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U.S. economy bounces back sharply

donsutherland1

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Means nothing...wait for the final revision (then few will pay attention).

They dropped Q1 from +0.1% initially all the way down to -2.1% in th final revision...clearly (IMO) they are either incompetent and/or being influenced.
 
I've never understood why the government publishes data that they are not sure about. It is as though they are in a hurry to mess things up. Usually, they take their time messing things up.
 
Means nothing...wait for the final revision (then few will pay attention).

They dropped Q1 from +0.1% initially all the way down to -2.1% in th final revision...clearly (IMO) they are either incompetent and/or being influenced.

Yep, expect glowingly good reports through the election cycle.
 
Means nothing...wait for the final revision (then few will pay attention).

They dropped Q1 from +0.1% initially all the way down to -2.1% in th final revision...clearly (IMO) they are either incompetent and/or being influenced.

The revision process is transparent so you can actually see how everything is calculated if you want.

When BEA calculates the advance estimate, the Bureau doesn’t yet have complete source data, with the largest gaps in data related to the third month of the quarter. In particular, the advance estimate is lacking complete source data on inventories, trade, and consumer spending on services. Therefore, BEA must make assumptions for these missing pieces based in part on past trends. As part of this process, we publish a detailed technical note that lays out the assumptions made for a particular estimate. BEA also publishes detailed materials on the standardized procedures and methods used in the various vintages of the GDP estimates.

As new and more complete data become available, that information is incorporated into the second and third GDP estimates. About 45 percent of the advance estimate is based on initial or early estimates from various monthly and quarterly surveys that are subject to revision for various reasons, including late respondents that are eventually incorporated into the survey results. Another roughly 14 percent of the advance estimate is based on historical trends.

By the second GDP estimate, we have new data for the third month and revised data for earlier months. By the third estimate, a lot more data is available so that only 17 percent of the GDP estimate is based on information from the first set of monthly and quarterly surveys.

Revising Economic Indicators: Here
 
CNN reported:

New data released Wednesday show the U.S. economy bounced back in the spring, growing at a 4% annual pace in the second quarter. That was even better than the forecast of 3% growth, according to a consensus of economists surveyed by CNNMoney.

After terrible start to the year, the U.S. economy bounces back - Jul. 30, 2014

The full GDP report can be found at: http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/2014/pdf/gdp2q14_adv.pdf

In other words the economy is extremely bumpy and at 2% growth less than impressive. But we are better than Greece.
 
In other words the economy is extremely bumpy and at 2% growth less than impressive. But we are better than Greece.

2% growth wouldn't be bad considering that the historic average since the 70's has been 3%.
 
In other words the economy is extremely bumpy and at 2% growth less than impressive. But we are better than Greece.

I'll take growth. Any type. +0.1% ain't great, but it isn't moving backwards.
 
2% growth wouldn't be bad considering that the historic average since the 70's has been 3%.

It would, if we weren't coming out of a severe bump and we were Old Europeans. As it is? Well, it is better than shrinking again.
 
The revision process is transparent so you can actually see how everything is calculated if you want.

1) No it is not fully transparent, IMO.

The final numbers they use for the calculations are transparent.

But - like the employment numbers - the exact numbers and exact calculation procedures they use to come up with those numbers at every level are often not available to the public. They are secret.
I mean think...if these numbers were available to the public, then the public could figure them out. Yet, the 'experts' - even those from major banks with gigantic resources - are always guessing. Even after the numbers are released, it is impossible for people to find the exact calculation process for every number...which is essential to confirm the validity of each and every number and the weight that each and very number carries.
The exact tabulations of the GDP - down to the absolute smallest detail - are NOT transparent. Yet, they should be.


2)They make assumptions...hardly scientific.

'When BEA calculates the advance estimate, we don’t yet have complete source data, with the largest gaps in data for the third month of the quarter. In particular, the advance estimate lacks complete source data on inventories, trade, and consumer spending on services. Therefore, we must make assumptions for these missing pieces based in part on past trends. As part of this process, we publish a detailed technical note that lays out the assumptions we made for a particular estimate. We also publish detailed materials on the standardized procedures and methods used in the various vintages of the GDP estimates.'

http://blog.bea.gov/tag/gdp-revisions/

Don't make assumptions you ding dongs...just provide what you know and say you don't know the rest.
But no, they have to play the stats god and guess anyway.


3) what is the point of releasing a number that you know is not accurate because all of the required data inputs are not available?

Everyone with an unbiased brain in their head knew the BEA would have to revise the Q1 number WAY down fom it's first report of +0.1%.
Yet these ding dongs at the BEA post them as 'the' numbers (pending revision).

Why not just not post the number until the final revision?

Because of politics.


IMO, the BEA is (like the BLS) little more then a bunch of bureaucrats who do what they are told from above.

And if 'above' tells them to legally make the numbers seem good...they do just that.

They don't flat out lie, but they use 'creative' math and tabulation techniques to fudge the numbers in the direction their bosses request.



You believe otherwise...I really don't much care...your bias is already well documented (no offense).
Whereas my bias is for facts...no matter what they are.


We are done here, for now.

Good day.
 
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US GDP Grows 4% in Q2, Beating Expectations

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/31/business/economy/us-economy-grew-4-in-second-quarter.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=LedeSum&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

WSJ: U.S. Second-Quarter GDP Expands at 4.0% Rate - WSJ


GDP growth exceeded expectations for Q2.

• Personal consumption is up
• Private inventory is up
• Business spending is up
• This month's rebound supports the idea that Q1 was down because of one-time factors (like bad weather)
• Imports increased (this is actually a good sign)

We should also note that:
• Consumer confidence is at its highest point since 2007
• The number of people who believe that "jobs are plentiful" is at its highest point since 2008, and confidence in availability of employment is rising
• Unemployment is getting back to normal levels

There are obviously still some challenges; the biggest is probably stagnant wages, including some erosion in low-income wages. However, as employment continues to improve, wages may also pick back up.
 
Why not just not post the number until the final revision?

Because of politics.

And of course that's conspiratorial nonsense. BEA reports numbers regardless of what kind of impact they have politically. The obvious answer is the need to balance timeliness with accuracy. My "bias" is reasonableness, which of course would seem biased to someone who views opponents of conspiracy theories as "nonbelievers".
 
Re: US GDP Grows 4% in Q2, Beating Expectations

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/31/business/economy/us-economy-grew-4-in-second-quarter.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=LedeSum&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

WSJ: U.S. Second-Quarter GDP Expands at 4.0% Rate - WSJ


GDP growth exceeded expectations for Q2.

• Personal consumption is up
• Private inventory is up
• Business spending is up
• This month's rebound supports the idea that Q1 was down because of one-time factors (like bad weather)
• Imports increased (this is actually a good sign)

We should also note that:
• Consumer confidence is at its highest point since 2007
• The number of people who believe that "jobs are plentiful" is at its highest point since 2008, and confidence in availability of employment is rising
• Unemployment is getting back to normal levels

There are obviously still some challenges; the biggest is probably stagnant wages, including some erosion in low-income wages. However, as employment continues to improve, wages may also pick back up.

Capitalism works. I may not work perfectly, but it works better than socialism.
 
Re: US GDP Grows 4% in Q2, Beating Expectations

Great job everybody.
 
Re: US GDP Grows 4% in Q2, Beating Expectations

Moderator's Warning:
Threads merged.
 
Re: US GDP Grows 4% in Q2, Beating Expectations

Capitalism works. I may not work perfectly, but it works better than socialism.

Except for that fact that America - like all the rest of the first-world democracies - has a very healthy dose of socialism at work in the economy. If you want to see real capitalism at work, go to China - or go to most third-world nations where the golden rule is the only rule that really matters.

This isn't to say that pure socialism is good - it's not. What is best, as evinced by ALL the first-world democracies on the planet, is an economy that is balanced between capitalism and socialism, neither too much nor too little of either one.
 
Re: US GDP Grows 4% in Q2, Beating Expectations

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/31/business/economy/us-economy-grew-4-in-second-quarter.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=LedeSum&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

WSJ: U.S. Second-Quarter GDP Expands at 4.0% Rate - WSJ


GDP growth exceeded expectations for Q2.

• Personal consumption is up
• Private inventory is up
• Business spending is up
• This month's rebound supports the idea that Q1 was down because of one-time factors (like bad weather)
• Imports increased (this is actually a good sign)

We should also note that:
• Consumer confidence is at its highest point since 2007
• The number of people who believe that "jobs are plentiful" is at its highest point since 2008, and confidence in availability of employment is rising
• Unemployment is getting back to normal levels

There are obviously still some challenges; the biggest is probably stagnant wages, including some erosion in low-income wages. However, as employment continues to improve, wages may also pick back up.


What?

Last month 523K full jobs were eliminated - while 799K part time jobs were created...for a probable net loss in hours worked.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t09.htm

On what planet is less hours worked and over 1/2 a million jobs lost an improvement?
 
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Re: US GDP Grows 4% in Q2, Beating Expectations

What?

Last month 523K jobs were eliminated - while 799K jobs were created...for a probable net loss in hours worked.

Table A-9. Selected employment indicators

On what planet is less hours worked and over 1/2 a million jobs lost an improvement?

Um, according to you, 523K jobs eliminated, while 799 were created...so that is an ADDITION of 276K jobs. How, exactly, does that result in a "probable net loss in hours worked"?

That, and your reference proves your point not at all.
 
Re: US GDP Grows 4% in Q2, Beating Expectations

Um, according to you, 523K jobs eliminated, while 799 were created...so that is an ADDITION of 276K jobs. How, exactly, does that result in a "probable net loss in hours worked"?

That, and your reference proves your point not at all.

Sorry, I forgot to put in 'full time' (523K) and 'part time' (799K)...I changed them on the quoted post.

Thanks for the heads up.
 
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