• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Navy reverses Bible ban

Why would a private charitable society dedicated to providing Bibles and tracts free to the public put Bibles in Navy lodgings?


Why indeed.... quite the mystery isn't it? :lamo

Why are they permitted such a privilege?
 
And for retired personnel and their families--still is at Great Lakes.
Spent many a fine evening with one or both parents at sick-call Navy lodging since 1974 up there.
Commissary priviledges are still there for Mom but we rarely go anymore .

Yes. Pretty much someone has to only be able to get onbase and they can stay in a Navy Lodge. I can stay at a Navy Lodge as a reservist.
 
I really don't see a problem with Bibles and the Military.
People of all beliefs are free to worship with their own books in their rooms.
If you don't like it, don't open it.
Believing in a Creator has given great comfort to countless families who've lost loved ones in the Military.

I use the Bible as good luck in Vegas where I may store money or sports betting slips--
I realize that some may view that as blasphemous but the Bible is in my room for my personal use .
Yes. Pretty much someone has to only be able to get onbase and they can stay in a Navy Lodge.
I can stay at a Navy Lodge as a reservist.
We still miss the USAF base at Chanute, near Rantoul, IL.
Many retired folks relocated there with their Hospital but it was sent west/southwest as so many were in the 1980's .
 
The Gideons are permitted to put books in government rooms?



You wouldn't be objecting methinks, if it was Andy Capp cartoon strips or chocolate mints. :D


In fact, you'd probably shrug if it was the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue I'm sure. :roll:



It's a long standing custom, and America is majority Christian.
 
I really don't see a problem with Bibles and the Military.
People of all beliefs are free to worship with their own books in their rooms.
If you don't like it, don't open it.
Believing in a Creator has given great comfort to countless families who've lost loved ones in the Military.

I use the Bible as good luck in Vegas where I may store money or sports betting slips--
I realize that some may view that as blasphemous but the Bible is in my room for my personal use .

We still miss the USAF base at Chanute, near Rantoul, IL.
Many retired folks relocated there with their Hospital but it was sent west/southwest as so many were in the 1980's .

I don't really have an issue with it but I also see the other side too. I honestly don't think it is worth it for either side to decry. Now, I would say though that they have to accept and put out any religious based material though that is given or none at all. This would have to include Wiccan, FSM, or even Satanism as well.
 
You fell for the stupidity of FOX news D:

My favorite moderator...





Not really.

1. I knew exactly what this was about, and yes I approve of this change in policy.
2. I rarely watch Fox news and haven't seen any today.
 
I don't really have an issue with it but I also see the other side too.
I honestly don't think it is worth it for either side to decry.
Now, I would say though that they have to accept and put out any religious based material though that is given or none at all.
This would have to include Wiccan, FSM, or even Satanism as well.
Maybe just set up a rack with religious material for all those wishing material other than Bibles.
Though I can see the day when there is a religious "portfolio" as we see in motels for restaurants and such.

Since I was fortunate enough to see my Dad get full Military rites, I suppose I'm not as objective .
 
I see no issue with the Bibles. They are there as a courtesy. They are not required to open it.
 
Is there a market for selling Gideon Bibles? If everyone got together for a buck each, could be a party.
 
Why don't they carry their own, instead of relying on government handouts?

For the same reason we feed the useless, those capable of working but relying on govt handouts.
 
Gideon Bibles are not government handouts. They are absolutely 100% privately funded.

As nearly as I can determine after looking at a number of news sources from ABC to the AP to WAPO to several on line news sources, some Navy authority decided it was inappropriate to allow the Gideons to place the Bibles in Navy lodges and ordered them removed. Some sources referred to this as a 'removal of the Bibles' and some sources referred to it as a 'ban'. It seems pretty silly not to see the two terms as interchangeable.

However, apparently some Navy families noticed the absence of the Bibles and inquired and, when they found out the Bibles were prohibited from being placed in the rooms, they protested. The Navy reversed the order and allowed the Bibles to be returned to the rooms.

The Gideons have been around since 1899 and since that time have placed 1.9 billion and counting Bibles in hotel/motel rooms and have furnished Bibles to schools and colleges, prisons and jails, hospitals, and medical offices all over the world--they provide free Bibles to all who want or will accept them. They see their Christian ministry as sharing the word of God via speaking engagements, talking one on one with people, and making the scriptures available to all who need or want them.

If a Mosque or Islamic group or another religious group wanted to place their holy books in the lodges, then no doubt the Navy would also allow that too. To the best of my knowledge, nobody but the Gideons engages in that particular ministry.
 
As long as no one is forced to read them, I don't have a problem with the Bible or any other book being there.
 
Gideon Bibles are not government handouts. They are absolutely 100% privately funded.

As nearly as I can determine after looking at a number of news sources from ABC to the AP to WAPO to several on line news sources, some Navy authority decided it was inappropriate to allow the Gideons to place the Bibles in Navy lodges and ordered them removed. Some sources referred to this as a 'removal of the Bibles' and some sources referred to it as a 'ban'. It seems pretty silly not to see the two terms as interchangeable.

However, apparently some Navy families noticed the absence of the Bibles and inquired and, when they found out the Bibles were prohibited from being placed in the rooms, they protested. The Navy reversed the order and allowed the Bibles to be returned to the rooms.

The Gideons have been around since 1899 and since that time have placed 1.9 billion and counting Bibles in hotel/motel rooms and have furnished Bibles to schools and colleges, prisons and jails, hospitals, and medical offices all over the world--they provide free Bibles to all who want or will accept them. They see their Christian ministry as sharing the word of God via speaking engagements, talking one on one with people, and making the scriptures available to all who need or want them.

If a Mosque or Islamic group or another religious group wanted to place their holy books in the lodges, then no doubt the Navy would also allow that too. To the best of my knowledge, nobody but the Gideons engages in that particular ministry.

Everything you say here is accurate, but still manages to miss where this is problematic. At issue is that with a bible in these rooms, it can appear as the government endorsing a particular religion. That would be a nono. Since from my reading the eventual outcome is not known, replacing the bibles, which may have to be removed again later, seems kinda silly. Probably should have waited for a final determination before deciding to do this.
 
Just to clarify, Navy Lodge is not barracks for sailors or any other form of quarters unless it is special circumstances. Navy Lodges are onbase hotels for military personnel and their families that are generally cheaper. The times they act as quarters is generally for temporary duty where there are some sort of special circumstances or it is a really shortterm assignment.

I have stayed at a Navy Lodge several times with my family and bibles were always in the rooms.:confused:
 
Everything you say here is accurate, but still manages to miss where this is problematic. At issue is that with a bible in these rooms, it can appear as the government endorsing a particular religion. That would be a nono. Since from my reading the eventual outcome is not known, replacing the bibles, which may have to be removed again later, seems kinda silly. Probably should have waited for a final determination before deciding to do this.

But the government is not endorsing a particular religion. The government is not providing the Bibles. It is simply allowing the Gideons to do a kindness to those who use the Lodge rooms. Unless it would deny any others the ability to place their holy book in the rooms--and no other group has any inclination to do so--it is unreasonable to think the government is endorsing anything. The Bibles are not an establishment of religion, they pose no problem to natural security nor harm anybody, and to deny them a corner in a drawer, space needed by nobody, would be unnecessarily cruel and inhumane to people who draw on their faith to get them through whatever they have to face. And to deny them because somebody might be hateful enough or mean spirited enough to deny somebody that because they would erroneously say it established religion would just be plain dumb.
 
But the government is not endorsing a particular religion. The government is not providing the Bibles. It is simply allowing the Gideons to do a kindness to those who use the Lodge rooms. Unless it would deny any others the ability to place their holy book in the rooms--and no other group has any inclination to do so--it is unreasonable to think the government is endorsing anything. The Bibles are not an establishment of religion, they pose no problem to natural security nor harm anybody, and to deny them a corner in a drawer, space needed by nobody, would be unnecessarily cruel and inhumane to people who draw on their faith to get them through whatever they have to face. And to deny them because somebody might be hateful enough or mean spirited enough to deny somebody that because they would erroneously say it established religion would just be plain dumb.

If I remember right, and I am not going to look it up before going to bed, so take this for what it is worth, the standard is whether a reasonable person could interpret it as an endorsement of a particular religion. If a reasonable person stays at a navy lodge and finds the bible in their room, would they see it as the navy endorsing Christianity? I would kinda think that is quite possible.

Note: I am not suggesting the bibles are an endorsement, nor that it really was harmful, nor that it was worth the efforts of those who complained. I actually find it annoying that people target little stuff like this. However, once some one does complain, then you are in a situation where it does have to be taken seriously. I am not going to speculate on the outcome, but pending an actual outcome, it would have been best to keep the bibles out of the rooms.
 
Around 70-80% of our military personnel profess Christianity.

I don't have the figures in front of me, but I'd guess less than 1% profess Islam.


Yes, it does make a difference.

So why can't they buy their own bibles?
 
Because the Giddeons donate those Bibles.

The Giddeons are the suppliers and have continued to do so, but I suspect that the practice arose out of the McCarthy era.

Now as to the thread in general, yes if the Giddeons are donating the bibles then I see no issue with them being placed in the lodge rooms. However, should other similar texts (Koran, Torah, etc) also be donated in a similar manner and are not placed within the rooms then we have an issue.
 
Back
Top Bottom