Protests over Missouri teen's death turn violent[W:647,807]

Lursa said:

Just thinking out loud:

If white cops are incapable of fairly policing communities comprised of mostly other races, perhaps they shouldnt?

Maybe we should leave that decision up to those communities? Your choice: These cops? No cops? Provide men from your community that can qualify and will become cops?

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You don't need to ponder the possibilities. You simply have to look at urban Detroit to get some idea of how a civilization deteriorates when the police are incapable of policing a community and the community takes over that function.

Thorgasm said:

So there can't be a legitimate reason why they don't apply or run for office?

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If that was a priority for someone, or several, they would make it a priority.

It's possible for just about anyone, is it not?

Lursa said:

It depends. If an officer believes the suspect constitutes an risk to public safety, they can shoot a fleeing suspect.

Interestingly, the police chief there just said that in the *initial* contact of cop and Brown, the cop didnt know about the armed robbery. However it is possible that he received word during the confrontation that there was an armed robbery nearby, description of suspects, etc. And he may have believed he had a weapon and was a danger to the public.

It's just speculation. But we *do not know* at this point and we cant yet say.

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Yes, I know about the risk to public safety. That would be quite a stretch I think seeing as he was unarmed and put his hands up and was still shot.

j-mac said:

You really should read your own link before posting it...From your Wiki article:

"Brown was allegedly involved in a felony strong arm robbery of a box of Swisher Sweets cigars at a convenience store prior to his death."

So please don't try to paint this as some kind of young man that was just minding his own business and the cop just decided to harass him....That is simply not the case.

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Yes but the police chief clearly stated several times that that is not why the cops made initial contact.

(However we dont yet know if the cops received any info during their contact with Brown.)

CanadaJohn said:

I wanted also to note that it appears that spokespeople and relatives/friends of the "victim" here have appeared on television a number of times indicating that they don't support the riots. looting, violence and that they support the police and authorities investigating this incident "the right way". In my view, these are the people who should be getting the publicity and community support and not the lawless animals who simply want an excuse to cause havoc.

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From what we've seen and heard today in the news conference, there's a good chance that they would be asked questions about Brown's character that they may not want to answer.

Thorgasm said:

Yes, I know about the risk to public safety. That would be quite a stretch I think seeing as he was unarmed and put his hands up and was still shot.

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I dont think any of that has been confirmed yet. Except he was found to be unarmed after the fact.

Thorgasm said:

Way to distort my stance.

Once Mr.Brown broke away from the cop and was running away, he was shot, unarmed. That is what I take exception to.

Next time ask me what my stance is. It will keep you from being so wrong.

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when a white cops kills a black suspect in the middle of a black community, you will have to excuse me if I don't put all my trust in "the eyewitness accounts" like you appear to be doing.

the way I see it the man is proven(on video) to be a dangerous person to the law abiding community, therefor he doesn't get MY benefit of the doubt as he so easily gets yours. To me he is already the suspicious one from the word GO, and will continue to think that unless new facts prove otherwise.

CanadaJohn said:

It was reported this morning that there was a shot fired within the police car, reportedly resulting from Mr. Brown struggling with the officer for control of the officer's firearm.

.

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This is where it all seems so odd to me....there are reports of a struggle in the police car, but also of Brown being shot on the street fleeing.

?????

Lursa said:

This is where it all seems so odd to me....there are reports of a struggle in the police car, but also of Brown being shot on the street fleeing.

?????

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The whole damn thing is odd. Nobody has any clue what really happened from what I can see, which is why rush to judgments against either the cop or the dead man are both wrong.

JoeTrumps said:

As usual the facts come out, it turns out liberals have been defending a thug. and now we have to listen to them try to rationalize why they are still not WRONG on this issue, and that WE are all still racists.

ah liberals. never change

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Again, I'm a liberal.

"Ah conservatives, always wrong."

See how that works? It doesnt.

CanadaJohn said:

You don't need to ponder the possibilities. You simply have to look at urban Detroit to get some idea of how a civilization deteriorates when the police are incapable of policing a community and the community takes over that function.

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The point was that maybe the any community in question should be 'pondering' their options.

Has there ever been a case where a riot (violence/destruction/theft/chaos/etc.) has not done more harm than good?

JoeTrumps said:

when a white cops kills a black suspect in the middle of a black community, you will have to excuse me if I don't put all my trust in "the eyewitness accounts" like you appear to be doing.

the way I see it the man is proven(on video) to be a dangerous person to the law abiding community, therefor he doesn't get MY benefit of the doubt as he so easily gets yours. To me he is already the suspicious one from the word GO, and will continue to think that unless new facts prove otherwise.

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So if a black cop pulls over a white man in a white community, then all of the witnesses are liars also?

Fenton said:

When inner city parents and inner city culture embrace and emphasize education over every all else, things will change.

Upper class schools out perform inner city schools exponentially NOT because those schools are better funded.

Their performance can be directly tied back to the culture of upper class areas and the families that live in those areas.

Education is paramount and emphasized on a daily basis by parents who most likely possess College degrees.

Kids are directed towards positive goals and activities when they're young and introduced to the prospects of higher education years before they head off to College.

I know, its how I was raised.

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You got screwed in that English grammar class. :3oops: :lamo

SMTA said:

So if a black cop pulls over a white man in a white community, then all of the witnesses are liars also?

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that's not a good comparison. I'd say that if a black cop was involved in an incident in a heavily Italian area and the victim was Italian....yeah, I'd take the eyewitness accounts as perhaps being biased for the Italian victim. absolutely.

how does it help your point?

Texmex said:

You got screwed in that English grammar class. :3oops: :lamo

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And you've never progressed beyond the emotional maturity of a 4rth grader.

You can't even distinguish the difference between a typo and mistake in grammar.

Fenton said:

And you've never progressed beyond the emotional maturity of a 4rth grader.

You can't even distinguish the difference between a typo and mistake in grammar.

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What made your ignorant statement even more rich was it was at the beginning of your tirade about how important education is to the upper class. You closed mentioning it was that way with you. Next time you equate yourself as being superior, at least reread your posting.

JoeTrumps said:

right, because a 6'4' 300 pound man can't be a threat unless he has a gun, and can't overpower an officer and take HIS gun. gotcha

did you see the video. did you see what he did to that old man just trying to protect his own property?! and you feel good defend that person? and what does that say about you?

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In the interest of fairness, has it been confirmed that that's Brown in the video?

JoeTrumps said:

that's not a good comparison. I'd say that if a black cop was involved in an incident in a heavily Italian area and the victim was Italian....yeah, I'd take the eyewitness accounts as perhaps being biased for the Italian victim. absolutely.

how does it help your point?

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You don't understand logic, do you?

Lursa said:

This is where it all seems so odd to me....there are reports of a struggle in the police car, but also of Brown being shot on the street fleeing.

?????

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I don't have the answers, but it seems that the first time the police confronted the two young men, they told them to get off the street and walk on the sidewalk. When the police car pulled away, the young men kept walking in the street so the police car stopped and the Brown came up to the passenger side of the police car and was conferring with the officer in that seat. The officer either pulled his gun out for some reason or the gun was visible to Brown and it seems there was a struggle for the gun and the gun went off in the car. After the gun went off, Brown started to run away at which point the officer shot at him, wounding him, and supposedly Brown turned around to surrender and the officer kept shooting at him until he was on the ground.

There are no "facts" established at this point, but that appears to be the police "story". We'll know more when the autopsy results are disclosed, stating where Brown was hit and from what direction. If the story as presented above, or something similar, ends up being true, Brown is hardly an innocent murdered by a police officer but potentially a person who attempted to disarm and potentially murder a police officer. If the reports of the alleged "strong arm" robbery are correct, perhaps that information came over the police radio at the time Brown was at the police car talking with the officer. If so, Brown may have been trying to escape arrest.

It's all speculation, but that's one possible scenario that makes sense to me. An officer simply murdering Brown in the middle of the day in the middle of a populated street makes little sense to me.

Lursa said:

Just thinking out loud:

If white cops are incapable of fairly policing communities comprised of mostly other races, perhaps they shouldnt?

Maybe we should leave that decision up to those communities? Your choice: These cops? No cops? Provide men from your community that can qualify and will become cops?

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Not much bigotry in that notion.

Then, white folks wouldn't want be policed by black cops.

CanadaJohn said:

It was reported this morning that there was a shot fired within the police car, reportedly resulting from Mr. Brown struggling with the officer for control of the officer's firearm.

That's not a "fact" as you claim only to be interested in, it is simply another reported piece of information that is filtering out as most things seem to do in situations such as these.

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That is the POINT!!! If everything is merely conjecture at this point...why defend either one of these people? I am going to say partisan BS and racism.

stonewall50 said:

That is the POINT!!! If everything is merely conjecture at this point...why defend either one of these people? I am going to say partisan BS and racism.

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There's no blanket defense or condemnation of either side, from my perspective. The majority of my comments have been related to the disgusting conduct of some of the residents of Ferguson, burning and looting, after the incident, of which there is ample direct video evidence.

Lursa said:

Just thinking out loud:

If white cops are incapable of fairly policing communities comprised of mostly other races, perhaps they shouldnt?

Maybe we should leave that decision up to those communities? Your choice: These cops? No cops? Provide men from your community that can qualify and will become cops?

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I have a few black cops in my town, and I'm damn glad they're protecting me. They do a fine job in NH of policing primarily white communities (like mine).

The community of Ferguson has a choice. The black residents can apply to be officers in their town, but so far nobody has proven that they (the blacks) are trying to tip the ratio in Ferguson. So it appears as if that primarily black community didn't have a problem with their almost all white police force until Saturday. JMO.

Moot said:

Or the police could just stop harassing them for being black.

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If you call arresting people for breaking the law, harassing, then no, they should not stop harassing someone for being black. It is well known and statistically proven that black communities in areas of poverty are high crime areas. "Harassment" IMO is justified based on the evidence that these areas need additional attention and observation due to the rate of crime in those locations.