Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat [W:613/629]

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Hatuey said:

The part that is important is that they can't veto for any reason and Perry himself should know that. His mistake was speaking about the reasons for the veto. He can use the veto power to influence the bill being passed itself. He can't use it to threaten people to step down. It'd be like Obama vetoing any bill until the Republicans in the house resign.

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Wrong, any bill that is vetoed can be overturned by the Legislature. Sorry, but the Governor can veto any bill for any reason. Want to bet on the outcome in the Courts?

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Simon W. Moon said:

You're giving up just like that?
You're not even going to try to debate, construct an argument which explains and supports your position?
Just some assertions and gainsaying, huh?

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Nothing to debate, Perry has the authority to veto any bill for any reason and the courts are going to rule in his favor, the last part is my opinion, the first part is fact.

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

JasperL said:

They were different types of recessions, with different causes. If you don't understand the extent of the debt bubble that was the cause of the GLOBAL recession that began in 2007, you really shouldn't be talking about appropriate responses. Besides, the "response" to the 2001 recession was to cut taxes, blow up the deficit, start a war, greatly expand government spending, and then start blowing up the debt bubble that collapsed in 2007. You think that was a sustainable economic plan?

Besides, note the employment drop. Took 24 months, 18 months of them pre-Obama, to hit bottom. Different kind of recession by orders of magnitude.

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Your opinion noted, leadership was lacking. Obama submitted a 844 billion dollar stimulus program that failed and after that failure what was the next thing he did? Right, Obamacare. That leadership has led to the worst recovery in history and someone who is in over their head.

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Conservative said:

That is your opinion which you are entitled to but it defies reality. Tell me exactly who this recession affected you and your family? Tell me what economic program Obama implemented that showed leadership in the face of the recession? You buy what you are told and ignore reality.

It is every easy to point to the 750,000 jobs lost in the last two months of the Bush Administration but you never mention the million discouraged most of 2010 that weren't counted and made the official unemployment number look better than it was. Even today the discouraged workers are close to 800,000. Please let me know when Bush ever had 800,000 discouraged workers?

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It's a bit easier to show good economic results while you're blowing up the biggest debt bubble since the Great Depression, that led inevitably to a worldwide financial collapse and global Great Recession/Depression. You just can't blame the popping of a massive bubble on the guy who inherited a bubble already popped.

And if you want to criticize the economic response, that's fine, but you have to do it in the context of what we were facing, and be realistic enough to acknowledge that another round of tax cuts, which is pretty much the GOP playbook for any economic ill, wasn't going to solve the problem. So what should have been done?

You see, you buy the rhetoric and ignore the results. Before Democrats took control of the legislative Process Bush inherited the Clinton recession, had 9/11, and still had over 9 million jobs created. Democrats were more interested in regaining the WH than doing their job. So what did Obama do, he signed a stimulus program that went into effect February 2009 that failed to create the shovel ready jobs promised. He saw the failure of that stimulus program and followed it up with Obamacare. Now tell me that shows leadership?

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If you want to have a serious discussion, fine, but the democrats took over the House and Senate in January 2007. The housing bubble had already popped and was rolling over, and the debt bubble lasted a few more months, although I think that peak was reached in mid 2006 (have to look it up). Bottom line is there was ONE direction to go off a massive bubble and it was towards a massive crash. Nothing could have stopped that.

Now if you acknowledge that and want to have a discussion about alternative ways to deal with that inevitable crash, that's fine. We can have a discussion.

Nice diversion though on a tread where so called people who are concerned about ethics ignore the failed ethics of Obama to attack Rick Perry for doing his job and vetoing a bill that would have given money to someone who truly abused the taxpayer trust. Isn't it amazing how authorities were wrong and this DA wasn't when she drove drunk threatening innocent taxpayers on the road?

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Not much to say about the Perry indictment. And I didn't bring up the topic of who caused the recession - I just responded to a silly point about that.

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

eohrnberger said:

I'm not 100% sure, but which corruption is it that Perry's associated with? Implicated in? I've not heard anything, what have you on this?

Otherwise, it's an empty and baseless claim.

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If this news is false and Perry is innocent, it will be reveled at trial. There is nothing wrong with forming an opinion based on what is known presently.

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Conservative said:

Nothing to debate, Perry has the authority to veto any bill for any reason and the courts are going to rule in his favor, the last part is my opinion, the first part is fact.

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Are you trying to say that the court will rule that the laws used to indict Perry are unconstitutional or otherwise flawed?

Are you trying to say that the court will rule that the office of the governor is immune to the laws used to indict Perry?

Are you trying to say that the court will rule that the laws used to indict Perry don't count?

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Conservative said:

Your opinion noted, leadership was lacking. Obama submitted a 844 billion dollar stimulus program that failed and after that failure what was the next thing he did? Right, Obamacare. That leadership has led to the worst recovery in history and someone who is in over their head.

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It failed? Want to compare our economic results to Europe post bubble collapse? Whose response worked better? What should McCain/Palin have done? More tax cuts?

And it's a fair point about Obamacare, but there is somehow never a good time to address healthcare, and the main ACA didn't take effect until this year, 5 years after the recession ended. Not enough time?

Frankly I've been disappointed no one has addressed our trade problem. We can't offshore the production of wealth and then pretend we can sustain a growing economy on services. So how do we compete with $1/hour wages and nearly non-existent environmental rules, not to mention the state subsidies of our economic competitors? I don't know the answer as long as we embrace "free trade" so that's where my problems with Obama are - he's even now pushing the TPP. So terrible that we can't know what's in it - the negotiations are secret, even from much of Congress (but not the lobbyists). If the GOP took on that issue, maybe I'd have to start voting for them again, but they're on board as much as the corporate democrats and Obama.

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Texmex said:

If this news is false and Perry is innocent, it will be reveled at trial. There is nothing wrong with forming an opinion based on what is known presently.

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So what is it that you know that leads you to believe that Perry has engaged in corrupt activities?

Or is this just a baseless accusation?

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

JasperL;1063651196]It's a bit easier to show good economic results while you're blowing up the biggest debt bubble since the Great Depression, that led inevitably to a worldwide financial collapse and global Great Recession/Depression. You just can't blame the popping of a massive bubble on the guy who inherited a bubble already popped.

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Sorry but the reality is good leadership not the partisan blame game would have gotten us into a normal recovery quicker and we still aren't there. All Obama did with the stimulus was bail out supporters, then he dumped millions and millions into micromanaging the economy, Solyndra and other solar power companies, took over GM/Chrysler selling people like you that he saved the auto industry, and when that didn't work he gave us Obamacare. That isn't leadership and that is the problem

And if you want to criticize the economic response, that's fine, but you have to do it in the context of what we were facing, and be realistic enough to acknowledge that another round of tax cuts, which is pretty much the GOP playbook for any economic ill, wasn't going to solve the problem. So what should have been done?

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When you understand the components of GDP and what drives the economy then you will understand why tax cuts benefit the economy Anything that puts more money into the pockets of the American people benefits the economy. Big govt. is never the answer and Obama has yet to propose a budget cut and a smaller govt. He is a leftwing zealot who believes it is the role of the Federal Govt. to take over personal responsibility issues.

If you want to have a serious discussion, fine, but the democrats took over the House and Senate in January 2007. The housing bubble had already popped and was rolling over, and the debt bubble lasted a few more months, although I think that peak was reached in mid 2006 (have to look it up). Bottom line is there was ONE direction to go off a massive bubble and it was towards a massive crash. Nothing could have stopped that.

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There were years and years of micro managing the economy prior to the bubble bursting starting with Carter and the CRA, Clinton and the sub prime program, and then Franklin Raines and Jaimie Gorelick. You buy what the media tells you and ignores history. The problem remains liberal arrogance where there are no consequences for poor personal choices. GM/Chrysler should have been allowed to fail, people who took out mortgages that they couldn't afford should have been allowed to fail. Liberals only kick the can down the road. "Your" President has added 7 trillion dollars to the debt so tell me what the debt service is going to be when interest rates rise? It is 250 billion a year now, the fourth largest budget item

Now if you acknowledge that and want to have a discussion about alternative ways to deal with that inevitable crash, that's fine. We can have a discussion.

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There is no way to have an honest discussion with any liberal regarding personal responsibility issues.

Not much to say about the Perry indictment. And I didn't bring up the topic of who caused the recession - I just responded to a silly point about that.

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Not much more to discuss about the Perry issue, the courts will decide but by that time liberals will be on to some other subject and will ignore the outcome because they aren't going to like it

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Ryan5 said:

Perry simply isn't likable. The man can't carry moderates nationally and isn't half as connected as Bush was.


I think the time of the "Raging yet obviously fake Southern Conservative" has passed nationally speaking.

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As a native Texan, I agree. He isn't likable. As far as I'm concerned Perry's the worst Gov. ever. Bush was bad, but not nears a bad as Perry. But their being elected isn't a good testament about Texas voters. Texas voters are a strange bunch. Or have become strange over the last 25 years.

Perry's success has come from his handlers over the years. They can make him look good, but that's where it ends. When he opens his mouth...it's over. He's a prop. A moronic prop at that.

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

JasperL said:

It failed? Want to compare our economic results to Europe post bubble collapse? Whose response worked better? What should McCain/Palin have done? More tax cuts?

And it's a fair point about Obamacare, but there is somehow never a good time to address healthcare, and the main ACA didn't take effect until this year, 5 years after the recession ended. Not enough time?

Frankly I've been disappointed no one has addressed our trade problem. We can't offshore the production of wealth and then pretend we can sustain a growing economy on services. So how do we compete with $1/hour wages and nearly non-existent environmental rules, not to mention the state subsidies of our economic competitors? I don't know the answer as long as we embrace "free trade" so that's where my problems with Obama are - he's even now pushing the TPP. So terrible that we can't know what's in it - the negotiations are secret, even from much of Congress (but not the lobbyists). If the GOP took on that issue, maybe I'd have to start voting for them again, but they're on board as much as the corporate democrats and Obama.

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You don't seem to understand the European Economy vs ours at all. Europe relies on govt. spending, this country relies on consumer spending. There is quite a size difference, significant GDP difference, and certainly different thoughts on which is better. I will take the individual wealth creation economics any day over what Obama and liberals want. The normal European economy generates low productivity, low economic growth, high debt, and high unemployment. In addition they have the U.S. Military to defend them

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Simon W. Moon said:

Are you trying to say that the court will rule that the laws used to indict Perry are unconstitutional or otherwise flawed?

Are you trying to say that the court will rule that the office of the governor is immune to the laws used to indict Perry?

Are you trying to say that the court will rule that the laws used to indict Perry don't count?

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The laws being used have nothing to do with what Perry did. The courts are going to decide that Perry had the right to do what he did regardless of the claims and that is all that matters.

Kochist Cowboy Clunker in the Clink

Lutherf said:

I don't see how this can possibly fly. From the report it seems the only thing he did was say "I'm going to veto funding if you pass it."

It's fascinating that an ethics complaint was filed against a guy while the bitch that got wasted, got busted driving drunk and abused her authority is, apparently, fine and dandy with the Democrats. I mean, I could see that in Massachusetts Democrats but I'm kind of surprised to see it in Texas.

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If you listen to the Tea Party whine all the time about the RINOs being out to get them, you might see those same RINOs out to get Perry. He is the darling of the Tea Party. Also, he is Sarah Palin in a Cowboy Hat and a sure loser if nominated for the Presidency, which the Tea Party could pull off in the primaries.

Thoughts While Sipping Tea-Flavored Kool-Aid

shrubnose said:

I totally support locking up all of the crooks. on the left and the right.

If the court convicts them, put them behind bars.

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Can't RICO Rick run for President from his prison cell? Then, after he is elected and inaugurated, he can pardon himself! There's still hope for the Party of Nope.

I was afraid I'd be accused of gloating, so I thought I'd throw a bone to his Oops Troops.

Re: Kochist Cowboy Clunker in the Clink

PrometheusBound said:

If you listen to the Tea Party whine all the time about the RINOs being out to get them, you might see those same RINOs out to get Perry. He is the darling of the Tea Party. Also, he is Sarah Palin in a Cowboy Hat and a sure loser if nominated for the Presidency, which the Tea Party could pull off in the primaries.

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I don't know about Perry being a Tea Party darling. He'd be a preferable candidate to Jeb Bush or Chris Christie but I really don't think he's at the top too many folks list for the next president.

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

CanadaJohn said:

You don't charge a sitting Governor on such flimsy speculation. If the DA had an ounce of integrity, she would have resigned, but considering her actions during her arrest and detention, it's clear she has an inflated sense of ownership and entitlement. I doubt Governor Perry was the only one in Texas who thought she should go. Why can't it simply be that he wanted to take out the trash and see new leadership in that office?

Bottom line, however, is that government leaders use the power of the purse to get things done - always have, always will. Better line them all up and start the parade to the courts.

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The underlined portion of your statement is what some are starting to question. Who would he have recommended to replace her? To that, let me ask the following questions:

1. Prior to the public intoxication conviction, had Gov. Perry ever publically complained about DA Lehmberg's job performance or that of the Public Integrity Unit she managed?

2. Assuming such charges of poor performance and unsatisfactory results were levied by Gov. Perry against DA Lehmberg, were they every substantiated?

What I'm getting at was there every a pattern of poor performance from DA Lehmberg and the PIU prior to the public intox conviction and did the Governor make such public?

Fenton said:

Wow.......

Me ? Deflection ?

You just absolutely ignored her arrest, the VIDEO of her arrest and the fact she was arrested for driving with a blood alcohol level 3 times the legal limit.

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No. I've seen the videos. I believe a poster who goes by "Dipper" posted two of them. They're really embarrassing. Nonetheless, as a duly elected official she has every right not to resign and finish out her term. That said, I agree with those who have stated her actions were unbecoming of someone holding public office and she should have resigned, but she didn't. And in truth, the only people who have the right to pressure her to leave are: 1) her immediate supervisor (the County Commissioner) and, 2) the voting public.

You ignored Perry's stated reason so you could invent some partisan BS hypothetical.

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Haven't seen Gov. Perry's most recent press conference on the matter; was about to until I came across this post. I'll provide feedback on his commentary after I've had a chance to hear what he had to say.

Perry didn't act before because she hadn't been busted for driving drunk yet, and making a complete ass of herself.

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You kinda validated my point above, but I'll wait to see if others can provide a more solid answer to my questions above.

Are you sure you don't work for Travis County ?

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No, I do not.

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Conservative said:

The laws being used have nothing to do with what Perry did. The courts are going to decide that Perry had the right to do what he did regardless of the claims and that is all that matters.

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In short, you believe Gov. Rick Perry to be above the law.

It really doesn't matter though. The TX state code on coercion has an exception clause written into it that just might let the Governor off the hook. I disagree with it because it's very clear Gov. Perry overstepped his bounds here. He can recommend that DA Lehmberg resign, but he can't force her out of her duly elected position. He can use the power of the purse to persuade a (state) government office/department under his purview to tow the line, but he can't withhold funding which ultimately leads that department to be ineffective in the performance of its duties.

IMO, anyone who can't see what Gov. Perry did was wrong simply doesn't want to see it.

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Objective Voice said:

The underlined portion of your statement is what some are starting to question. Who would he have recommended to replace her? To that, let me ask the following questions:

1. Prior to the public intoxication conviction, had Gov. Perry ever publically complained about DA Lehmberg's job performance or that of the Public Integrity Unit she managed?

2. Assuming such charges of poor performance and unsatisfactory results were levied by Gov. Perry against DA Lehmberg, were they every substantiated?

What I'm getting at was there every a pattern of poor performance from DA Lehmberg and the PIU prior to the public intox conviction and did the Governor make such public?

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Why does there need to be a pattern? The person serving as DA and running the Public Integrity Unit showed a flagrant disregard for the law by driving with an open bottle of vodka in her car. She tried to abuse her power when she told jailers that her arrest was their problem, not hers.

Oh, and Lehmberg did/does have a serious problem with alcohol. (Here's the PDF of her liquor store receipts: http://www.keyetv.com/images/Lehmberg receipts.pdf ). She was driving the wrong way. Ask yourself how many times she drove drunk before this.

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Objective Voice said:

In short, you believe Gov. Rick Perry to be above the law.

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Nope, what you are trying to do is convict Perry on an ethics violation for doing what he had the authority to do. It is claimed that this is an ethics violation, If a Governor can veto legislation what does ethics have to do with it. It doesn't matter what his reasons were and you ought to know that. That is what the courts are going to decide as well. what then for you?

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Objective Voice said:

In short, you believe Gov. Rick Perry to be above the law.

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By his actions, it seems that Gov. Perry believes that was well.

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Fenton said:

Niether " route ' broke the law.

He has the authority to veto and has the authority to discuss his reasoning BEFORE his Veto.

This is all trumped up BS by a scunmy Liberal DA

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Whether it is against the law is for a judge and jury to decide.

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Conservative said:

Nope, what you are trying to do is convict Perry on an ethics violation for doing what he had the authority to do. [...]

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What is trying to be done is to let the courts make that conviction, or not.

Unlike Perry, who was fine with convicting (threatening) Lehmberg without due process. I've always been of the opinion that the hard right are closet totalitarians, and this action by Perry, and the words of his defenders, only serve to prove that point.

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Karl said:

By his actions, it seems that Gov. Perry believes that was well.

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You are right, vetoing legislation is a violation of the laws of the state of TX. The reasons do not matter except when it is a Republican and a potential threat to liberalism. It would really be a blow to liberals if the TX economic results were implemented on a national scale. No wonder liberals are scared, most will have to go to work

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Karl said:

What is trying to be done is to let the courts make that conviction, or not.

Unlike Perry, who was fine with convicting (threatening) Lehmberg without due process. I've always been of the opinion that the hard right are closet totalitarians, and this action by Perry, and the words of his defenders, only serve to prove that point.

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And the courts will with progressives not liking the outcome. Governors have the authority to veto legislation for any reason they want and that is what they are going to rule in this case. Lehmberg didn't have to resign at all, part of her budget wasn't funded. She could have gone to the legislature and court of public opinion to get the veto overturned but the reality is she wanted to make this political as do most liberals

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

sangha said:

NO, it's not a matter of fitness because it's not the Governor's job to determine the fitness of the DA. That's a job for the voters or for others who have the legal authority to impeach.

But let's re-word my question: "Is it beneficial to the govt for an officeholder to use governmental powers to undo the results of an election when those powers are not meant to be used for that purpose?"

Be careful. If you think it's beneficial, you weaken the argument against the DA using his powers to prosecute Perry. After all, in approving Perry's actions solely on the basis of her lack of fitness, then how can you object to the DA taking action against Perry based on Perry's lack of fitness?

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I don't equate the two. Perry committed no crime. The DA did. Perry didn't tarnish his office. The DA did. Perry was upfront and honest with the people of Texas - he clearly, and plainly told them that if this DA refused to resign, he would do everything in his power to see that her office was defunded.

I'm not fan of Perry's, but I believe it's refreshing to have an honest politician speak honestly and follow up on his pledges.

The special counsel has the benefit of being appointed by a judge - I don't know the judge's political affiliation - here in Canada, we never have to consider the political partisanship of our judiciary, unlike in the US. However, I suspect that had the grand jury pool been taken from a cross-section of Texans and not solely from an overwhelmingly Democrat district of the State, the outcome of the grand jury might well have been different.

Personally, I abhor any involvement of courts in the messy business of politics. Leave it to the voters to decide. Here in Toronto, I've seen far too much of the left trying to overturn the will of the voting public through unending legal actions against the City Mayor. I don't care who the politician is, I don't like the courts used to overturn my vote. In this Texas situation, Perry's not running again, so the voters won't get to pass judgement but the DA likely will be and hopefully the voters will turf her sorry ass out.