IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IRS

ecofarm · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

cpwill said:
To declare someone a racist is indeed an attempt to silence them - it is saying that they do not belong in the public debate, to shame them and hound them and drive them from discourse.

That they have failed is not an alibi.

People have a right to call anyone a racist. Don't cry victim too much.

ecofarm · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

polgara said:
Glad to, but you did ask! :shrug:

But you didn't give me any real examples. You just blamed all political opposition on PC (an object), as if there are no legitimate political opinions besides yours, and you act like others having different opinions is an infringement on your rights.

cpwill · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

ecofarm said:
People have a right to call anyone a racist

Sure. Just as people have a right to own a firearm. Misusing either is abusive and wrong.

eohrnberger · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

cpwill said:
I would change that to "the structure of governance generally". Polling officials who play fast and loose to give their team an edge up are just as criminal, and generally any public official or employee who uses the power granted to them by the people to seek to twist or bend the will of the people should be treated as what they are - people who threaten the very underpinning of our political system. R or D, throw the absolute book at them.

Not anything to disagree with here. Especially throwing the book at those that corrupt the system itself.

ecofarm · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

cpwill said:
Sure. Just as people have a right to own a firearm. Misusing either is abusive and wrong.

What happened to having the right to speak ones opinion? You were SO concerned about that a minute ago, and now you claim others do not have that right. Are you sure you understand what free speech means?

Why do you cry victim when others exercise their right to free speech?

eohrnberger · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

Grant said:
The USA seems to be the only democracy where the citizens are fearful, and rightfully so, of their tax collectors. A strike might be in order.

I wonder as to the outcome of a strike of this nature. Has the government exceeded any restraint at all? Or would it crush such a strike to ensure it's supremacy over it's electorate? Hmm. Interesting thought experiments stem from the notion.

Montecresto · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

eohrnberger said:
I wonder as to the outcome of a strike of this nature. Has the government exceeded any restraint at all? Or would it crush such a strike to ensure it's supremacy over it's electorate? Hmm. Interesting thought experiments stem from the notion.

Lethal force has been used to crush strikes in America in the past, so yeah it could and would.

cpwill · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

ecofarm said:
What happened to having the right to speak ones opinion?

No one is suggesting anything has happened to it. You are desperate to create a strawman by refusing to recognize the difference between what we have the right to do, and what we should do.

Folks are free to try to shut others out of the public debate by screaming that they are racists, haters, bigots, child-rapists, etc. They simply are wrong (both technically and morally) to do so when it is inaccurate, and their goal is to avoid debate.

eohrnberger · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

ecofarm said:
Others exercising their free speech does not make you a victim.

True, or at least shouldn't. But yet, you speak your mind, and it's not aligned with the determiners of Political Correctness, and you are chastised, excoriated, or even worse. So who exactly is suppressing who's free speech exactly?

ecofarm said:
What happened to having the right to speak ones opinion? You were SO concerned about that a minute ago, and now you claim others do not have that right. Are you sure you understand what free speech means?

Why do you cry victim when others exercise their right to free speech?

Exactly why political correctness suppresses free speech, for fear of retribution. I'm curious why do you don't see that.

Montecresto · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

cpwill said:
No one is suggesting anything has happened to it. You are desperate to create a strawman by refusing to recognize the difference between what we have the right to do, and what we should do.

Folks are free to try to shut others out of the public debate by screaming that they are racists, haters, bigots, child-rapists, etc. They simply are wrong (both technically and morally) to do so when it is inaccurate, and their goal is to avoid debate.

Anti-American, UN-patriotic, Muslim lovers........................

ecofarm · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

cpwill said:
No one is suggesting anything has happened to it. You are desperate to create a strawman by refusing to recognize the difference between what we have the right to do, and what we should do.

So, some people should not express their opinion because you don't like it? That's a bit fascist, isn't it?

Folks are free to try to shut others out of the public debate by screaming that they are racists, haters, bigots, child-rapists, etc. They simply are wrong (both technically and morally) to do so when it is inaccurate, and their goal is to avoid debate.

If someone thinks you're racist, that's their right. Deal with it and stop crying victim just because others exercise free speech.

ecofarm · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

eohrnberger said:
True, or at least shouldn't. But yet, you speak your mind, and it's not aligned with the determiners of Political Correctness, and you are chastised, excoriated, or even worse. So who exactly is suppressing who's free speech exactly?

If you cannot deal with accusation, that's your problem. People have the right to believe someone is a racist. Too bad.

Exactly why political correctness suppresses free speech, for fear of retribution. I'm curious why do you don't see that.

Oh, you're SO SCARED! You poor victim. How terrible of those people to speak their mind. What gives them the right?!

Grant · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

ecofarm said:
Wow, you even have a link-dump to proclaim your victim status. You are REALLY committed to claiming victim. Do people generally show you pity?

You interpreted that list as seeking 'victim status'? You really should have followed the posters advice about your head and sand.

cpwill · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

ecofarm said:
So, some people should not express their opinion because you don't like it?

No. Some people should stop verbally abusing others in an attempt to bully them into silence and submission.

Others such as yourself should stop defending them by engaging in idiotic strawmen arguments.

ecofarm · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

Grant said:
You interpreted that list as seeking 'victim status'? You really should have followed the posters advice about your head and sand.

Another poor victim!!

People, we've got to help these poor men. They can't deal with accusations. They're powerless. They're oppressed by others exercising their right to free speech. There's only one thing we can do. No free speech for their political opposition!!

Won't you help these victims?? Tell their opposition to shut up!

Grant · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

eohrnberger said:
I wonder as to the outcome of a strike of this nature. Has the government exceeded any restraint at all? Or would it crush such a strike to ensure it's supremacy over it's electorate? Hmm. Interesting thought experiments stem from the notion.

I was curious about that also, and whether it would gain any traction. We can see what happened to that rancher in Nevada but would they do something similar if a large percentage of the population was involved?

X Factor · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

ecofarm said:
What happened to having the right to speak ones opinion? You were SO concerned about that a minute ago, and now you claim others do not have that right. Are you sure you understand what free speech means?

Why do you cry victim when others exercise their right to free speech?

As I'm often told, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from the consequences of speech and so long as it's not the government imposing those consequences it's all good. Ask the Duck Dynasty or Mozilla dudes.

Like I say, this is so not any kind of a big deal to me, however in a scandal about applying different standards to conservative groups and emails that supposedly (and conveniently) went poof, she certainly fueled the flame with her comments.

cpwill · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

ecofarm said:
Another poor victim!!

People, we've got to help these poor men. They can't deal with accusations. They're powerless. They're oppressed by others exercising their right to free speech. There's only one thing we can do. No free speech for their political opposition!!

Won't you help these victims?? Tell their opposition to shut up!

no - that is precisely what we are saying is the wrong thing to do.

ecofarm · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

X Factor said:
As I'm often told, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from the consequences of speech and so, so long as it's not the government imposing those consequences it's all good. Ask the Duck Dynasty or Mozilla dudes.

Wait... you're NOT a victim of others exercising free speech? But what if they say something you don't like?? Well, then you're a victim, right?

Get with the pity party! Play that victim card!

Gringo allstar · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

ecofarm said:
If you cannot deal with accusation, that's your problem. People have the right to believe someone is a racist. Too bad.

Oh, you're SO SCARED! You poor victim. How terrible of those people to speak their mind. What gives them the right?!

Why does this sound familiar?????

Grant · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

ecofarm said:
Another poor victim!!

People, we've got to help these poor men. They can't deal with accusations. They're powerless. They're oppressed by others exercising their right to free speech. There's only one thing we can do. No free speech for their political opposition!!

Won't you help these victims?? Tell their opposition to shut up!

Nobody feels that free speech is threatened except yourself. What people are pointing to, in a free speech sort of way, are the many idiot claims and defamations that have little substance in reality. It's clearly directed at the lesser educated out there..

eohrnberger · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

ecofarm said:
Others exercising their free speech does not make you a victim.

X Factor said:
As I'm often told, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from the consequences of speech and so long as it's not the government imposing those consequences it's all good. Ask the Duck Dynasty or Mozilla dudes.

Like I say, this is so not any kind of a big deal to me, however in a scandal about applying different standards to conservative groups and emails that supposedly (and conveniently) went poof, she certainly fueled the flame with her comments.

X, I agree with your 'let the public sentiment determine the consequence', but really, have this been what we've been suffering under for the last few years from the public figures? I hardly think so.

Buck Ewer · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

“So we don’t need to worry about alien terrorists. It’s our own crazies that will take us down.”

This is an accurate statement.

ecofarm · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

cpwill said:
no - that is precisely what we are saying is the wrong thing to do.

Then accept they've the right to think someone is a racist. And if you cannot deal with the accusation, then it's your problem.

jmotivator · Jul 30, 2014

Re: IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IR

Unitedwestand13 said:
so a congressman can shout "You Lie" at a president during a special address to congress? that is an dangerous precedent you are supporting, especially if the same thing happens to future presidents.

"Dangerous Precedent"? What is in danger, people's feelings?

IRS Retired Lerner calls conservatives "a**holes" and "crazies" in emails from IRS

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