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Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat [W:613/629]

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Simon W. Moon said:
I don't want people imprisoned.
Just the ideologies.
To me they're separate things people and ideology.
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Oh really? You think an "ideology" is a tangible thing? You can touch it? see it? arrest it?

ooooooookkkkkkkkk.

:cuckoo::2rofll::crazy3:
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Rho Chalmers, who disclosed to the Houston Chronicle yesterday that she was a member of the grand jury that indicted Texas Gov. Rick Perry, was an active delegate to the Texas Democratic Party convention during grand jury proceedings. Chalmers’ active participation in Democratic state politics is important because she claimed yesterday to the Houston Chronicle that her decision to indict Perry, a Republican, was not based on politics.

Perry Grand Juror Was A Democratic Party Delegate During Proceedings
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But of course not...Perish the thought. This whole thing isn't political at all....:roll:
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

j-mac said:
Oh really? You think an "ideology" is a tangible thing? You can touch it? see it? arrest it?
ooooooookkkkkkkkk.
:cuckoo::2rofll::crazy3:
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I was following your lead.
j-mac said:
Hmmm...Do you believe that non progressive ideologies should be imprisoned?
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If you can talk about imprisoning ideologies...
I figured we were speaking metaphorically.

I take it you misspoke somehow?
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

j-mac said:
But of course not...Perish the thought. This whole thing isn't political at all....:roll:
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Are you alleging the jury pool was tainted?
Have we ruled out the possibility that the person was selected via the regular old way that GJ members were selected?

Or is this merely fud?

We should rule out the simplest solution first before we go on to the wide, wonderful world of conspiracies.
I think so anyway.
The world of conspiracy and victimhood does hold quite the allure, though--War on Christmas!

So do we have any actual indication that there was funny business?
Or is all we have fud?
 
joG said:
I think it very comforting that such relatively small breaches of the law lead to indictment of what are very powerful politicians.
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accept when no law has been broken and it is a person using the courts for political revenge.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Simon W. Moon said:
Are you alleging the jury pool was tainted?
Have we ruled out the possibility that the person was selected via the regular old way that GJ members were selected?

Or is this merely fud?

We should rule out the simplest solution first before we go on to the wide, wonderful world of conspiracies.
I think so anyway.
The world of conspiracy and victimhood does hold quite the allure, though--War on Christmas!

So do we have any actual indication that there was funny business?
Or is all we have fud?
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Well, first you'd have to explain what the selection process for GJ's in Travis Co. Tx is.
 
Elmer ****ing Fud

j-mac said:
But ... roll:
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LOL

The whole gist of the article you linked to in two sentences:


While grand jurors are not generally prohibited from engaging in political activity, Chalmers’ apparent giddiness at attending an event for a grand jury witness calls into question her ability to objectively scrutinize his testimony.​

So, Mr. Sikma is just worried that the lady could not be impartial because she made a Facebook posts which Sikma decided were "giddy."

That's it.
That's the case Mr Sikma is making.
One of the jurors may not have been able to be impartial because she is a Democrat.

So, all that we have is fud.

simon-w-moon-albums-pics-picture67171701-elmer-fudd.png
 
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Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

j-mac said:
Well, first you'd have to explain what the selection process for GJ's in Travis Co. Tx is.
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Never mind. I went ahead and read the article.
He wasn't making any allegations of wrong-doing whatsoever.

Sikma isn't telling us that there was anything actually wrong about the GJ.
Mr. Sikma is just telling us that he worries about what could have been.

That's all there is to that one afaict.
 
Re: Elmer ****ing Fud

Simon W. Moon said:
LOL

The whole gist of the article you linked to in two sentences:


While grand jurors are not generally prohibited from engaging in political activity, Chalmers’ apparent giddiness at attending an event for a grand jury witness calls into question her ability to objectively scrutinize his testimony.​

So, Mr. Sikma is just worried that the lady could not be impartial because she made a Facebook post which Sikma decided were "giddy."

That's it.
That's the case Mr Sikma is making.
One of the jurors may not have been able to be impartial because she is a Democrat.

So, all that we have is fud.

simon-w-moon-albums-pics-picture67171699-elmer-fudd.gif
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Never mind. I went ahead and read the article.
He wasn't making any allegations of wrong-doing whatsoever.

Sikma isn't telling us that there was anything actually wrong about the GJ.
Mr. Sikma is just telling us that he worries about what could have been.

That's all there is to that one afaict.
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Well, I am shocked Mr. "conservative" that you have no problem with a possible GJ seat being biased by a liberal out to taint the Jury....
 
Re: Elmer ****ing Fud

j-mac said:
Well, I am shocked Mr. "conservative" that you have no problem with a possible GJ seat being biased by a liberal out to taint the Jury....
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I'd have a huge problem if there was corruption of the GJ.

But, according to Sikma that's not what happened.
Sikma is not even saying that something corrupt happened.

I find it amusing that you think Sikma's worrying is worthy of panty-knotting.

Sikma isn't even alleging that anything untoward actually took place.
So what is it exactly that I am supposed to be getting riled up about?
That there was a Democrat on the jury?
That there was woman on the jury?
Thet there was a Facebook user on the jury?
 
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Re: Elmer ****ing Fud

Simon W. Moon said:
I'd have a huge problem if there was corruption of the GJ.

But, according to Sikma that's not what happened.
Sikma is not even saying that something corrupt happened.

I find it amusing that you think Sikma's worrying is worthy of panty-knotting.

Sikma isn't even alleging that anything untoward actually took place.
So what is it exactly that I am supposed to be getting riled up about?
That there was a Democrat on the jury?
That there was woman on the jury?
Thet there was a Facebook user on the jury?
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*Sigh* Now on to dishonesty eh Simon? No ones "panties" are in a "knot".... I'm just saying, if you have someone let on a GJ who was an admitted delegate of the opposing party of the Governor your trying to indict, there may be a problem there.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
What part of the indictment do you find wanting and why?


What's Crum's beef with Perry?
Lay it on us.
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The governor was the authority to veto.

The dems are using this because Perry wanted Lehmberg to step down from her office when she got a DUI.
 
Re: Elmer ****ing Fud

j-mac said:
*Sigh* Now on to dishonesty eh Simon? No ones "panties" are in a "knot".... I'm just saying, if you have someone let on a GJ who was an admitted delegate of the opposing party of the Governor your trying to indict, there may be a problem there.
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But you're still not saying that there is a problem there.
No one is saying that anything untoward has actually happened.
Why would you expect me to be concerned?

The very article you cited cites the lady as saying that hse made a good faith effort to be impartial.
To date there is zero evidence that she did anything wrong.
Not only is there no evidence that she has done something wrong, no one is even saying that she did do something wrong.


What is the thing I am supposed to have a problem with?
That they let a democrat on the jury? And we all know that no democrat can be trusted?

At least make an actual allegation against her for me to get agitated over.
Give me something to work with here.
 
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cpgrad08 said:
The governor was the authority to veto.
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Saying that the governor has the authority to veto is not an answer to the charge that the governor used the threat of a veto illegally.

Is there anyway in which a threat of a veto could be used illegally?

If so, if there is a way that a veto threat could be used illegally, then to form a full and actual answer to the charge that the governor used the treat of a veto illegally it would be necessary to also establish that Perry's veto threat was not used illegally.

What if I were a governor and I issued a threat to veto legislation unless someone consented to sexual advances?
Would that be a legal use of a veto threat?
If not, if there is any way in which a veto threat could be used illegally, then the reply that you have provided does not go far enough.

The fact that Perry threatened to use his veto power is generally established already.
It's also established that vetoes are a power of that executive office.
That's also a given.

The allegation is that Perry used the threat of a veto in an illegal manner--a manner which comports to the specifics of the laws cited in the indictment.

cpgrad08 said:
The dems are using this because Perry wanted Lehmberg to step down from her office when she got a DUI.
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And Crum is a puppet of the dems?
If so, you can tell this because...?
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Saying that the governor has the authority to veto is not an answer to the charge that the governor used the threat of a veto illegally.

Is there anyway in which a threat of a veto could be used illegally?

If so, if there is a way that a veto threat could be used illegally, then to form a full and actual answer to the charge that the governor used the treat of a veto illegally it would be necessary to also establish that Perry's veto threat was not used illegally.

What if I were a governor and I issued a threat to veto legislation unless someone consented to sexual advances?
Would that be a legal use of a veto threat?
If not, if there is any way in which a veto threat could be used illegally, then the reply that you have provided does not go far enough.

The fact that Perry threatened to use his veto power is generally established already.
It's also established that vetoes are a power of that executive office.
That's also a given.

The allegation is that Perry used the threat of a veto in an illegal manner--a manner which comports to the specifics of the laws cited in the indictment.


And Crum is a puppet of the dems?
If so, you can tell this because...?
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Sorry but Veto for sexual favors is different from Veto because a lost of faith in office when the person in charge of said office broke the law.

When Perry wins his cause or get's it dismiss, do I have permission to laugh at you.
 
cpgrad08 said:
Sorry but Veto for sexual favors is different from Veto because a lost of faith in office when the person in charge of said office broke the law.
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Of course it's quite different.
No one was saying that they were the same.

I'll go slower.


Is there any way in which a threat of a veto could be used illegally?


cpgrad08 said:
When Perry wins his cause or get's it dismiss, do I have permission to laugh at you.
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No. I will prevent you from doing so with my invisible mind-control rays that cannot penetrate aluminum foil.
 
cpgrad08 said:
accept when no law has been broken and it is a person using the courts for political revenge.
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That will happen. But it is hard to avoid and better than allowing politicians to take license.
 
joG said:
That will happen. But it is hard to avoid and better than allowing politicians to take license.
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Sadly, we sometimes have to make choices among evils and choose the least of them.
I also think that as a default it's better to err on the side of holding politicians too accountable rather than not accountable enough.
Obviously each situation has to be evaluated on its own merits, but the default rule of thumb is that politicians should be too accountable rather than not accountable enough.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

j-mac said:
Oh really? You think an "ideology" is a tangible thing? You can touch it? see it? arrest it? [...]
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You certainly seem to embrace it ;)
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Lutherf said:
I don't see how this can possibly fly. From the report it seems the only thing he did is say "I'm going to veto funding is you pass it" which, to the best of my knowledge, is perfectly legal and done pretty damned regularly across the nation as well as in DC.

It's fascinating that an ethics complaint was filed against a guy who followed the law while the bitch that got wasted, got busted driving drunk and abused her authority is, apparently, fine and dandy with the Democrats. I mean, I could see that in Massachusetts Democrats but I'm kind of surprised to see it in Texas.
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The legal issue is quid pro quo -- that as punishment for not resigning the gov was going to use his official power in a prohibited way. In this case, it is abuse of power and coercing a public official. This is illegal in Texas.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

MTAtech said:
The legal issue is quid pro quo -- that as punishment for not resigning the gov was going to use his official power in a prohibited way. In this case, it is abuse of power and coercing a public official. This is illegal in Texas.
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Very few of us seem to be able to read the indictment and find how this veto threat differs from other veto threats.
This is greatly inhibiting debate over this issue.
imho
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Simon W. Moon said:
Very few of us seem to be able to read the indictment and find how this veto threat differs from other veto threats.
This is greatly inhibiting debate over this issue.
imho
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It is said that things are difficult to understand when one is invested in not understanding.

Rick Perry is charged with one count of abuse of official capacity -- a first-degree felony (that's 5 to 99 years in prison) when the amount of government property misused is over $200,000 (as is alleged here), and one count of coercion of a public servant, a third-degree felony (2 to 10 years.)

The basis for the allegations stemmed out of Travis County DA Rosemary Lehmberg's drunk-driving arrest back in April 2013. Lehmberg plead guilty and was sentenced to jail time and a fine. Rick Perry demanded that she resign, and threaten to withhold funding from the Public Integrity Unit -- a division of the Travis County DA's office that is charged with investigating and prosecuting state officials and lawmakers -- if she did not resign. She did not resign, and Perry followed up by vetoing state funding for the unit.

Perry didn't demand a resignation from former Cameron County DA Armando Villalobos, who was taking payola. Lehmberg's office is in charge of investigating ethics violations by state officials and lawmakers. Were Lehmberg to resign, Perry would be allowed to appoint a replacement to serve until the next regularly-scheduled election. It sure looks as if Lehmberg was, in her official capacity, investigating people Perry didn't want investigated. Using Perry's veto threat to coerce a resignation is improper and may also be obstruction of justice.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

sangha said:
That begs the question "Is it beneficial to the govt for an officeholder to use governmental powers to undo the results of an election because he doesn't like the winner?"
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Good question, wrong situation. That's not what he's doing.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

MTAtech said:
The legal issue is quid pro quo -- that as punishment for not resigning the gov was going to use his official power in a prohibited way. In this case, it is abuse of power and coercing a public official. This is illegal in Texas.
Click to expand...


Where is the personal harm done to the DA? Does she still have her job? Was Perry under any kind of investigation by the ethics department? This is typical of you. You want it to be so therefore it is so.
 
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