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Protests over Missouri teen's death turn violent[W:647,807]

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cpwill said:
Agreed on both counts. But patrol cops aren't geared up in the riot suits. Those come out when there are, well, riots, or the legitimate threat of violence. When you are in a neighborhood where imminent violence is a very real possibility, you have to be ready for it, or you are only going to be a victim of it, and you'll be no help to anyone (quite the opposite, you'll only demonstrate the power and futility of opposing those who gunned you down).
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My contention is we need more cops on their feet and less in the vehicles just driving by. Be prepared for sure, but until then, be approachable... then the folks will voluntarily tell you where the problems are.

cpwill said:
Sheriff Arpiao keeps getting reelected, indicating he has a pretty good participation with his public, who appear to agree with him.
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Arpiao is such a dumbass showman/politician. He keeps getting elected by scaring all the old people down there. I lived there for 12 years and I had to move because the street behind my house was EXTREMELY 3rd world. Automatic gunfire every night. Ghetto Buzzards (police helicoptors) flying overhead every night. Finally had to move when a guy was murdered about 50 yards from my front door. He plays like he's tough on illegals. That's his schtick. He orchestrates all these raids on this and that area and arrests in giant groups. Makes him look good. Meanwhile, legal citizens are rounded up because of the way they look and they lose that whole day of work and have to explain to their bosses what happened and pray they don't get fired.

Then the illegals there were so terrified of being caught and deported that they created a sub-society and would absolutely NEVER cooperate with cops. Crime exploded... because the criminals know these folks won't work with the cops. You can say "so what? they are illegals so let crime happen to them" but that crime spills over big time.
 
cpwill said:
:shrug: shall I bring out a bunch of derogatory slurs for the populaces that we are discussing the need to patrol in more?
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That's your choice. I don't think those people see Yosemite Sam as a slur. They are proud of who they are.
 
poweRob said:
My contention is we need more cops on their feet and less in the vehicles just driving by. Be prepared for sure, but until then, be approachable... then the folks will voluntarily tell you where the problems are.
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I think you're absolutely right that more police interaction is needed to not only get cooperation, but ease tensions... but you really think a cop is should go walking into a hot zone sort of neighborhood? I got shot at once, and I was just delivering papers to the place...
 
Thorgasm said:
That's your choice. I don't think those people see Yosemite Sam as a slur. They are proud of who they are.
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You do. That being the point.
 
Hamster Buddha said:
I think you're absolutely right that more police interaction is needed to not only get cooperation, but ease tensions... but you really think a cop is should go walking into a hot zone sort of neighborhood? I got shot at once, and I was just delivering papers to the place...
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Not just all of a sudden. It has to be worked in. You don't just start walking in hot zones. Work the edges. Talk to the folks. Hell knock on doors and introduce yourself. Make the hot zone implode on itself.
 
poweRob said:
My contention is we need more cops on their feet and less in the vehicles just driving by. Be prepared for sure, but until then, be approachable... then the folks will voluntarily tell you where the problems are.
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These would be the folks whose culture celebrates your murderer?

Color me skeptical.

Arpiao is such a dumbass showman/politician. He keeps getting elected by scaring all the old people down there. I lived there for 12 years and I had to move because the street behind my house was EXTREMELY 3rd world. Automatic gunfire every night. Ghetto Buzzards (police helicoptors) flying overhead every night. Finally had to move when a guy was murdered about 50 yards from my front door. He plays like he's tough on illegals. That's his schtick. He orchestrates all these raids on this and that area and arrests in giant groups. Makes him look good. Meanwhile, legal citizens are rounded up because of the way they look and they lose that whole day of work and have to explain to their bosses what happened and pray they don't get fired.

Then the illegals there were so terrified of being caught and deported that they created a sub-society and would absolutely NEVER cooperate with cops. Crime exploded... because the criminals know these folks won't work with the cops. You can say "so what? they are illegals so let crime happen to them" but that crime spills over big time.
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You are absolutely right that crime spills over - because that is what happens when you allow the soft crime of illegal immigration in. Worse crime slinks in with it.

Don't complain out of one side that cops aren't pariticipating with their populace enough and then out of the other that cops are participating too much.
 
poweRob said:
Not just all of a sudden. It has to be worked in. You don't just start walking in hot zones. Work the edges. Talk to the folks. Hell knock on doors and introduce yourself. Make the hot zone implode on itself.
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:lol: I would like to say that, since what you are decrying is the militarization of police, but what you are describing is COIN, that I find this conversation fairly entertaining :mrgreen:
 
cpwill said:
These would be the folks whose culture celebrates your murderer?

Color me skeptical.
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Celebrate murder? You are clearly too fearful and too skeptical.


cpwill said:
You are absolutely right that crime spills over - because that is what happens when you allow the soft crime of illegal immigration in. Worse crime slinks in with it.

Don't complain out of one side that cops aren't pariticipating with their populace enough and then out of the other that cops are participating too much.
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Wouldn't be an issue if you could talk to these people. They'd turn over the criminals in their neighborhoods too. But if you can't talk to them because you call them criminals and therefore you don't want to talk to them so... no deal. Cops do this all the time. They find a pot smoker and don't arrest them and work with them to roll on their dealer. But all you tough on illegals guys can't wrap your brains around how crossing a border is not as bad as killing someone so have the mentality of "screw all of them" equally.
 
poweRob said:
The Missouri attorney general's office issues annual reports that show the Ferguson police force is almost twice as likely to conduct searches of African Americans during traffic stops. But searches of whites are more likely to result in the discovery of drugs and other contraband.

link...[/INDENT]
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There is perhaps validity to that statistic. however, one cant pick and choose if you are truly seeking validity. So...historically, in addition to the "twice as likely" statistic on searches, what are the statistics on how much more likely blacks are in that county to commit violent crimes? Be involved with drug possession, distribution, or use? Commit criminal vice acts? What are the employment rates? Graduation rates? Literacy rates?
 
VanceMack said:
There is perhaps validity to that statistic. however, one cant pick and choose if you are truly seeking validity. So...historically, in addition to the "twice as likely" statistic on searches, what are the statistics on how much more likely blacks are in that county to commit violent crimes? Be involved with drug possession, distribution, or use? Commit criminal vice acts? What are the employment rates? Graduation rates? Literacy rates?
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Well the quote you that you cited showed who was more likely to be in possession. As far as other crimes or crimes in general, as I stated earlier in this thread, jobs tend to kill crime more than anything so if you want to know where the crime is anywhere, look for the poverty and jobless rates. Seem to go hand in hand no matter the race.
 
They are gassing the media now.
 
Jerry said:
At least the LA rioters waited for a verdict.
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That would be correct...A shame the rioters have the animal mentality but I read some positive articles about community members coming together to do clean up.

Amid the boarded up buildings there some positive signs in Ferguson Tuesday. People of all ages have come together to start moving Ferguson forward.

Like many in this community, Erica Hampton is outraged by what happened in Ferguson these past few days.

“I’m all for justice and I want justice to prevail, don’t get me wrong. But it’s the way you go about it.” said Erica Hampton.

She wants people to know there is still plenty of a good in this community, despite the graphic images they’ve seen on TV.

“I had to teach my son that this is just not what we do. When we want to get something done, we do it right. It’s not about destroying..” said Erica Hampton.
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Volunteers sending a positive message by cleaning up Ferguson | FOX2now.com
 
poweRob said:
Well the quote you that you cited showed who was more likely to be in possession. As far as other crimes or crimes in general, as I stated earlier in this thread, jobs tend to kill crime more than anything so if you want to know where the crime is anywhere, look for the poverty and jobless rates. Seem to go hand in hand no matter the race.
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Thats all well and good but it doesnt really answer the question. If you are citing a statistic the number of stops and searches, then you have to identify WHY the searches are being conducted and you have to look at ALL of the statistics. Unless you are just trying to score a cheap and insignificant point. Jobs may be a great answer to solving the problems of poverty, but thats not really the purview of law enforcement. Their job is designed more to serve and protect against violent crimes. So...who is more likely to commit violent crimes in Fergusen? It 'matters'. If your point is that blacks are searched in vehicle stops at a 2-1 rate, then you also have to ask at what percentage are blacks more likely to commit crimes and why are they being stopped and searched.

It MAY very well be just because the cops are all racist. Or, there MAY be a reason.
 
Jerry said:
I don't protest, I think it's dumb. I don't boycot, either.
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So you have no principles you would stand up for?

Jerry said:
Riot police wear gas masks for that very reason. Tear gas grenades to not distinguish between cop's eyes and rioter's eyes.
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Riot police only wear masks when they are using it. You have no clue when a crowd will use tear gas and that's my point. Nor do you know if some idiot might walk into an office building and pop off tear gas and cause a mass "casualty" situation and commit a much more sinister crime elsewhere.
 
Luftwaffe said:
*cracks knuckles*

Vandalism? Looting? Breaking into stores?

Get out the cuffs, fine these bastards, lock em up.

There is no need to be interested in why looting is their preferred method of protesting, there is only the need to put these people back in their places for being criminals.
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If you try to lock these guys up, and one resists and another shooting happens.. We will hear all about how it was the officers fault again.. And this will be a never ending issue. I say we should gate off crime ridden communities like this, post the army around them and let them all shoot each other until all of them are dead.
 
Cryptic said:
Not to split hairs, but I dont think tear gas per se, is not banned in combat. Rather, it is technically permissable so long as it is not used as a lethal asphixciant (thrown into bunkers where the people cannot get out and suffocate etc). It can be used to cover retreats etc.
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It's actually banned. Lachrymatory agents are banned under 1925 Geneva Protocol and the Chemical Weapons Convention. US can make it and use it against civilians as long as it's reported.
 
Capster78 said:
If you try to lock these guys up, and one resists and another shooting happens.. We will hear all about how it was the officers fault again.. And this will be a never ending issue. I say we should gate off crime ridden communities like this, post the army around them and let them all shoot each other until all of them are dead.
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Back to reality with you.
 
austrianecon said:
It's actually banned. Lachrymatory agents are banned under 1925 Geneva Protocol and the Chemical Weapons Convention. US can make it and use it against civilians as long as it's reported.
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You understand there were quite a few things the U.S didn't recognize from things in Geneva?

The U.S has done nothing unlawful, because there was no law to begin with. We didn't accept it.
 
Thorgasm said:
My father was also a marksmanship trainer too. You obviously know what you are talking about when it comes to ammo. Police around here are required to qualify regularly.

With that said, I don't think it really matters what grain or load you use when shooting an unarmed man running away from you. ;) From what I understand, his body was 35 ft. from the car, where the altercation started. He was unarmed. While I am assuming things, I assume that the eyewitnesses probably have that part correct. It's not like they all got together and got their story straight because he was the first man the police in St. Louis have ever shot and killed.
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For the sake of everyone long term I hope that is wrong. If it isn't they need to fry the cop. When a person applies for a position of authority and then abuses it they should get twice what a normal person gets. They know better. They are in a trusted position. They are representing the rest of the people that are in that agency. There should be no quarter given to someone that abuses that authority.
 
Luftwaffe said:
You understand there were quite a few things the U.S didn't recognize from things in Geneva?

The U.S has done nothing unlawful, because there was no law to begin with. We didn't accept it.
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You do realize the US signed BOTH, right?

And I never said US hasn't done anything unlawful as they haven't used it in combat. I just stated it's ironic a weapon that's banned under the Geneva Convention and the CWC is used against civilians, that is all.
 
As a sidebar, but because this is a teachable moment, one should take note of the intensity of the underlying racial tension, which contrary to the belief of some, still very much exist. Should the Republicans do the stupid and actually impeach and convict Barack Obama next year, what is happening in Fergueson will play out in every major US city.... and when some over militarized police officer actually pulls the trigger, and it will happen, we will send race relations (and urban security) back 50 years.....
 
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austrianecon said:
You do realize the US signed BOTH, right?

And I never said US hasn't done anything unlawful as they haven't used it in combat. I just stated it's ironic a weapon that's banned under the Geneva Convention and the CWC is used against civilians, that is all.
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You do realize the U.S has un-withdrawn reservations which therefor limit the applicability of the provisions of said protocol?
 
upsideguy said:
As a sidebar, but because this is a teachable moment, one should take note of the intensity of the underlying racial tension, which contrary to the belief of some, still very much exist. Should the Republicans do the stupid and actually impeach and convict Barack Obama next year, what is happening in Fergueson will play out in every major US city.... and when some over militarized police officer actually pulls the trigger, and it will happen, we will send race relations (and urban security) back 50 years.....
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"teachable moment"...

:lamo

Still cracks me up...
 
Capster78 said:
If you try to lock these guys up, and one resists and another shooting happens.. We will hear all about how it was the officers fault again.. And this will be a never ending issue. I say we should gate off crime ridden communities like this, post the army around them and let them all shoot each other until all of them are dead.
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Or the police could just stop harassing them for being black.
 
The police are going bat crazy there.. arresting journalists, gassing the public and probably worse.
 
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