• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

Until now, I've stayed clear of this thread topic waiting instead for more details/evidence to come out. I think folks need to take a step back on both sides.

Those who are saying wait until the details come out are correct. We really don't know why the Ferguson police stopped Michael Brown and his friend/associate. However, danarhea makes some good points. For example, people have jumped on this "Michael Brown robbed a store before being shot" storyline but there's no proof of that as this video would indicate. Ferguson police didn't even know about the store incident before they approached him. So, why stop the guy?

If you watch the alleged robbery video, it doesn't appear that Michael Brown had a weapon. To me it looks his hands were filled with merchandise he intended to buy. The footage shows him (or a man who looks like him) approach the counter and it appears he laid his stuff down. The next cut shows the altercation between Brown and the store clerk, but again you don't see a weapon. All you see is Brown grab the man by his shirt collar, still with merchandise in hand, as attempts to leaves the store. And then he stalks out. That's it. (Sidenote: Furthermore, it doesn't look like cigars he's carrying. It looks more like he has fists full of snack cakes or Slim Jims - too bulking and too long to be cigars. But if such were found on him, at this point I'd be hard pressed to support the claim that he stole them. After all, empty Cigarillos shells are often used to smoke marijuana. He may have already had those beforehand.

Now, is it possible that the police were made aware of a robbery after they'd already stopped Michael Brown and his friend and one of them panicked? OR that Michael and his friend both refused to go quietly because they believed they were right to walk the streets without harming anyone? Is it possible the cops acted wrong or had the wrong men? Again, from the video it doesn't appear that Michael had cigars in his hands and you don't see a weapon. Of course, the news report never says "armed robbery". Think about that for a moment...

You see, folks who are laying blame on those who they claim are "jumping to conclusions" about the police shooting a robbery suspect who many say was a good kid are also being quick to judge the kid as a criminal similar to how Treyvon Martin was portrayed when word go out about his troubles in school. Is it possible that Michael Brown was, in fact, a good kid who believed he was being cheated at checkout and pushed the store clerk simply because he was frustrated? We don't see whether money was placed on the counter any more than we see Michael draw a weapon. So, we really don't know if the kid entered the store with criminal intent. But, I would agree on principle that if you walk out of a store without paying for merchandise it is theft. But robbery in this case? Looks like a stretch to me.

Nonetheless, Michael Brown was obviously a big 18 yr old Black male when compared with the store clerk. Is it possible that the Ferguson police officer jumped the gun here? Again, could he have received word of a recent robbery, believed that Michael Brown and his friend fit the description given, panicked when they heard the word "robbery suspects" (assuming that's how they were described) and then upon seeing how big this kid was acted hastily?

Regardless of what one believes happened here, one thing is clear: You DON'T shoot an unarmed man with his hands up.

I'm still listening attentively to the news reports and such, but I'd have to agree with danarhea here. Something just isn't right about this.
Your understanding of what is already known is severely flawed.
He stole the cigars.
He had the damn cigars in his hands when the Officer confronted him.
And Brown was seen all up on the Officer's car, and then later seen approaching the Officer.


And most telling, is that Brown handed his cohort a box of the cigars and that cohort put them back on the counter saying that he "didn't steal".
 
Until now, I've stayed clear of this thread topic waiting instead for more details/evidence to come out. I think folks need to take a step back on both sides.

Those who are saying wait until the details come out are correct. We really don't know why the Ferguson police stopped Michael Brown and his friend/associate. However, danarhea makes some good points. For example, people have jumped on this "Michael Brown robbed a store before being shot" storyline but there's no proof of that as this video would indicate. Ferguson police didn't even know about the store incident before they approached him. So, why stop the guy?

If you watch the alleged robbery video, it doesn't appear that Michael Brown had a weapon. To me it looks his hands were filled with merchandise he intended to buy. The footage shows him (or a man who looks like him) approach the counter and it appears he laid his stuff down. The next cut shows the altercation between Brown and the store clerk, but again you don't see a weapon. All you see is Brown grab the man by his shirt collar, still with merchandise in hand, as attempts to leaves the store. And then he stalks out. That's it. (Sidenote: Furthermore, it doesn't look like cigars he's carrying. It looks more like he has fists full of snack cakes or Slim Jims - too bulking and too long to be cigars. But if such were found on him, at this point I'd be hard pressed to support the claim that he stole them. After all, empty Cigarillos shells are often used to smoke marijuana. He may have already had those beforehand.

Now, is it possible that the police were made aware of a robbery after they'd already stopped Michael Brown and his friend and one of them panicked? OR that Michael and his friend both refused to go quietly because they believed they were right to walk the streets without harming anyone? Is it possible the cops acted wrong or had the wrong men? Again, from the video it doesn't appear that Michael had cigars in his hands and you don't see a weapon. Of course, the news report never says "armed robbery". Think about that for a moment...

You see, folks who are laying blame on those who they claim are "jumping to conclusions" about the police shooting a robbery suspect who many say was a good kid are also being quick to judge the kid as a criminal similar to how Treyvon Martin was portrayed when word go out about his troubles in school. Is it possible that Michael Brown was, in fact, a good kid who believed he was being cheated at checkout and pushed the store clerk simply because he was frustrated? We don't see whether money was placed on the counter any more than we see Michael draw a weapon. So, we really don't know if the kid entered the store with criminal intent. But, I would agree on principle that if you walk out of a store without paying for merchandise it is theft. But robbery in this case? Looks like a stretch to me.

Nonetheless, Michael Brown was obviously a big 18 yr old Black male when compared with the store clerk. Is it possible that the Ferguson police officer jumped the gun here? Again, could he have received word of a recent robbery, believed that Michael Brown and his friend fit the description given, panicked when they heard the word "robbery suspects" (assuming that's how they were described) and then upon seeing how big this kid was acted hastily?

Regardless of what one believes happened here, one thing is clear: You DON'T shoot an unarmed man with his hands up.

I'm still listening attentively to the news reports and such, but I'd have to agree with danarhea here. Something just isn't right about this.

Dorian Johnson admitted that he and Brown participated in a robbery, prior to the shooting.
 
I have been hard at work this week but have been following this on the news both British and American. What has stuck out for me was how quickly the media rallied behind the victim and started a witch hunt against the Officer behind the shooting and the police force as a whole. Before any evidence has been released they painted Brown as a law abiding citizen with University in his immediate future, just a young kid full of dreams and no threat to anyone. The media demanded information and when some was released they cried foul. Apparently the fact that Brown had committed robbery and assaulted someone wasn't the information they required in fact it was deemed as unimportant but yet the name of the officer however was at the upmost importance. No ballistic reports, no dispatch reports, no police testimonies and no autopsy instead they wanted a name.....The media fuelled this and the media continue to feed it. Disgraceful
 
I have been hard at work this week but have been following this on the news both British and American. What has stuck out for me was how quickly the media rallied behind the victim and started a witch hunt against the Officer behind the shooting and the police force as a whole. Before any evidence has been released they painted Brown as a law abiding citizen with University in his immediate future, just a young kid full of dreams and no threat to anyone. The media demanded information and when some was released they cried foul. Apparently the fact that Brown had committed robbery and assaulted someone wasn't the information they required in fact it was deemed as unimportant but yet the name of the officer however was at the upmost importance. No ballistic reports, no dispatch reports, no police testimonies and no autopsy instead they wanted a name.....The media fuelled this and the media continue to feed it. Disgraceful

Well, the United States in in the process of changing from a Constitutional Republic to a Leninist Dictatorship. These things are bound to happen during the transition. It will probably be a few years and there will be a little more bloodshed but eventually the bourgeoisie will be eradicated and everyone will live in blissful harmony.
 
Well, the United States in in the process of changing from a Constitutional Republic to a Leninist Dictatorship. These things are bound to happen during the transition. It will probably be a few years and there will be a little more bloodshed but eventually the bourgeoisie will be eradicated and everyone will live in blissful harmony.

I was in London during our riots a few years ago which started over something very similar. What was surprising to me was how quickly the masses took advantage of it and started rioting and looting. That was eventually end with an increased police presence and mass arrests.
 
I was in London during our riots a few years ago which started over something very similar. What was surprising to me was how quickly the masses took advantage of it and started rioting and looting. That was eventually end with an increased police presence and mass arrests.

They're not stopping the rioting in Ferguson.
 
They're not stopping the rioting in Ferguson.

They could though very easily. Couple of water cannons and some riot shields always do the trick, none of this military hardware nonsense.
 
I was in London during our riots a few years ago which started over something very similar. What was surprising to me was how quickly the masses took advantage of it and started rioting and looting. That was eventually end with an increased police presence and mass arrests.

It's unlikely that we'll see that here. There will be riots but as long as the rioters are from racially or economically repressed classes the response of the authorities will be muted. Those authorities will need to be used to restrain those who object to the uprisings. In particular, property owners and Capitalists will need to be contained because they will inevitably seek to retain their stranglehold on the proletariat.
 
It's unlikely that we'll see that here. There will be riots but as long as the rioters are from racially or economically repressed classes the response of the authorities will be muted. Those authorities will need to be used to restrain those who object to the uprisings. In particular, property owners and Capitalists will need to be contained because they will inevitably seek to retain their stranglehold on the proletariat.


Why is that? Has middle America lost it's balls?
 
I could care less what the police 'say'.

Or what the angry mob 'says'.

When it is proven in court - one way or another - THEN I will care what is said.


And I am not buying for one second that this rioting/protests for the VAST majority of these protesters is anything but frustration with their lives finding a venue to express rage.

They are pissed with their lives (for various reasons - some legitimate, some not-so-much), want attention and - guess what? - it's working...they are getting TONS of attention.


I have NO idea if the cops are/were wrong or not.

That is for a court to decide.

Not the media or the masses or the cops.
 
I could care less what the police 'say'.

Or what the angry mob 'says'.

When it is proven in court - one way or another - THEN I will care what is said.


And I am not buying for one second that this rioting/protests for the VAST majority of these protesters is anything but frustration with their lives finding a venue to express rage.

They are pissed with their lives (for various reasons - some legitimate, some not-so-much), want attention and - guess what? - it's working...they are getting TONS of attention.


I have NO idea if the cops are/were wrong or not.

That is for a court to decide.

Not the media or the masses or the cops.

Little by little we're seeing these situations get nationalized. The law is becoming less relevant while political optics is becoming the determining factor with regard to the distribution of "justice".
 
It is hard to find accurate information on this case because the media has meddled with it so much.

For instance, i cant find a direct link to the statement made by the chief involving the incident.

Some say the cop didnt know brown robbed the store, some say he had no idea a robbery had occurred at all.

Then others say the cop responded to a tobbery.

The idea that the cop just happened to address brown for jaywalking seems absurd to me.

It would seem more logical that the cop responded to a robbery, did not know who the suspect was but had a description, then sees brown who fit the description, and approaches.

Its once again disappointing for the media to immediately start spinning the story. Stating how he was just a teenager who has never been in trouble and graduated high school.

It is very similar to the trayvon martin incident.

Ill tell you this, whether the kid was armed or not, he is enormous. Its all about the reasonableness. If an officer fights someone and believes his life could be in danger, the supreme court has stated that deadly force is permitted. Given browns size. The ifficer's actions seem reasonable if indeed brown was fighting him.
 
They could though very easily. Couple of water cannons and some riot shields always do the trick, none of this military hardware nonsense.

LOL !!
Are you kidding ?

They're already too scared to confront these looters because they know their actions will be parsed down into 20 second you tube videos and distributed all over Cable News.

Water Cannons ?

Yea, I cant wait to see the side by side shot comparisons to the Selma police knocking down protestors with water Cannons in 1963.

This whole push against " militarism " of the Police is such BS.

You do realize it took the California National Guard to shut down the LA Riots in 1992.
 
Little by little we're seeing these situations get nationalized. The law is becoming less relevant while political optics is becoming the determining factor with regard to the distribution of "justice".

Exactly, and the rioting continues.

Because to give the Police the gear and authority needed to protect the Community would look bad, and we can't have that.

Small shops being looted and burned to the ground ? That's tolerable now.
 
LOL !!
Are you kidding ?

They're already too scared to confront these looters because they know their actions will be parsed down into 20 second you tube videos and distributed all over Cable News.

Water Cannons ?

Yea, I cant wait to see the side by side shot comparisons to the Selma police knocking down protestors with water Cannons in 1963.

This whole push against " militarism " of the Police is such BS.

You do realize it took the California National Guard to shut down the LA Riots in 1992.

Bad policing then. Take a look at how European police forces deal with riots, football hooligans etc, it isn't with sniper rifles and tanks.
 
I could care less what the police 'say'.

Or what the angry mob 'says'.

When it is proven in court - one way or another - THEN I will care what is said.



And I am not buying for one second that this rioting/protests for the VAST majority of these protesters is anything but frustration with their lives finding a venue to express rage.

They are pissed with their lives (for various reasons - some legitimate, some not-so-much), want attention and - guess what? - it's working...they are getting TONS of attention.


I have NO idea if the cops are/were wrong or not.

That is for a court to decide.

Not the media or the masses or the cops.


I personally believe there is nothing wrong with having and opinion on the issue.
 
Not saying anyone who robs a convenience store should be or deserves to be shot, but if there is truth to the story, it certainly changes some things, not the least among which is the credibility of the witness that some are insisting on here is rock solid.

It does prove that he was certainly not that "good boy" that his mama claimed he was.
 
This is starting to look like another rush to judgement by the media and their simple minded parrots. Its like Trayvon Martin all over gain.

I have been just watching to see more information. I want to know the truth before I stick my foot in my mouth and make any ASSumptions.

More information just in recorded inadvertently by two more witnesses right after shooting:
A Witness Conversation Unknowingly Captured at the Scene of the Ferguson Shooting is a Game-Changer
 
Where's the fun in that?


I could care less what the police 'say'.

Or what the angry mob 'says'.

When it is proven in court - one way or another - THEN I will care what is said.


And I am not buying for one second that this rioting/protests for the VAST majority of these protesters is anything but frustration with their lives finding a venue to express rage.

They are pissed with their lives (for various reasons - some legitimate, some not-so-much), want attention and - guess what? - it's working...they are getting TONS of attention.


I have NO idea if the cops are/were wrong or not.

That is for a court to decide.

Not the media or the masses or the cops.
 
Bad policing then. Take a look at how European police forces deal with riots, football hooligans etc, it isn't with sniper rifles and tanks.


Soccer Hooliganism has always interested me but when they riot they're typically not armed with firearms. I say give the Police the needed equipment to deal with rioters because they're going to be the first responders.

Without a sizable force of well armed Police looting can carry on for days. Think LA 1992.

It took the California National Guard to finally shut down those riots.
 
Bad policing then. Take a look at how European police forces deal with riots, football hooligans etc, it isn't with sniper rifles and tanks.

Ok, don't exaggerate. There weren't any tanks and probably no snipers.
 
Back
Top Bottom