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Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat [W:613/629]

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Legal experts such as Dershowitz and DeGuerin disagree with you.

I couldn't care less. Do you support executives standing in the way of bills on reasons which have nothing to do with politics and which demand that certain officials resign? Yes or no answer.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Good thing none of the Sheriff's Office employees decided to make a deal out of what DA Lehmberg said to them then, eh? Because she definitely was abusing her office when she told them that they'd be the ones who'd end up in jail. ;)

That has zero to do with this.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

And she didn't have to resign. But the state isn't compelled to fund her.

No it isn't, but it is still a felony to make the threat. If Perry had just kept his mouth shut and simply defunded the unit, he wouldn't be in hot water. But he made the threat, and then carried it out, and now he is indicted. Here is the applicable portion of the law......

"Sec. 39.02. ABUSE OF OFFICIAL CAPACITY. (a) A public servant commits an offense if, with intent to obtain a benefit or with intent to harm or defraud another, he intentionally or knowingly:

(1) violates a law relating to the public servant's office or employment; or

(2) misuses government property, services, personnel, or any other thing of value belonging to the government that has come into the public servant's custody or possession by virtue of the public servant's office or employment.
"

Once the grand jury ruled in her case, it was then "hands off". (2) is what applies here. Because the value is greater than 200K, it is a first degree felony.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Veto threats are legal, Karl.
Not when they are used to promote a crime, which the Travis County grand jury indictment points out.

Owning a gun is legal too, but using it to threaten or coerce other law-abiding citizens into quitting their job is not.

So, what your argument is missing is context, which I have now supplied. No extra charge ;)
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Nothing compelled her resignation, she could sit in an unfunded office with the lights out as ridiculous as that sounds. The local people wanted her in there, but the people of TX chose Perry and the fact is is that the state is funding this office. Perhaps the county should and Perry wouldn't be involved.

If the TX legislature had, to a person, said they weren't passing legislation to fund this office and passes a concurrent resolution saying that is was because of her. WOULD YOU INDICT THE LEGISLATURE?

Why not?

Isn't that tyranny?

Fact is checks/balances and separation of powers actually DOES vest powers. In the case of the legislature you wouldn't indict them because its simply within their legislative purview not to pass any law, FOR ANY REASON. Same with the executive branch, the executive branch DOES have powers vested in it and those powers CAN BE UTILIZED -- one of them is the power to VETO legislation and yes, Perry can do JUST THAT

Not passing a bill is much different than one person vetoing a bill after demanding someone resign. The legislature likely wouldn't even vote on a bill with that funding in the first place.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

I couldn't care less. Do you support executives standing in the way of bills on reasons which have nothing to do with politics and which demand that certain officials resign? Yes or no answer.

Dershowitz is on Perry's side. What a shock. :lol:
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Not passing a bill is much different than one person vetoing a bill after demanding someone resign. The legislature likely wouldn't even vote on a bill with that funding in the first place.

No, it isn't actually, in both instances the party is exercising their constitutional authority.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

From your link:

Perry spent his first six years in politics as a Democrat, in a somewhat forgotten history that is sure to be revived and scrutinized by Republican opponents if he decides to run for president.

A raging liberal he was not. Elected to represent a slice of rural West Texas in the state House of Representatives in 1984, Perry, a young rancher and cotton farmer, gained an early reputation as a fiscal conservative. He was one of a handful of freshman “pit bulls,” so named because they sat in the lower pit of the House Appropriations Committee, where they fought to keep spending low. Rick Perry: The Democrat Years | The Texas Tribune

First, historically, Texas Democrats have been pretty conservative. Second, Perry was 34 in 1984 and is now 64. It's just as easy to think that his political thinking evolved as it is to deride him for "playing Democrat."

In what way does Perry "make no bones" about being "in it for the money"? Again, links please.




Please..

Rick Perry might as well wear an oil industry shirt to work every day. He's their guy.



That said, what's it really matter?



-Rick Perry nationally is seen as an idiot.

-Rick Perry in Texas itself is seen as an idiot by every liberal, independent and everything in between.

-Rick Perry is a business conservative. In other words, he's a fake. He's a walking contradiction who quotes Ayn Rand on one hand (an atheist) and on the other hand preaches anti gay biblical statements. The man is an ideological nothing.

He gives con men a bad name for his sloppiness. If you're going to lie, at least make your lies not ideologically contradict one another.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

No, it isn't actually, in both instances the party is exercising their constitutional authority.

Nope, it isn't. Read my last post.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Not when they are used to promote a crime, which the Travis County grand jury indictment points out.

Owning a gun is legal too, but using it to threaten or coerce other law-abiding citizens into quitting their job is not.

So, what your argument is missing is context, which I have now supplied. No extra charge ;)

His veto threat was perfectly legal. He vetoed funding for a government unit because it was run by somebody he didn't like. As a result in his judgment the funding itself was a bad idea BECAUSE that person was there. Removing the person removes the objection.

Nonjusticiable political question, get used to that phrase, because that's how this is resolving.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

His veto threat was perfectly legal. He vetoed funding for a government unit because it was run by somebody he didn't like. As a result in his judgment the funding itself was a bad idea BECAUSE that person was there. Removing the person removes the objection.

Nonjusticiable political question, get used to that phrase, because that's how this is resolving.

No it isn't. It is a felony to make the threat. If Perry had just kept his mouth shut and simply defunded the unit, he wouldn't be in hot water. But he made the threat, and then carried it out, and now he is indicted. Here is the applicable portion of the law......

"Sec. 39.02. ABUSE OF OFFICIAL CAPACITY. (a) A public servant commits an offense if, with intent to obtain a benefit or with intent to harm or defraud another, he intentionally or knowingly:

(1) violates a law relating to the public servant's office or employment; or

(2) misuses government property, services, personnel, or any other thing of value belonging to the government that has come into the public servant's custody or possession by virtue of the public servant's office or employment.
"

Once the grand jury ruled in her case, it was then "hands off". (2) is what applies here. Because the value is greater than 200K, it is a first degree felony.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

No, it isn't actually, in both instances the party is exercising their constitutional authority.

You may be right. We'll see.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Actually I think Rick Perry basically describes the modern day insurrection within the GOP. Quoting Ayn Rand, a Russian Atheistic Capitalist and on the other hand using biblical attacks against everything from computer nerds to anything and everything.


I don't think they could be more contradictory and ideologically conflicted to their core if they tried.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Nope, it isn't. Read my last post.

There's no difference that makes a difference except indicting the legislature becomes obviously absurd, it reveals the utter absurdity of indicting the Governor particularly when the legal remedy should be an action for a writ (which shouldn't issue). Anything beyond that is an absurdity and an assault on separation of powers.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

If she wasn't obligated to resign because of her DUI, then wouldn't Perry not funding her office essentially be him firing her?
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

No it isn't. It is a felony to make the threat. If Perry had just kept his mouth shut and simply defunded the unit, he wouldn't be in hot water. But he made the threat, and then carried it out, and now he is indicted. Here is the applicable portion of the law......

"Sec. 39.02. ABUSE OF OFFICIAL CAPACITY. (a) A public servant commits an offense if, with intent to obtain a benefit or with intent to harm or defraud another, he intentionally or knowingly:

(1) violates a law relating to the public servant's office or employment; or

(2) misuses government property, services, personnel, or any other thing of value belonging to the government that has come into the public servant's custody or possession by virtue of the public servant's office or employment.
"

Once the grand jury ruled in her case, it was then "hands off". (2) is what applies here. Because the value is greater than 200K, it is a first degree felony.

Statutes do NOT modify constitutions. Do you understand what that means? It means the TX legislature cannot, by statute, qualify the constitutional authority of the Governor.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

-Rick Perry in Texas itself is seen as an idiot by every liberal, independent and everything in between.
You clearly know not of what you speak.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

No it isn't. It is a felony to make the threat. If Perry had just kept his mouth shut and simply defunded the unit, he wouldn't be in hot water. But he made the threat, and then carried it out, and now he is indicted. Here is the applicable portion of the law......

"Sec. 39.02. ABUSE OF OFFICIAL CAPACITY. (a) A public servant commits an offense if, with intent to obtain a benefit or with intent to harm or defraud another, he intentionally or knowingly:

(1) violates a law relating to the public servant's office or employment; or

(2) misuses government property, services, personnel, or any other thing of value belonging to the government that has come into the public servant's custody or possession by virtue of the public servant's office or employment.
"

Once the grand jury ruled in her case, it was then "hands off". (2) is what applies here. Because the value is greater than 200K, it is a first degree felony.
Stick to playing music as you do not know of what you speak.
It is not a felony to do as he did, nor does the above law does apply to these actions.
It was nothing more than a stretch of the imagination of the prosecutor, who got a GJ to indict a ham sandwich.

And no, once the "GJ ruled" it was not hands off as you absurdly think.
All the GJ did was fail to return an indictment.
They didn't "rule" as to anything else.
 
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Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

There's no difference that makes a difference except indicting the legislature becomes obviously absurd, it reveals the utter absurdity of indicting the Governor particularly when the legal remedy should be an action for a writ (which shouldn't issue). Anything beyond that is an absurdity and an assault on separation of powers.

The law is there, in black and white, and Perry is not the first to be indicted for what he did. I will walk you through this step, by step.

1) The law says that, if you intend to harm another by misusing government property that has come into the possession of the government employee by virtue of his or her employment, then you have committed a crime.

2) The property in question consists of the funds for the Public Integrity Unit.

3) The employee in question is Assistant DA Rosemary Lehmburg.

4) Had Perry not made any threat, and just cancelled the funds, he could have given any reason he wanted, within reason... For example "The Public Integrity Unit is a waste of taxpayer money, and so I am vetoing the funds".

5) However, Perry issued a threat against Lehmburg and her office. This was AFTER a grand jury already decided that she could keep her job.

6) In making the threat, Perry showed that his action, if taken, would be to act against a public employee by using property of the state of Texas as a weapon.

7) When Perry then carried out this threat, under the laws of the State of Texas, Perry had harmed Lehmberg by misusing government property (the funds).

8) Perry has been indicted for that.

It's all pretty much black and white here. Although the maximum penalty here is 99 years, I doubt Perry will do time, if convicted. When Governor Pa Ferguson was convicted in 1917 for the same crime, he did not do a day in jail. When he tried to run for Governor again in 1926, the Texas Supreme Court ruled him ineligible as a convicted felon. So his wife ran, and she was elected, becoming the first female governor in Texas history.
 
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Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Statutes do NOT modify constitutions. Do you understand what that means? It means the TX legislature cannot, by statute, qualify the constitutional authority of the Governor.

These laws have been on the books for more than 100 years, and have passed constitutional muster time and again. And these laws were signed into law by guess what? A Governor.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

A separate grand jury had already investigated her, and allowed her to stay in her job. Perry then carried out his threat to veto the funds. That is highly illegal in Texas.

Already claiming he acted in a "highly illegal" fashion before any actual ruling of such? Funny, you sang a different tune the entire time the Bergdahl saga has been playing out.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

These laws have been on the books for more than 100 years, and have passed constitutional muster time and again. And these laws were signed into law by guess what? A Governor.
And the prosecutor is stretching the imagination in wrongly using them as he is.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

And the prosecutor is stretching the imagination in wrongly using them as he is.

Show me the hole in this. I will post it again. Show me how it is wrongly being used. And, BTW, the prosecutor in this is an independent, who is respected by both Democrats and Republicans, was appointed by a Republican judge, and has been spoken highly by both our US Senators, who are both Republicans.

1) The law says that, if you intend to harm another by misusing government property that has come into the possession of the government employee by virtue of his or her employment, then you have committed a crime.

2) The property in question consists of the funds for the Public Integrity Unit.

3) The employee in question is Assistant DA Rosemary Lehmburg.

4) Had Perry not made any threat, and just cancelled the funds, he could have given any reason he wanted, within reason... For example "The Public Integrity Unit is a waste of taxpayer money, and so I am vetoing the funds".

5) However, Perry issued a threat against Lehmburg and her office. This was AFTER a grand jury already decided that she could keep her job.

6) In making the threat, Perry showed that his action, if taken, would be to act against a public employee by using property of the state of Texas as a weapon.

7) When Perry then carried out this threat, under the laws of the State of Texas, Perry had harmed Lehmberg by misusing government property (the funds).

8) Perry has been indicted for that.
 
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Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Already claiming he acted in a "highly illegal" fashion before any actual ruling of such? Funny, you sang a different tune the entire time the Bergdahl saga has been playing out.

Actually what I said is that Perry carried out his thread to veto the funds. Perry has said so himself. And yes, it is illegal to carry out threats of this nature, according to the laws of the State of Texas. If convicted, Perry has nobody to blame but himself, because if he hadn't run his mouth and made the threats, he would be in no trouble at all.

And I don't see what Bergdahl has to do with this. Could you stick to the topic, please?
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Show me the hole in this. I will post it again. Show me how it is wrongly being used. And, BTW, the prosecutor in this is an independent, who is respected by both Democrats and Republicans, was appointed by a Republican judge, and has been spoken highly by both our US Senators, who are both Republicans.
You have already been shown numerous times.
You just deny.
As for the prosecutor? His stature matters not. He is stretching the meaning here. He isn't above that.
 
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