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U.S. Weighs Military Rescue Mission for Yazidi Refugees

US Conservative said:
What are you talking about? Disaster relief and other humanitarian services are a high profile and successful way to project power in the world.
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And a giant show of compassion which in turn has you viewed not as the great satan but as someone you'd like. Construction over destruction wins out in the long run.
 
US Conservative said:
What are you talking about? Disaster relief and other humanitarian services are a high profile and successful way to project power in the world.
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poweRob said:
And a giant show of compassion which in turn has you viewed not as the great satan but as someone you'd like. Construction over destruction wins out in the long run.
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Wasn't really talking about Disaster relief.

I was thinking more of how we originally got involved in Lebanon and Somalia because of their humanitarian crises... we all know who those turned out.
 
Hamster Buddha said:
Wasn't really talking about Disaster relief.

I was thinking more of how we originally got involved in Lebanon and Somalia because of their humanitarian crises... we all know who those turned out.
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Gotcha... I still think genocide is a line that can't be crossed.
 
US Conservative said:
Marxism is a dated policy of failure, Capitalism delivers wealth to even the poorest and works better-if it was about building things up you'd be about capitalism-but you never were.
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You are not only extremely desperate to the point you are trying to drive a whole thread off topic to get in a partisan jab... you also don't have a grasp on the meaning of words in the process. How about we get back on topic? The topic has nothing to do with the US economy, Marxism or capitalism. Hope that helps guide you back.
 
poweRob said:
You are not only extremely desperate to the point you are trying to drive a whole thread off topic to get in a partisan jab... you also don't have a grasp on the meaning of words in the process. How about we get back on topic? The topic has nothing to do with the US economy, Marxism or capitalism. Hope that helps guide you back.
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These people are experiencing genocide because Obama left them to the wolves-lets never forget that.
 
US Conservative said:
These people are experiencing genocide because Obama left them to the wolves-lets never forget that.
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There you go. Now these jabs have you at least standing in the right ring.
 
Grant said:
This is interesting.
"A rescue mission could expose U.S. forces to direct fire from the militant group Islamic State, also known as ISIS, and that is a risk Mr. Obama may not be willing to accept".

This decision should be left to the military rather than a politician more interested in the polls than displaying any form of leadership. The US Military, if it has the opportunity to get serious and out of the political realm, would never be too concerned about 'direct fire' or 'risk'. All that would be taken into account and a calculated response quickly forthcoming.
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Yes. Unelected officers should make decisions on military intervention, not elected officials. That's not a dangerous precedent at all.
 
MadLib said:
Yes. Unelected officers should make decisions on military intervention, not elected officials. That's not a dangerous precedent at all.
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Yeah... I thought it was too damn doofy to even answer. Congrats on being the stronger man that did. lol
 
poweRob said:
You actually think you can build a coalition with Turkey and Kurds in it together? They are damn near as mortal enemies as Sunnis vs Shi'ites.
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Yes, Turkey would gain something out of it and the Kurds would too. PKK would give up fight in Turkey and Kurds would get Kurdistan out of Northern Iraq. Both sides do hate each other but both sides want to be rid of each other. That is a way to do it.
 
US Conservative said:
I dont see these geopolitical adversaries coming together over this. Would it be better to just give our allies bombs and missles so a show can be made dropping them like in Libya? Nations do things because its in their interest, not to merely collaborate

The world without a US presence wont be a wonderful place where everyone works together. It will be more of this, with the rest of the world turning a blind eye.
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Those countries have to work together or US will be back in Iraq and Middle East just as long as the British were and end up as the same fate as the British.. forced out and everything still ****ty.
 
poweRob said:
You actually think you can build a coalition with Turkey and Kurds in it together? They are damn near as mortal enemies as Sunnis vs Shi'ites.
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IIRC, Turkey and Iraqi Kurdistan actually have fairly good economic and political relations, and they work together against Kurdish insurgents in Turkey. In any case, it doesn't really benefit either of them to have an insane jihadist state on their border.
 
I red some of the posts in this forum and I figured out something. I didn't want to read all of them is what I figured out.

These people don't have time for "coalition building". Some are old and some are infants. I am not a bleeding heart by any means but this is an easy situation to deal with.

First, you are not going to get the Kurds and Turkey to work together. The Kurds want part of Turkey. Leave Turkey out of it. They are bi-polar. We can count on the Kurds and they have proven it. The Turks have proven that they are more than willing to squeeze us for money regardless of the cause.

Second, the smartest thing they have done is talk about CH-47s. An extraction, even of that many people would take a relatively short amount of time. Get some other countries to contribute some support groups through NATO. Maybe some fighter escorts. Make it an Air Assault mission. Make it big and high profile. Bring in some Puffs. There is always the risk of life.

Ultimately it is Obama's call. I wouldn't want to have to make that decision. Lately he has shown more back bone about his golf rather than making decisions. Kennedy had to make hard decisions. He bucked all of his generals and made the right choice. Obama went to Martha's Vineyard.
 
austrianecon said:
Those countries have to work together or US will be back in Iraq and Middle East just as long as the British were and end up as the same fate as the British.. forced out and everything still ****ty.
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Thats a bit far reaching, isnt it? Are you comparing Imperial Britain to the US today? Its not even close, save that both are/were superpowers.
 
austrianecon said:
Yes, Turkey would gain something out of it and the Kurds would too. PKK would give up fight in Turkey and Kurds would get Kurdistan out of Northern Iraq. Both sides do hate each other but both sides want to be rid of each other. That is a way to do it.
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Turkey and Iran may very well not want to cooperate, what then? What if the Kurds dont want to leave Turkey and Iran?
 
poweRob said:
What does this even mean?
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That it is on the other side of the world and the neighborhood should take care of the situation. We should help and support in pacifying the area. Of course. But do it ourselves? When the Arab and African Leagues don't and Turkey doesn't and the EU doesn't there are Russia and Iran. After all, they goofed in Syria where the IS comes from. Then there is the UN. After all of these have failed, we might want to do something. But why?
 
poweRob said:
Gotcha... I still think genocide is a line that can't be crossed.
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It's a nice sentiment really, and unlike some that think the US is the greatest evil to mankind, I also appreciate the fact that the US military does step into some of these situations. But if the US were to create a foreign policy based on stopping genocide around the world, we'd need easily twice the military and to begin nation building in about a dozen countries across the world. We just don't have the resources to do something on that scale. And that's ignoring the messes that would be created through us sticking our noses into each and everyone of these conflicts. And even if we stop some of these genocides, all that happens is the side that was being ... genocided... just turns around and returns the favor when we leave (a la Iraq come to think about it).
 
US Conservative said:
Turkey and Iran may very well not want to cooperate, what then? What if the Kurds dont want to leave Turkey and Iran?
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Turkey and Iran work together already and have for years. Both have economics ties in the range of $30 billion a year. 30% of Turkey's oil supply comes from Iran. It's a very complex relationship.

Kurds would leave Turkey for their own state with pressure from Iran as those groups are Iranian backed, while the Kurds in Iran are backed by Turkey. You can have a mutual agreement to cease funding in exchange for a State. Something Iran and Turkey don't exactly want but they are tired of funding the Kurds and dealing with them in their country.
 
US Conservative said:
Thats a bit far reaching, isnt it? Are you comparing Imperial Britain to the US today? Its not even close, save that both are/were superpowers.
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No, it's not far reaching. I am not comparing UK to US in occupying and colonizing but rather stepping in a hornet's nest and expecting different results. There is a reason why the British, French, and Italians said "**** this" and leave places like Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Somalia, and Afghanistan. US just hasn't learned it yet. Well, Reagan did with Lebanon.
 
joG said:
That it is on the other side of the world and the neighborhood should take care of the situation. We should help and support in pacifying the area. Of course. But do it ourselves? When the Arab and African Leagues don't and Turkey doesn't and the EU doesn't there are Russia and Iran. After all, they goofed in Syria where the IS comes from. Then there is the UN. After all of these have failed, we might want to do something. But why?
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Egypt is stepping up to the plate and others ME countries will as well, I believe, though more behind the scenes. Exclusive: With Muslim Brotherhood crushed, Egypt sets sights on Hamas | Reuters

The US should not have to be alone among the democracies and shame on those who don't help. A real problem is that many world leaders don't trust Obama, or his commitment to getting the job done.
 
austrianecon said:
Turkey and Iran work together already and have for years. Both have economics ties in the range of $30 billion a year. 30% of Turkey's oil supply comes from Iran. It's a very complex relationship.

Kurds would leave Turkey for their own state with pressure from Iran as those groups are Iranian backed, while the Kurds in Iran are backed by Turkey. You can have a mutual agreement to cease funding in exchange for a State. Something Iran and Turkey don't exactly want but they are tired of funding the Kurds and dealing with them in their country.
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Sounds nice but the Kurds aren't in those nations by chance-that is where they have lived historically. Why should 23 million people who have lived there for over 4000 years leave their homeland at the end of a turkish or Iranian gun?

I think you need to recognize the difference between what you'd like to think would be a convenient political solution to a complex problem-and the difference between it being done by force and voluntarily. If you'd support a carrot for the Kurds rather than a stick let me know.

Kurds - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
History of the Kurdish people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kurdistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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