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US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’ [W:326]

Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

The presidents team had so successfully demonized the dissenting voice as UN-American/UN-patriotic it stifled meaningful dissent, politicians thinking of their political careers and all. Tampering with the evidence as was latter pointed out in the leaked Downing Street Memo (fixing the intelligence around the policy) and working the country into a frenzy with the fear mongering of mushroom clouds over a US city!!

Fair enough. But i think all politicians use the media to manipulate public opinion. It is extremely effective because people allow themselves to be so easily controlled.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Fair enough. But i think all politicians use the media to manipulate public opinion. It is extremely effective because people allow themselves to be so easily controlled.

I won't disagree with that. But this particular time was hugely effective. I've stated before that it was rampant, reaching the water cooler conversations at the work place, I personally reaped the wrath as an ardent critic of Bush's ambition in Iraq. Earning me the title of Taliban John, anti-American, Muslim lover, UN-patriotic, etc. it was exceedingly difficult in those days to oppose the Bush teams rhetoric. Many people, including politicians have expressed similar sentiments subsequently.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

I won't disagree with that. But this particular time was hugely effective. I've stated before that it was rampant, reaching the water cooler conversations at the work place, I personally reaped the wrath as an ardent critic of Bush's ambition in Iraq. Earning me the title of Taliban John, anti-American, Muslim lover, UN-patriotic, etc. it was exceedingly difficult in those days to oppose the Bush teams rhetoric. Many people, including politicians have expressed similar sentiments subsequently.

It isn't uncommon to be ridiculed for having a minority opinion. Good for you that you stood for your beliefs rather than bending to pressure. I am aware that US activities in the ME have little to do with spreading democracy and ending terrorism. That opinion hasn't exactly earned me a flag waving welcome from my fellow compatriots. My point in this thread is that more politicians are involved in these actions than only GW. Many of those who now speak against the war were some of its biggest supporters. Funny how that works. I am looking to find a politician who cares about this country more than his or her own personal interests, and I have yet to find a single one.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

It isn't uncommon to be ridiculed for having a minority opinion. Good for you that you stood for your beliefs rather than bending to pressure. I am aware that US activities in the ME have little to do with spreading democracy and ending terrorism. That opinion hasn't exactly earned me a flag waving welcome from my fellow compatriots. My point in this thread is that more politicians are involved in these actions than only GW. Many of those who now speak against the war were some of its biggest supporters. Funny how that works. I am looking to find a politician who cares about this country more than his or her own personal interests, and I have yet to find a single one.

I agree again. The support for long term US policy in the ME is on both sides. The decades of support of militant Islamic groups has left the region in flames. A united and cooperative people's in the region would be very good for the citizens of the region and not so good at all for "US Interests". Exploiting tensions, encouraging infighting etc.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

True. And while there may be situations which legitimately call for military intervention, intervening in through this imperial methodology is sure to backfire.




I wonder how many neocons take a look at the god-awful mess in Iraq and think: Maybe, just maybe, we'd be a whole lot better off right now if we had stayed far away from that place.

Any ideas on that?
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

I wonder how many neocons take a look at the god-awful mess in Iraq and think: Maybe, just maybe, we'd be a whole lot better off right now if we had stayed far away from that place.

Any ideas on that?

None. They all say this quagmire is due to Obama and that whatever Bush had done was perfect and warranted.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

I wonder how many neocons take a look at the god-awful mess in Iraq and think: Maybe, just maybe, we'd be a whole lot better off right now if we had stayed far away from that place.

Any ideas on that?

Undoubtedly many, privately!!
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

None. They all say this quagmire is due to Obama and that whatever Bush had done was perfect and warranted.

A true partisan always has his party above country. Politicians aware of this exploit it, knowing they'll have plenty of cover when engaged in wrong doing.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

None.
They all say this quagmire is due to Obama and that whatever Bush had done was perfect and warranted.








Well they're certainly entitled to their opinions, but my opinion is that they're full of something, and it doesn't smell like peanut butter.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

I'm only pointing out the facts.

Not only did Bin laden issue a fatwa, but Clinton also issued his own, of sorts.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-105publ338/html/PLAW-105publ338.htm

And Clinton handed that warning and Intel over to bush who ignored it... Then didn't have a meeting about it for seven months, went on a month long vacation, and we get hit.

Facts are, the buck stops anywhere but on a republican's desk.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

And Clinton handed that warning and Intel over to bush who ignored it... Then didn't have a meeting about it for seven months, went on a month long vacation, and we get hit.

Facts are, the buck stops anywhere but on a republican's desk.
I was only replying with facts, and now you stoop to partisanship with no evidence?

Ignored it?

Do you have proof?

No, you don't. Only what the media pundits say.

That's a topic for another thread anyway.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

I wonder how many neocons take a look at the god-awful mess in Iraq and think: Maybe, just maybe, we'd be a whole lot better off right now if we had stayed far away from that place.

Any ideas on that?
Yeah, it may be better if we coward in a corner and sucked our collective thumbs but then we wouldn't be safe then either.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Yeah, it may be better if we coward in a corner and sucked our collective thumbs but then we wouldn't be safe then either.




Take a good look at the current situation in Iraq and tell us what the USA accomplished there with its huge expenditure of blood and money.

Fill us in.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Take a good look at the current situation in Iraq and tell us what the USA accomplished there with its huge expenditure of blood and money.

Fill us in.


Oh.
The current situation?
We lost everything we accomplished with blood & money.
Your turn.
When & why?
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Yeah, it may be better if we coward in a corner and sucked our collective thumbs but then we wouldn't be safe then either.

What are you talking about j, we weren't ever in any danger from Saddam Hussein, and we weren't cowering in any corners, there was NEVER any threat of a mushroom cloud over a US city. I suspect privately you accept the failure of the Iraq war..
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Oh.
The current situation?
We lost everything we accomplished with blood & money.
Your turn.
When & why?

NOTHING was accomplished.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Take a good look at the current situation in Iraq and tell us what the USA accomplished there with its huge expenditure of blood and money.

Fill us in.

I can't think of anything useful we have done with our military action since the Korean war. I was involved in one of those wars. If the world has to get along without a global police force then so be it. I'm very much against the Obama agenda except in this one area. I approve of our getting out of the war mongering business. Let's defend our homeland instead of defending everyone else's homeland.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

When the next attack happens here, and Innocent Americans die, that is squarely on Obama....

I see. So USA Intelligence had been watching ISIS homing in on Mosul and decided not to tell the Iraqis of the approaching danger, or, told the Iraqi defenders to just pack and leave because we can't decide who's side we are on. Those miles long columns of dust moving along must be really tough to spot with satellites or instutional imcompetence reigns supreme among the analysts. Still, since we are supporting the rebels in Syria and this group constitutes "rebels from Syria," then they're our lackeys and armed by us, the USA. Since we really do not stock our Intelligence agencies with dunces, then one can conclude that the operation is, "as planned," and chaos, as in Ukraine, Libya, Syria, Egypt, etc., is the specific plan. Good marketing for the War Industries of the World's largest arms marketeer who can proudly proclaim that "War is good business, and business is good." Don't ya' know?
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

NOTHING was accomplished.

How can you say, "nothing was accomplished?" Keerisst mon, huge profits have been generated for the USA Warmaking National Industries. Raytheon and GE and numerous Military Offense contractors have generated prodigious profits. I believe their direct marketing programs are promoting new wars as we speak. I mean, this is about business and you're worried about blood and money. There's no blood in the Corporate Offices on Wall Street. Sometimes on the streets below when someone's conscience reveals a glimpse of realtiy. Holy Batcrap, but even greater profits are on the horizon as renewed promotional campaigns are creating new markets in Ukraine, Egypt, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Qatar, Yemen, and numerous Central African Nations that also just happen to have huge untapped natural resources. Business be good, Bubba. Help your Country out and start a new war or wars. Act now, so those wonderful Corporate Arms Manufacturers can move their profits to an overseas tax haven. We can put Military bases there to make sure the Corporate resource extractors are protected and secure and guaranteed profits protected by USA taxpayer protections money. Yessiree Bubba, yours, mine and Grandma's tax dollars will be performing prodigiously to protect those greedmongers from reality, or even a bad dream. Ain't Corporatism just grand? NSA will make sure they know what their competitors are doing and you and I will pay for that, but we don't get no share of the booty, don't ya' know?
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

How can you say, "nothing was accomplished?" Keerisst mon, huge profits have been generated for the USA Warmaking National Industries. Raytheon and GE and numerous Military Offense contractors have generated prodigious profits. I believe their direct marketing programs are promoting new wars as we speak. I mean, this is about business and you're worried about blood and money. There's no blood in the Corporate Offices on Wall Street. Sometimes on the streets below when someone's conscience reveals a glimpse of realtiy. Holy Batcrap, but even greater profits are on the horizon as renewed promotional campaigns are creating new markets in Ukraine, Egypt, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Qatar, Yemen, and numerous Central African Nations that also just happen to have huge untapped natural resources. Business be good, Bubba. Help your Country out and start a new war or wars. Act now, so those wonderful Corporate Arms Manufacturers can move their profits to an overseas tax haven. We can put Military bases there to make sure the Corporate resource extractors are protected and secure and guaranteed profits protected by USA taxpayer protections money. Yessiree Bubba, yours, mine and Grandma's tax dollars will be performing prodigiously to protect those greedmongers from reality, or even a bad dream. Ain't Corporatism just grand? NSA will make sure they know what their competitors are doing and you and I will pay for that, but we don't get no share of the booty, don't ya' know?

I stand corrected, I should be so negative.
 
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