• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’ [W:326]

Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

They didn't see **** because they're blinded by their Political correctness and their allegiance to do nothing...

The funniest part is that they claimed they "saw it coming" so what does that make them? stupid or tolerant?

They're ****ing idiots...

Stop and think about it. The Obama administration has helped topple multiple secular ruled countries and just walked away following the downfall of the leadership leaving tribal factions and invading Islamists to fight it out for control of the country.

All of this after denigrating Bush for the thousands who lost their lives in Iraq.

In supporting the Arab Spring isn't Obama responsible loss of life as well? His acceptable loss of life is just different than Bush's.

Dead is dead.

They obviously saw it coming.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

G.W. Bush was the guy who kicked off the un-necessary Iraq war which the USA will be paying for a long time from now, with nothing to show for the lives lost and money thrown away.


Like Obama's Arab Spring.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Μολὼν λαβέ;1063572500 said:
Stop and think about it. The Obama administration has helped topple multiple secular ruled countries and just walked away following the downfall of the leadership leaving tribal factions and invading Islamists to fight it out for control of the country.

All of this after denigrating Bush for the thousands who lost their lives in Iraq.

In supporting the Arab Spring isn't Obama responsible loss of life as well? His acceptable loss of life is just different than Bush's.

Dead is dead.

They obviously saw it coming.

You are correct with that.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Like the one that you just made, eh? :roll:

Such as?..

Your arguments thus far have been bipartisan. Placing the blame of a multidimensional issue on one individual is the paragon of simplicity. It completely ignores every other variable. I have not made absolutist claims.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Oh. Okay. So it is your argument that Al Qaeda does not have the ability to launch attacks against the West. Okedoke.

I'd say it's certainly not "imminent," as has been claimed in this thread, and much of AQ's assets seem to be tied up in the ME.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Μολὼν λαβέ;1063572500 said:
Stop and think about it. The Obama administration has helped topple multiple secular ruled countries and just walked away following the downfall of the leadership leaving tribal factions and invading Islamists to fight it out for control of the country.

All of this after denigrating Bush for the thousands who lost their lives in Iraq.

In supporting the Arab Spring isn't Obama responsible loss of life as well? His acceptable loss of life is just different than Bush's.

Dead is dead.

They obviously saw it coming.

I think the Obama administration fell into the same trap the Bush administration did, where they felt if these people were able to crawl out from under the thumb of the dictators, then democracy would spring forth and all would be hunky-dory. I don't think it would have in Libya or Egypt, no matter who we threw our support behind.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Like the one that you just made, eh? :roll:

Rhiannon just said, "almost always". This is NOT an absolute statement.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

I'd say it's certainly not "imminent," as has been claimed in this thread, and much of AQ's assets seem to be tied up in the ME.

ahhhh. that's fantastic to know that it is not imminent. Here I thought that we were trying to stay abreast of multiple threat streams emanating from multiple groups all of whom have learned the hard way over the past decade or so how to have good COMSEC. Have you conveyed your special knowledge to the CIA? they might be interested in hiring someone of your impressive abilities.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

ahhhh. that's fantastic to know that it is not imminent. Have you conveyed your special knowledge to the CIA? they might be interested in hiring someone of your impressive abilities.

Did I say I "knew"? This guy in post 20 seems to.

Another attack is imminent. And we will again, fail to respond in any meaningful way. This, I fear, will be a repeat of WW1 and WW2. America and it's allies will fail to stop an imminent large scale world conflict. In the end, more Americans will die then if we had just taken care of this problem when we had the chance while we had forces in Iraq.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Did I say I "knew"? This guy in post 20 seems to.

:shrug: if he does know, then he probably shouldn't be talking about it on a public forum.

Suffice to say, we are looking at multiple groups with the intent, the capability and - due to intramural competition - the need to launch big, flashy, cool attacks against Western interests. Mind you, for AQSL that's going to probably consist at least of marching successfully back into Afghanistan after the the administration chooses to lose a war engages in a troop realignment next year. MMO and AAZ are going to take a selfie outside of ISAF HQ, and all hell is gonna start to break loose.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Who helped the Muslims in Afghanistan kick the Soviet Union out of there?

Any ideas?

Ah. It is your belief that all Muslims are the same, and that therefore support to mostly tribal / warlord-esque forces in the 1980's therefore translates into support of two AQ variants in the 2010's?
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

I disagreed with Nick that middle eastern militant Islamic groups are on the same chapter or page and told him there's rampant infighting

Yes. What you are missing is that the second does not change the former.

and you chose to side with him. I've linked to a quite non-exhaustive list documenting the level of infighting between these groups that the US has provided support and aid for in various forms for decades. They are not united in a fight against the US, although any one of them likely has and would in the future conduct attacks on the US. They are fighting for control over the region that the US has worked tirelessly to destabilize, which means much infighting as well. Only the blind deny that widespread sectarian violence is US policy.

Given how much blood and treasure we spent avoiding it, I would suggest that only the most conspiratorially minded would suggest that it is.

The group, (ISIS/ISIL, IS) in its original form, was composed of and supported by a variety of Sunni insurgent groups, including its predecessor organizations, the Mujahideen Shura Council, the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI) and Al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), the insurgent groups Jaysh al-Fatiheen, Jund al-Sahaba, Katbiyan Ansar Al-Tawhid wal Sunnah and Jeish al-Taiifa al-Mansoura, and a number of Iraqi tribes that profess Sunni Islam.

Good on you for finally bothering to look up the groups you have decided to talk about on Wikipedia. The next time you decide to do some reading, I'd recommend clearing up the "ISIL/ISI/AQI" past a bit - go back and take a look at them under a man named "Abu Musab al-Zarqawi", with regards to "widespread sectarian violence", and find out which side of that conflict we were on. :)
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Such as?..

Your arguments thus far have been bipartisan.
Placing the blame of a multidimensional issue on one individual is the paragon of simplicity.
It completely ignores every other variable. I have not made absolutist claims.




Only one man was the President of the USA on March 20, 2003 when the USA with its partners attacked Iraq, that man was G.W. Bush.

Do you deny that fact?
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

You almost always stick your nose in where it's not needed or wanted.

What does that opinion have to do with me being correct?
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Ah.
It is your belief that all Muslims are the same,
and that therefore support to mostly tribal / warlord-esque forces in the 1980's therefore translates into support of two AQ variants in the 2010's?




All Muslims are Muslims, Just like all Christians are Christians.

A Muslim in Iraq worships the same Allah that a Muslim in Dearborn, Michigan worships.

Each Muslim is a separate human being, just like each Christian is a separate human being.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Who ever said that you were correct about anything?

Where did you get that idea?

Where does it say that anybody needs to agree with me for me to be correct. I was correct. He did not make an absolute statement. Fact.

I got that idea when I saw that he did not make an absolute statement. When I pointed it out to you I was hoping that you would also see that his statement was absolutely not an absolute statement but apparently you absolutely did not see that he did not make an absolute statement.

All good... :lol:
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

When the next attack happens here, and Innocent Americans die, that is squarely on Obama....

Just like when the 9/11/2001 attack happened during Bush's administration you guys put it squarely on Clinton.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Only one man was the President of the USA on March 20, 2003 when the USA with its partners attacked Iraq, that man was G.W. Bush.

Do you deny that fact?

President does not somehow equal all knowing, all powerful dictator. As I have already pointed out, GW had support by allies and political enemies alike. It's funny how people like to pretend that never happened/.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

President does not somehow equal all knowing, all powerful dictator. As I have already pointed out,
GW had support by allies and political enemies alike. It's funny how people like to pretend that never happened/
.




G.W. Bush's allies and political enemies didn't take the USA to war in Iraq, Mr. Bush did that all by himself.

And historians will give him all of the credit that he deserves for that mistake.

Read some history books 30 years or so from now and see what they say.
 
Last edited:
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

President does not somehow equal all knowing, all powerful dictator. As I have already pointed out, GW had support by allies and political enemies alike. It's funny how people like to pretend that never happened/.

The presidents team had so successfully demonized the dissenting voice as UN-American/UN-patriotic it stifled meaningful dissent, politicians thinking of their political careers and all. Tampering with the evidence as was latter pointed out in the leaked Downing Street Memo (fixing the intelligence around the policy) and working the country into a frenzy with the fear mongering of mushroom clouds over a US city!!
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

The USA should never have stuck its nose in Iraq.

True. And while there may be situations which legitimately call for military intervention, intervening in through this imperial methodology is sure to backfire.
 
Back
Top Bottom