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House passes $694 million border bill

"The draw is the welfare state and the mistaken belief that this remains a land of opportunity. Do you want open borders? If so then completely eliminate the welfare state."

Imagine that. In the very same sentence I mentioned the two draws. Welfare and opportunity.

I want the same thing you do. I want an immigration policy that benefits the citizens of the US. We need to essentially stop all immigration until we decide what we really want. This is my country. It is not their country.

our ancestors were all immigrants, too, and had to deal with the same thing from the residents at the time. i just don't buy into the argument that the current immigrants are different than our own ancestors.

i'm not advocating for open borders, but i don't think anyone would argue that the status quo system is either ideal or sustainable. i think we can improve it.
 
Militarizing the border is part of the long term solution.

However, the current crisis is not due to an unsecured border. The people we have now aren't trying to sneak in, they're presenting themselves to border security. Because of the 2008 law, we're required to process OTM children to determine if they're eligible for refugee status. We even give them a lawyer.

Where are the UN refuges camps in Central America ?

These aren't refuges. When the Obama administration got caught treating the 2008 law as a breathing document, changing the intent of the law when at the bottom of the law it states that a minor has any family relatives residing in the USA, under the law they aren't Unaccompanied Alien Children (UAC) and the intent of the law is an anti sex trafficking law, the Obama administration is now calling the illegal aliens refuges.

There is no age limits for refuge status.

Obama has an agenda, to change the racial makeup of America because white Europeans are evil imperialist who are responsable for every thing that's wrong in the world. At least that's what Obama says.

Obama is aiding, abetting and harbouring illegal aliens. That's a felony under federal statue.
 
One, I am not an independent, I am a Reform Party Member. There is a big difference.

There were bribes, Landrieu changed for vote for the Louisiana Purchase and Ben nelson for the Nebraska corn husker kickback. Numerous Senators and Representative were threaten by DNCC that they would either with hold campaign funds if they didn't vote the party line and these are just a couple.

The "kickback" was not a "bribe" and I'm pretty sure they were removed before the final vote. And parties being loyal to those who are loyal to them is SOP, and would occur in a Reform Party if it were ever to get (and hope to keep) some measure of power.

I will stand by the fact a bill that originates in the house should be debated and voted on in the senate. A bill that originates in the senate should be debated and voted on in the house. Only those very partisan would see nothing wrong with tabling. Boehner has done basically the same thing in the House on a couple of senate bills, he applies what is known a Hastert rule. It is just a despicable. But Boehner has done perhaps 10-15 times, not over 200. Each chamber number should be zero.

I can think of several reasons why tabling is good. Without it, one half of Congress could immobilize the other by passing countless nonsensical bills just to waste the other half's time.

I don't expect the legislative process to be based on some odd sense of fair play. Politicians are elected to get things done; not play nice.

But I'm still not seeing an explanation for why ACA is so be because the way it was passed is in your opinion somehow "unfair" and the majority doesn't support it even though it went through both houses of Congress whose members are subject to elections, but you think this bill which was passed through unfair methods, aand is unsupported by the majority deserves to be considered.
 
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I can think of several reasons why tabling is good. Without it, one half of Congress could immobilize the other by passing countless nonsensical bills just to waste the other half's time.

I can think of a better one. Partisan bills should never become law. If a proposed law doesn't make sense to the majority of both parties, it is probably partisan and doesn't make sense for America.
 
"I want an immigration policy that benefits the citizens of the US. We need to essentially stop all immigration until we decide what we really want. This is my country. It is not their country."
our ancestors were all immigrants, too, and had to deal with the same thing from the residents at the time. i just don't buy into the argument that the current immigrants are different than our own ancestors.

i'm not advocating for open borders, but i don't think anyone would argue that the status quo system is either ideal or sustainable. i think we can improve it.
Do you have any idea what the current system is?

What is ideal? Do you intend to change the electorate? How many millions of people should we allow to emigrate here each year? Why do you believe we should allow anyone to come here?
 
Someone post a list of politicians whose next door neighbors are illegal immigrants.
 
The "kickback" was not a "bribe" and I'm pretty sure they were removed before the final vote. And parties being loyal to those who are loyal to them is SOP, and would occur in a Reform Party if it were ever to get (and hope to keep) some measure of power.

I'm not really interested in the conversation you are having with Perotista, but I felt impelled to comment on the above.

First of all, being nitpicky about whether the kickback was a bribe or not is really kind of a dumb thing to do, in my opinion. Heck, I'd be more inclined to call Nelson's actions extortion...but that's just me.

Second, in Nelson's case, I'm thinking he was being more loyal to himself than to anyone else...especially when you consider how he ended up after he left Congress.

Thirdly, sangha, in Nelson's case you are partly right about the kickbacks being removed before the final vote.

He voted for the law after securing increased Medicaid funding for his home state and the right of states to refuse abortion coverage in the state insurance exchanges.

The so-called Medicaid “kickback” was initially included in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act but later removed in the final “reconciliation” version of the bill.

'Cornhusker kickback' senator meets with Obama to talk Obamacare | The Daily Caller

In his case, part of the kickback/bribe/extortion deal made it into the final law...part of it didn't. And he ultimately set himself up pretty well after it was all said and done.


btw, sangha...please spare me your usual tendency to be nitpicky. The abortion thing was part of his deal, even though it wasn't an actual money "kickback".
 
It's amazing just how much political hay can be made by passing bills that have zero chance of ever becoming law. Now, let's get busy and overturn Obamacare once again while suing the president for delaying the implementation of parts of it. That's the ticket.

An all too common practice.
 
I'm not really interested in the conversation you are having with Perotista, but I felt impelled to comment on the above.

First of all, being nitpicky about whether the kickback was a bribe or not is really kind of a dumb thing to do, in my opinion. Heck, I'd be more inclined to call Nelson's actions extortion...but that's just me.

Second, in Nelson's case, I'm thinking he was being more loyal to himself than to anyone else...especially when you consider how he ended up after he left Congress.

Thirdly, sangha, in Nelson's case you are partly right about the kickbacks being removed before the final vote.



In his case, part of the kickback/bribe/extortion deal made it into the final law...part of it didn't. And he ultimately set himself up pretty well after it was all said and done.


btw, sangha...please spare me your usual tendency to be nitpicky. The abortion thing was part of his deal, even though it wasn't an actual money "kickback".

Since he wasn't receiving a penny of the money it was neither a kickback nor a bribe. He was loyal to his constituents and fighting for their interests which is what a politician is supposed to do.
 
Since he wasn't receiving a penny of the money it was neither a kickback nor a bribe. He was loyal to his constituents and fighting for their interests which is what a politician is supposed to do.

Why am I not surprised that you just cannot resist being nitpicky?

The money was part of the deal...until he gave that part of it up in order to get the other part that he wanted...the abortion thing. I suspect THAT's what got him his cushy job after he left the Senate. Shows where his loyalty actually was, doesn't it?
 
You know why that is?

Because the senate will reject it because crazy greedy obamafool wants 2.1 billion and the psychos in the Senate will settle for nothing less tan what their master and dear leader wants, and even if the bill made it past the Senate Obama would never sign it.

The Republicans don't want to pass it either. The only reason the House passed it is so they can rant about how it's all Obama and the Democrats' fault that we haven't put an end to illegal immigration. The party faithful lap it up like sheep at a salt lick.
 
"I want an immigration policy that benefits the citizens of the US. We need to essentially stop all immigration until we decide what we really want. This is my country. It is not their country."

Do you have any idea what the current system is?

What is ideal? Do you intend to change the electorate? How many millions of people should we allow to emigrate here each year? Why do you believe we should allow anyone to come here?

I'd support a solution more like Ellis Island than the current system.

Why should we let anyone in? Because that's how our country works, and it's part of what makes it a great country.

Are you pure blooded native American?
 
And I'm not surprised that your post was dishonest and hackish

LOL!!

Yeah...right.

I call you nitpicky...and back it up with facts.

You call me dishonest and hackish...and back it up with...nothing.
 
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I'd support a solution more like Ellis Island than the current system.
What does that mean to you? We controlled immigration then. Today illegals invade and we wring our hands instead lof wringing their necks.

Why should we let anyone in? Because that's how our country works, and it's part of what makes it a great country.
You should have just said you have no idea and left it at that.

Are you pure blooded native American?
Of course. So is every other American citizen born here of American parents. Are you confused or something?
 
From where did your ancestry come?
When did they come to the USA?
Were they as hated as Italians and Irish ?
What does that mean to you? We controlled immigration then. Today illegals invade and we wring our hands instead lof wringing their necks.


You should have just said you have no idea and left it at that.


Of course. So is every other American citizen born here of American parents. Are you confused or something?
 
What does that mean to you? We controlled immigration then. Today illegals invade and we wring our hands instead lof wringing their necks.

i'm not interested in wringing necks. i'm interested in fixing our immigration system.


You should have just said you have no idea and left it at that.

i do have ideas, and i have presented some of them.


Of course. So is every other American citizen born here of American parents. Are you confused or something?

which tribe?
 
The Naturalization Act of 1870 changed the ways, and laws of immigration to this country

The USA starting putting limitations on the numbers allowed in

What the new immigrants had to have

And they also sent back many that were sick, or they feared were carrying diseases

Do some of the visa and immigration laws need tweaking? yeah

But you are trying to compare people who came here legally, and followed the rules.....to others who dont give a **** about the rules, they just want in

They want the "amnesty" that the president so eloquently spoke of

Sorry....but it is not happening

Not now.....not 10 years from now
 
From where did your ancestry come?
When did they come to the USA?
Were they as hated as Italians and Irish ?
Like nearly everyone my ancestors came from all over. I have a background that includes England, Scotland, the Netherlands, Norway, France, Poland, Germany, and Northwestern Indians (one tribe specifically).

Beats me. Of what relevance is this? I am native American. My parents were born here. I was born here.

This is my country. It is not their country. You are confused. Why?
 
i'm not interested in wringing necks. i'm interested in fixing our immigration system.
i do have ideas, and i have presented some of them.
which tribe?
Native American. The American tribe. My parents were American citizens. I was born here. I am a native American. How about you?
 
Native American. The American tribe. My parents were American citizens. I was born here. I am a native American. How about you?

Native American noun

: a member of any of the first groups of people living in North America or South America; especially : a member of one of these groups from the U.S.

Native american - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Try again. You are a citizen, not a Native American.

cit·i·zen noun \ˈsi-tə-zən also -sən\

: a person who legally belongs to a country and has the rights and protection of that country

: a person who lives in a particular place

Citizen - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
 
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/01/politics/house-border-bill/index.html

The message is contradictory - The President wants Congress to work and to pass a border bill. The bill that was passed on Friday however was not to his liking and he vows to veto it yet, by all indications it will never make it to his desk because the Senate was not available to receive the bill before it's five-week summer recess. The way government is supposed to work is the House bill be taken up by the Senate, changes are made and sent back to the House... that is done until a bill is compromised on and is sent to the President for signature into law. How can this process take place when one side is demonized, the other never takes up the bill and the President vows to veto it before it even gets to the Senate?

During my lifetime, I've known of presidents since the Nixon era threaten to veto bills they didn't agree with long before the legislation reached their desk. Reagan and Clinton both did it often. Nothing new here.
 
From where did your ancestry come?
When did they come to the USA?
Were they as hated as Italians and Irish ?

Why does that even matter? If it really matters to you I was born in the US but I am Sicilian/Swede.... I'm 100% US citizen tho, and see and view myself as one.... Do you seriously believe for a nanosecond that I - as a US citizen even care about my "heritage" when it comes to my status as a US citizen? My great grandmother didn't even speak English.....
 
During my lifetime, I've known of presidents since the Nixon era threaten to veto bills they didn't agree with long before the legislation reached their desk. Reagan and Clinton both did it often. Nothing new here.


It wasn't only Nixon - presidents have been doing this for 250 years.
 
Native American. The American tribe. My parents were American citizens. I was born here. I am a native American. How about you?

so you are also a son of immigrants.

as for me, my family got here hundreds of years ago. they arrived as immigrants.
 
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