws are very similar. And also again, when we do question exact boundaries, we expect laws to make sense. People being permitted to gather in small social groups on private property seems harmless or at least could seem harmless, especially to people who are just actually being social. As long as they won't be leaving the property to return to their own homes, they might think they were ok. I think it is ridiculous that people are assuming that these people were intentionally trying to be difficult.
 
Inside the house, out on the lawn, it is all being at home. Show me where the curfew requires you to be inside the physical structure of the residence.

Yeah. I wouldn't assume I would have to be indoors unless specifically stated.

Could you be in and enclosed courtyard in an apartment complex? Inside a fenced back yard?

I always thought curfew just meant not on the streets and sidewalks.
 
If you think there is even a CHANCE the police could possible "accidentally" kill a man for smoking a cigerette on private property then... well... ummm.. something is wrong with the state of police?

It could happen. Nothing is wrong with the state of the police. It is proven that if you are too stupid to live you will die. There is an award for that (Darwin). If you want to smoke a cigarette in an area where there are a bunch of real nervous police trying to enforce a curfew after a near by shooting, well, be my guest. Those police are HUMAN, and there is only one human that was ever perfect. They make mistakes. So if you want to make a statement about your freaking stupid ass rights and smoke on "private property" then go for it. I will personally deliver that Darwin award to your funeral.

Damn, I bet that sounds real cold blooded. It isn't all about you or these idiots smoking in the driveway. The curfew is pretty clear. These people are too stupid to realize just how stupid and lucky they were. You make yourself look just as stupid and juvenile by defending them.
 
Yeah. I wouldn't assume I would have to be indoors unless specifically stated.

Could you be in and enclosed courtyard in an apartment complex? Inside a fenced back yard?

I always thought curfew just meant not on the streets and sidewalks.

Yep. That's exactly what I always thought it meant, and that is most often what it does in fact mean (under normal circumstances). Except that it also includes that you can't be in businesses either.

I am frustrated that I can't find a local news source, like the St. Louis Post Dispatch, that actually tells people what they are actually supposed to do. You would think that in the midst of their breathless accounts of the controversy, they would actually you know, do some reporting and tell people useful information.

I have been to the Missouri government site, law sites, local newspapers, etc etc. As far as I can tell, the Missouri law doesn't refer to 'Emergency Curfew' by the word 'curfew' within the writing of their laws.
 
Last edited:
I always thought curfew just meant not on the streets and sidewalks.

Yep. That's exactly what I always thought it meant, and that is most often what it does in fact mean (under normal circumstances).
Maybe you two can explain why you thought it meant differently than it's commonly understood definition?

Curfew

cur·few
ˈkərˌfyo͞o/
noun
noun: curfew; plural noun: curfews

a regulation requiring people to remain indoors between specified hours, typically at night.
"a dusk-to-dawn curfew"
the hour designated as the beginning of a curfew.
"to be out after curfew without permission was to risk punishment"
a daily signal indicating the start of curfew.​

https://www.google.com/search?q=Cur...a:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs


Or is it that you do not know what "remain indoors" means?
 


Maybe you two can explain why you thought it meant differently than it's commonly understood definition?

Curfew

cur·few
ˈkərˌfyo͞o/
noun
noun: curfew; plural noun: curfews

a regulation requiring people to remain indoors between specified hours, typically at night.
"a dusk-to-dawn curfew"
the hour designated as the beginning of a curfew.
"to be out after curfew without permission was to risk punishment"
a daily signal indicating the start of curfew.​

https://www.google.com/search?q=Cur...a:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs


Or is it that you do not know what "remain indoors" means?

I already explained it in a previous post that the laws often state that you are not allowed in a public place, which doesn't exclusively mean indoors. Here are some more definitions:

Curfew | Define Curfew at Dictionary.com

noun
1.
an order establishing a specific time in the evening after which certain regulations apply, especially that no civilians or other specified group of unauthorized persons may be outdoors or that places of public assembly must be closed.
2.
a regulation requiring a person to be home at a certain prescribed time, as imposed by a parent on a child.
3.
the time at which a daily curfew starts.
4.
the period during which a curfew is in effect.
5.
a signal, usually made with a bell, announcing the start of the time of restrictions under a curfew.
6.
a bell for sounding a curfew.​

Oh. And I wouldn't try sounding condescending unless you start to also sound intelligent. It doesn't play the way you think it does.
 
I already explained it in a previous post that the laws often state that you are not allowed in a public place, which doesn't exclusively mean indoors. Here are some more definitions:

Curfew | Define Curfew at Dictionary.com

noun
1.
an order establishing a specific time in the evening after which certain regulations apply, especially that no civilians or other specified group of unauthorized persons may be outdoors or that places of public assembly must be closed.
2.
a regulation requiring a person to be home at a certain prescribed time, as imposed by a parent on a child.
3.
the time at which a daily curfew starts.
4.
the period during which a curfew is in effect.
5.
a signal, usually made with a bell, announcing the start of the time of restrictions under a curfew.
6.
a bell for sounding a curfew.​

Oh. And I wouldn't try sounding condescending unless you start to also sound intelligent. It doesn't play the way you think it does.
So that is why you lack understanding. You failed to realize that generally curfew means a regulation requiring people to remain indoors.

Good thing that you have now been educated. That way you wont make the same mistake the idiots did in getting arrested for not dispersing. iLOL
 
So that is why you lack understanding. You failed to realize that generally curfew means a regulation requiring people to remain indoors.

Good thing that you have now been educated. That way you wont make the same mistake the idiots did in getting arrested for not dispersing. iLOL

I don't believe you have shown that. Perhaps you need to be educated on how often dictionaries get legal concepts wrong.
 
We are not dealing with juvenile curfews, but with Declared State Of Emergency Curfews that pertain to the whole populace.

You have not shown that state of emergency curfews mean that people need to be inside residential buildings. It is amazing how often you think you have shown something when in fact you haven't. One would think that you would slink away in embarrassment, but you never do. It's weird.
 
You have not shown that state of emergency curfews mean that people need to be inside residential buildings. It is amazing how often you think you have shown something when in fact you haven't. One would think that you would slink away in embarrassment, but you never do. It's weird.

Pretty sure hes trolling. Thats why I simply stopped arguing with him. He keeps flaunting that old world, tyrannical definition as if thats what the spirit of this curfew was supposed to address. Keeping looters off the streets and harassing people on private property are obviously 2 very different things. I think he simply hates "thugs". Had it been some old white guy smoking pipe tobacco on his porch maybe he'd show leeway?
 
‘I just kept asking: Why am I being arrested for sitting in my aunt’s driveway?’ - The Washington Post



Wait.. So I thought the media was trying to portray the 7 arrested as rowdy. (not said directly but it sure seemed that way)

Turns out 5 of the people arrested that night were smoking in a car on private property??? Ummmm. If this is true then all the leadership in this police force needs to be stripped and re-established by the community. This is really starting to sound like some NAZI crap. Are the police trying to inflame the local populace on purpose or something? Who the **** pulls a gun out on someone for sitting in a car? Is curfew enough to aim a deadly weapon at someone??
Godwin'd your own thread in the very OP.
 
Pretty sure hes trolling. Thats why I simply stopped arguing with him. He keeps flaunting that old world, tyrannical definition as if thats what the spirit of this curfew was supposed to address. Keeping looters off the streets and harassing people on private property are obviously 2 very different things. I think he simply hates "thugs". Had it been some old white guy smoking pipe tobacco on his porch maybe he'd show leeway?

Yeah, he thinks he is being clever but just embarrasses himself endlessly. Anyway, I have found where the dictionary definition he proposes simply doesn't apply in at least one state. This is the ONLY state so far that I have found that actually defines the word. Hopefully, he will now be educated that dictionaries can't be trusted to tell us much about the specifics of laws. I am almost certain he will wring that hope out of me, no matter how warranted it otherwise would be under normal circumstances.

§ 45-17-1 - Imposition of curfews during civil emergencies; definitions :: 2013 Mississippi Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

"Curfew" is hereby defined as a prohibition against any person or persons walking, running, loitering, standing, sitting, lying or motoring upon any alley, street, public property or vacant premises within the corporate limits of the municipality except persons officially designated to duty with reference to said civil emergency or those lawfully on the streets as defined hereinafter.​

I still hope to find something about Missouri specifically. But, I will probably continue in the meantime to post what I find out about other states whether they agree with what I thought the definition was or not. I also suspect that it will be possible in some states for the Governor to define it as he sees necessary. I can certainly imagine a variety of situations where it would be advantageous to have a flexible definition. This may be the case in Missouri. In that event, certainly I should be able to find something about how the governor stated the matter.

In any event, I consider the matter completely settled that curfew 'obviously' means no sitting out in the driveway at a residence. It doesn't mean that in Mississippi, so it is not "the" definition. While it may turn out to mean that in Missouri, the confusion about the law is completely understandable.
 
Tennessee:

38-9-101 - Chapter definitions. :: 2010 Tennessee Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

Curfew” means a prohibition against any person or persons walking, running, loitering, standing or motoring upon any alley, street, highway, public property or vacant premises within the corporate limits of the municipality, except persons officially designated to duty with reference to the civil emergency, or those lawfully on the streets as defined in this chapter; and ...​
 
You have not shown that state of emergency curfews mean that people need to be inside residential buildings. It is amazing how often you think you have shown something when in fact you haven't.
Funny. One would think that you would slink away in embarrassment when you are wrong, but you never do.
I pointed out what we were dealing with. Which was not your absurd juvenile curfew code from Boise, but with Curfew under a state of Declared Emergency.

You should be embarrassed simply for providing such nonsense in the first place. :doh

And it should be very embarrassing for you not to realize what was being spoken about in the first place, which was the common and generally accept definition as provided. "a regulation requiring people to remain indoors."

Which these sources all agree.

Yeah, you should really be embarrassed for not knowing what the word generally meant and for not knowing specifically what was being discussed.
I guess that is what you get for assuming as you usually do.


You have not shown that state of emergency curfews mean that people need to be inside residential buildings.
Apparently you are confused, and should be ashamed that you are.
I never said I did show such, did I?

You see, most folks know we are dealing with a curfew put in place under a state of emergency to quell looting, rioting and damage.
A curfew that includes adults, which is different in purpose scope and reason than that for juveniles.

And I never said what you assumed, I merely pointed out that we are dealing with an entirely different type of curfew than the juvenile curfew you supplied. You obviously didn't realize that and assumed something totally different. Your failure.

They are not the same, and you should be extremely embarrassed for providing it.

And hell, unlike you, some of us know that a general curfew that covers adults is held to a different standard of review/scrutiny in courts than that of a juvenile curfew.


It is amazing how often you think you have shown something when in fact you haven't.
What is funny is that you get to be shown wrong every time you speak such nonsense.


I don't believe you have shown that.
Yeah, I have.
You clearly didn't know the general definition, even though most sources say the same thing. D'oh!


Perhaps you need to be educated on how often dictionaries get legal concepts wrong.
That's funny.
I am speaking about the generally known and accepted definition as provided, and you go off on a "legal concept" tangent.
Maybe you should pay attention to what has been said as you were told.

So again:
So that is why you lack understanding. You failed to realize that generally curfew means a regulation requiring people to remain indoors.

Good thing that you have now been educated. That way you wont make the same mistake the idiots did in getting arrested for not dispersing. iLOL



And let me ask since your thought processes seem convoluted; What exactly do you think is meant by "a regulation", when defining Curfew? Do you absurdly think that they are not referring to the legal concept of regulation and are all wrong in their definition? iLOL :lamo


It is also funny that you ignore what they were actually charged with, failing to disperse.
 
They did disperse. They were at the protests and then they left and went home.
 
Pretty sure hes trolling. Thats why I simply stopped arguing with him. He keeps flaunting that old world, tyrannical definition as if thats what the spirit of this curfew was supposed to address. Keeping looters off the streets and harassing people on private property are obviously 2 very different things. I think he simply hates "thugs". Had it been some old white guy smoking pipe tobacco on his porch maybe he'd show leeway?
Well you are wrong again. Doesn't that figure. You clearly do not know what Curfew means if you think I am pointing to an old world tyrannical definition.
And the police were not harassing anyone. They failed to disperse and were charged with it.
 
Back
Top Bottom