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Protests over Missouri teen's death turn violent[W:647,807]

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Yup. And there have been death threats, not only against him but others not involved as well. :shock:

Citing death threats, police won’t identify officer in Michael Brown shooting | myfox8.com

Despite cries of a cover-up, there’s good reason for the silence, local officials say. Since the shooting Saturday, police have received death threats against the officer, and it’s spread from there, Ferguson Mayor James W. Knowles said Wednesday on CNN’s “New Day.”

“Hackers have tried to find personal information and display it online on social media, asking people to target myself, council members, the police chief,” he said. “The county police chief’s own home was put on Instagram, and people (were) asked to go there and assault him.”

We are living in a world quite different that the one we had even 10 years ago.

With the general availability of social networking and the perceived anonymity of digital communication people are much less hesitant to express outrageous opinions than they have been and the instantaneous digital feedback of participating in outrageous acts has caused people who might have stood on the sidelines before to jump into the mix. This can create dangers we haven't had to deal with before.

The quality of information made public in the digital age is often suspect but it's also acted on before the quality can be fully assessed. This can easily result in innocent people being put in harms way through no fault of their own. Heck, even the cops are known to act on whatever the computer spits out instead of real, boots on the ground, investigation. We have also, in my opinion, become somewhat detached from the reality of interpersonal interactions. There is less inclination to actually understand the individual behind these "viral" scenarios and people are quick to act on scant information.
 
We are living in a world quite different that the one we had even 10 years ago.

With the general availability of social networking and the perceived anonymity of digital communication people are much less hesitant to express outrageous opinions than they have been and the instantaneous digital feedback of participating in outrageous acts has caused people who might have stood on the sidelines before to jump into the mix. This can create dangers we haven't had to deal with before.

The quality of information made public in the digital age is often suspect but it's also acted on before the quality can be fully assessed. This can easily result in innocent people being put in harms way through no fault of their own. Heck, even the cops are known to act on whatever the computer spits out instead of real, boots on the ground, investigation. We have also, in my opinion, become somewhat detached from the reality of interpersonal interactions. There is less inclination to actually understand the individual behind these "viral" scenarios and people are quick to act on scant information.

Well said Luther. I couldn't agree more.
 
OR, that could simply have been the contents of the clip. That's how they train Portland police. If you're going to employ deadly force, fire until the clip is empty. Remember, deadly force is the last option. The clue for you is in the words "DEADly force".

I call BS on that. Source? Most cops are carrying semi-autos with *magazine* capacities of 17 rounds, 18 chambered. At least 15+


You shoot until the threat stops, you dont empty a *magazine* in public where innocent bystanders are.

I trained with St. Louis PD and NYPD....that was never a mandate. More like 3 to COM.
 
How scared should someone be of an unarmed man?

To be fair, it all depends on the circumstances and if you (cop) can get out of physical distance of assailant.

Cops are taught the Tueller Drill...a person inside of 22-23 feet can reach you before you can draw and fire your weapon. And that person can do harm...they can have a knife, be physically stronger, high on angel dust, get your gun, etc.

Back several yrs ago, a cop here was killed with his own gun by an aggressive naked mentally ill man. The cop was trying to help him, get him out of an intersection, and the man got his gun and killed him with it. Yes, the officer made mistakes. But if he had even "drawn" his gun he would have been crucified by the media....much less having had to use it on an 'unarmed' person.

The cop really does need to make the call based on alot of circumstances, including public safety and disciplinary action and the law. Whereas the criminals dont have to hesitate or care at all about those things. It's a clear advantage.
 
Well said Luther. I couldn't agree more.

Frankly, I'm a little freaked out by where this kind of thing might be headed.

Imagine inadvertently offending someone while in the checkout line at the grocery store. They take your picture without you knowing and run it through an app like Name Tag. inside of 5 minutes they have your name and have checked your Facebook and LinkedIn profiles. From there they run pictures of your kids and spouse through the same app. With a little searching they come up with an address for you. They then post your information on a public Bulletin Board with a rant about how you "injured" them or broadcast your information to a few of their contacts. By the time you get back home there is a protest in your front yard and your kids are scared ****less.

....and that's a rather benign scenario for what could happen.
 
Frankly, I'm a little freaked out by where this kind of thing might be headed.

Imagine inadvertently offending someone while in the checkout line at the grocery store. They take your picture without you knowing and run it through an app like Name Tag. inside of 5 minutes they have your name and have checked your Facebook and LinkedIn profiles. From there they run pictures of your kids and spouse through the same app. With a little searching they come up with an address for you. They then post your information on a public Bulletin Board with a rant about how you "injured" them or broadcast your information to a few of their contacts. By the time you get back home there is a protest in your front yard and your kids are scared ****less.

....and that's a rather benign scenario for what could happen.

And things like this have happened. Remember a few years back when the Occupiers showed up in CT in buses, protesting outside the homes of Wall Streeters, scaring the **** out of their kids?

My father was an executive with a Fortune 100 company whose name shall remain nameless (he was the CFO). His company used to put out a little booklet (pocket sized) with the names, addresses, phone numbers, and spouses' names of the senior executives. Nobody worried about it (that was in the 1960s). In the 1970s they stopped the practice for safety purposes. Now you can get everyone's address with a few keystrokes. Scary.

I don't blame the PD in this case for withholding the officer's name. WTF would be the reason to make it public? No good can come out of it, and based on the behavior of some monsters in that town, it really would not be good.
 
And things like this have happened. Remember a few years back when the Occupiers showed up in CT in buses, protesting outside the homes of Wall Streeters, scaring the **** out of their kids?

My father was an executive with a Fortune 100 company whose name shall remain nameless (he was the CFO). His company used to put out a little booklet (pocket sized) with the names, addresses, phone numbers, and spouses' names of the senior executives. Nobody worried about it (that was in the 1960s). In the 1970s they stopped the practice for safety purposes. Now you can get everyone's address with a few keystrokes. Scary.

I don't blame the PD in this case for withholding the officer's name. WTF would be the reason to make it public? No good can come out of it, and based on the behavior of some monsters in that town, it really would not be good.

I sure do remember that!

In one incident they either blew up or attempted to blow up the propane tank on someone's grill. Some people scoff at the idea of a "Zombie Apocalypse" but we're not too damned far from such a scenario.
 
"No Justice, No Peace" is the typical meme protesters chant,
while damage is occurring within their own community.
They want instant gratification not justice, as justice takes time to achieve.
 
It's why we get a bad wrap.

Most people claim that we are very evolved, but sadly when push comes to shove our basic animal instincts take over (often fueled by rage) and we are not much better than a pack of wild chimps running amok.
 
"No Justice, No Peace" is the typical meme protesters chant,
while damage is occurring within their own community.
They want instant gratification not justice, as justice takes time to achieve.


No, they want free s***, quickly.
 
Read a few pages in this thread... and started laughing at all the suburban white folks discussing gang signs and how they identify them.

jay-z-laugh-o.gif


Then, I was a little bit sad because it made me realize how many people there are on this forum that pull **** out of their asses without having a clue what it is they're talking about.

58311588-cry-gif-.gif


First, I looked at this post:

Find something about his character that was positive first...

I have no idea what this means... are you swearing at Cosby or insulting his race?

No. The are not. Hint: if they are not the same then that means that they are not the same. Different fingers being up means, literally, that they are not the same. Make some gang signs with some thugs that are not the same and see the laughter you get. I have. You should try and learn something about gang signs instead of sounding like you know what the hell you are talking about when you obviously do not.

First and foremost, the gangs have a pretty large array of gang signs. That sign that Spock from Star Trek makes? Vice Lords. That heavy metal sign? MS13. Crossed fingers? Ñetas. Placing your fingers in a way to signal size and creating a C? Crips. So yeah, pretty much anything is a gang sign. In short, putting out your fingers the way he did is pretty common in pictures by ghetto kids whether they're in gangs or not. It's not really something which can be associated with a gang.

However, let's say for argument's sake he really was throwing up a gang sign. Making a gang sign makes you a gang member the way holding a guitar makes you a musician. It doesn't matter the context. It's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Being a baby-G, affiliated, initiated or OG doesn't work like that. Doing a gang sign in the ghetto won't get you killed. This isn't 1983. The overwhelming majority of neighborhoods where people are getting killed are neighborhoods with turf wars going on. However, even if it was the early days of the crack epidemic, you'd mostly get your ass kicked and it'd be done. Gang murders happen because you tried to come and sell product in an area that was already controlled by someone else. Don't believe me? Ask Frank Lucas.

Source: I know a little bit about these things.

As far as the rioting goes... I can't say I'm all that surprised but I don't condone it.
 
Read a few pages in this thread... and started laughing at all the suburban white folks discussing gang signs and how they identify them.

jay-z-laugh-o.gif


Then, I was a little bit sad because it made me realize how many people there are on this forum that pull **** out of their asses without having a clue what it is they're talking about.

58311588-cry-gif-.gif


First, I looked at this post:



First and foremost, the gangs have a pretty large array of gang signs. That sign that Spock from Star Trek makes? Vice Lords. That heavy metal sign? MS13. Crossed fingers? Ñetas. Placing your fingers in a way to signal size and creating a C? Crips. So yeah, pretty much anything is a gang sign. In short, putting out your fingers the way he did is pretty common in pictures by ghetto kids whether they're in gangs or not. It's not really something which can be associated with a gang.

However, let's say for argument's sake he really was throwing up a gang sign. Making a gang sign makes you a gang member the way holding a guitar makes you a musician. It doesn't matter the context. It's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Being a baby-G, affiliated, initiated or OG doesn't work like that. Doing a gang sign in the ghetto won't get you killed. This isn't 1983. The overwhelming majority of neighborhoods where people are getting killed are neighborhoods with turf wars going on. However, even if it was the early days of the crack epidemic, you'd mostly get your ass kicked and it'd be done. Gang murders happen because you tried to come and sell product in an area that was already controlled by someone else. Don't believe me? Ask Frank Lucas.

Source: I know a little bit about these things.

As far as the rioting goes... I can't say I'm all that surprised but I don't condone it.

Is the Obama fist bump a gang sign or not?
 
Is the Obama fist bump a gang sign or not?

If a white kid does a gang sign, he's not in the "right context". If a black kid does it... "he is". However, what is the "right context" for being a thug? Throwing up a set and living in the ghetto? Ridiculous. The reality is that the majority of people taking pictures with gang signs up are posers. They see their favorite rappers doing hand signs and then emulate them. The majority of them don't know what the signs mean anymore than the white kids doing the same thing in suburbia. It doesn't matter whether they live in the ghetto or not. They see the Lil'Waynes and French Montana's of the world doing gang signs and they think that these people really are living the lifestyle.

So they copy the signs to make themselves look tougher even if they're well educated kids who have bright futures. White people on internet forums eat it up. They really do. However, I can't blame them. They're not really part of the culture and have no clue what it takes to actually be a gang member. It use to be that the minute you were part of a gang, you got tattoos. However, even that isn't enough nowadays. I personally know of Crips in Canada and the US who wear suits, live in condos and eat in $400 a plate restaurants. You wouldn't be able to tell they're gang members. No tats, they don't throw gang signs. So where does that leave the white folks who use to recognize gang members through their ghettoness? Well stumped really. They know gang membership the same way many of these kids do. Through movies and MTV videos.
 
"No Justice, No Peace" is the typical meme protesters chant,
while damage is occurring within their own community.
They want instant gratification not justice, as justice takes time to achieve.
At least the LA rioters waited for a verdict.
 
At least the LA rioters waited for a verdict.

Well, it would be out of character for a former segregationist state to convict or objectively investigate a police officer accused of killing any man black or white. Hell, the way these things play out is that the police unions try to delay the case as long as possible. Then all white juries of none of your peers find the cops not guilty. Conservatives point at how great the justice system is - until the TSA searches an old white grandmother and Liberals complain until some redneck is arrested for pointing guns at police officers. 'Tis the way the world works.
 
Read a few pages in this thread... and started laughing at all the suburban white folks discussing gang signs and how they identify them.

jay-z-laugh-o.gif


Then, I was a little bit sad because it made me realize how many people there are on this forum that pull **** out of their asses without having a clue what it is they're talking about.

58311588-cry-gif-.gif


First, I looked at this post:



First and foremost, the gangs have a pretty large array of gang signs. That sign that Spock from Star Trek makes? Vice Lords. That heavy metal sign? MS13. Crossed fingers? Ñetas. Placing your fingers in a way to signal size and creating a C? Crips. So yeah, pretty much anything is a gang sign. In short, putting out your fingers the way he did is pretty common in pictures by ghetto kids whether they're in gangs or not. It's not really something which can be associated with a gang.

However, let's say for argument's sake he really was throwing up a gang sign. Making a gang sign makes you a gang member the way holding a guitar makes you a musician. It doesn't matter the context. It's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Being a baby-G, affiliated, initiated or OG doesn't work like that. Doing a gang sign in the ghetto won't get you killed. This isn't 1983. The overwhelming majority of neighborhoods where people are getting killed are neighborhoods with turf wars going on. However, even if it was the early days of the crack epidemic, you'd mostly get your ass kicked and it'd be done. Gang murders happen because you tried to come and sell product in an area that was already controlled by someone else. Don't believe me? Ask Frank Lucas.

Source: I know a little bit about these things.

As far as the rioting goes... I can't say I'm all that surprised but I don't condone it.

I assume you were agreeing with my last paragraph. You are right about what you say. This isn't the early 80's. Gangs care about turf and product.

Side note. I gave a hang loose sign to some students as I was driving by and some Westside gang guy was with them and got upset and wanted to know who I was. They said I was their teacher and he looked embarrassed for making an issue out of it.
 
At least the LA rioters waited for a verdict.

They're demanding a 'murder charge' against the officer not a verdict. First things, first.
 
I really don't believe that. It would be incredibly stupid to waste all of your ammunition in a panicked frenzy.

True Story Time!!!

So there I was in Police Academy back in 2006 and we were doing some of our "scenario training", so there I was backup officer on this scenario and the primary, a retired Air Force "Security Police" NCO, had worked through the scenario and gotten to a point where use of deadly force was required, and he "bang bang bang"-ed off a few simulated shots and stopped, and then got heckled by one of the Officer/instructors about stopping shooting so soon, so he sarcastically continued "Bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang" then motioned a "simulated" magazine change, and started yelling bang bang bang bang again until they had to yell over him to stop.

So, just a nice little anecdotal story to go along with what clownboy stated in his post that you quoted.
 
As far as the rioting goes... I can't say I'm all that surprised but I don't condone it.

Translation:



Im sure someone will try to peg me as racist.... But it fits the bill for the rioting situation like no other.....
 
I assume you were agreeing with my last paragraph. You are right about what you say. This isn't the early 80's. Gangs care about turf and product.

I'm disagreeing with your nonsense. Throwing up your fingers in any type of weird combination makes you a gang member the same way that holding a guitar makes you a musician. Besides, Missouri isn't Vice Lord territory. They're mostly a Chicago gang.
 
I'm disagreeing with your nonsense. Throwing up your fingers in any type of weird combination makes you a gang member the same way that holding a guitar makes you a musician. Besides, Missouri isn't Vice Lord territory. They're mostly a Chicago gang.

Jesus ****ing Christ Almighty! I was arguing against throwing up your fingers means you are a gang member. I was saying that the kid flashing whatever sign that was did not mean he was a gang member and that those arguing he was are morons. What ever dude, fall back into your bull**** if you like...
 
Translation:



Im sure someone will try to peg me as racist.... But it fits the bill for the rioting situation like no other.....


.. Are you intentionally trying to parody yourself?
 
Jesus ****ing Christ Almighty! I was arguing against throwing up your fingers means you are a gang member. I was saying that the kid flashing whatever sign that was did not mean he was a gang member and that those arguing he was are morons. What ever dude, fall back into your bull**** if you like...

I apologize. I got your comments mixed up with clownboy's in your exchange with him.
 
I seriously doubt the officer missed center mass the first 8 shots. The man was unarmed. Even if the officer's canned claim of "he went for my gun" the officer obviously had control of his firearm for the last 8 shots.

I seriously doubt the officer missed center mass the first 8 shots. The man was unarmed. Even if the officer's canned claim of "he went for my gun" the officer obviously had control of his firearm for the last 8 shots.

You assume a lot. You assume that it is a fact that he was shot that many times. I assert that he might have been shot 9 times, or 5 times, or 13 times. Nobody knows for sure. The guy in the youtube video might be right or he might be wrong. I can wait for the official report to find out. I kinda like facts. I guess I am funny that way.

You also assume that all police officers are good with their weapons. That isn't necessarily true. I was a marksmanship trainer for about 5 years. Some of our folks were law enforcement. They weren't any better than our average soldier as far as accuracy goes.

As for how many rounds it might take down a person, there is no set count. To answer this question you have to take into account the clothing they are wearing (jacket, thick cloth, leather, cotton), the bullet that is used, the speed the bullet is traveling, length of the barrel (will affect speed, longer faster, shorter slower), the point of impact on the person, if the person even realizes they have been shot, the efficiency of the shooter, the caliber of the bullet, the structure of the bullet (soft tipped hollow point, regular hollow point, ball ammo, copper jacketed, full lead, wad cutter). This is just the bullet side of the equation. Then one has to start taking into account all the physical variables of the person shot. So, there is not magic answer to your question. It takes what it takes.

One problem with some police is that they usually rely on one person to set the standard for the weapons that are used and the ammo for those weapons. Sometimes the person that sets the standards doesn't know much about ballistics. In the early 90's the tacticool round was supposed to be a 9mm 147 grain Hydrashok. That round sucks unless a person is counting on penetration, such as through windshields, car doors or leather jackets. More penetration means the round is heavier and usually travels slower. That means less temporary wound cavity. Less temporary wound cavity is great for causing stopping damage.

Then there are the variables of torso density, size, did the round strike bone or not, did it deflect. What is the person's mental state. I know folks that have been shot and didn't even notice it until it was pointed out to them.

All summed up I think you assume too much. I think you need more facts. I am not defending the police, just pointing out that people go off half cocked and make wrong assumptions. The Denver Police Dept. is a good example of why I tend to judge police by what I know about them personally. All the uniform/badge tells me is that they are authorized to wear a uniform/badge. It doesn't mean they are good or bad, it just means they are in a uniform.

Back to rioting. There is a pattern I have noticed about rioting. It is usually a shooting that starts it and it is usually a shooting that ends it. There isn't any reason or rationale for rioting. Only scum bags riot.
 
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