• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’ [W:326]

Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Why does anyone with even a modest amount of intelligence think that the USofA can intervene in areas like Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan without it causing more issues than it "fixes"?

Why does anyone think "we" can "fix" anything in countries with those kinds of cultures, histories, and beliefs?

It's just plain silly.




Tell that to the Neo-cons who promoted G.W. Bush's disaster in Iraq, which the USA will be paying for a long time from now.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

They didn't see **** because they're blinded by their Political correctness and their allegiance to do nothing...

The funniest part is that they claimed they "saw it coming" so what does that make them? stupid or tolerant?

They're ****ing idiots..
.




But they were smart enough to oppose G. W. Bush who made this happen, eh?
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

As a libertarian I will tell you why...

Because if we don't they will unify - get a nuke and will melt your skin off...

I don't agree with intervention either
but these radicals are all on the same chapter, and once they're on the same page - we're in trouble, because they don't care weather they live or die - death to the Islamic radicals is a privilege if they do it taking out a non-Muslim....




If you don't agree with it, then why are you promoting it by not strongly opposing it?
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

The US is greatly benefited by a divided ME. Handing arms to one side while "supporting" another is not new policy. Creating confusion is the oldest tactic used in warfare.
And the war for declining global resources continues..




And it looks like China and Russia are in pretty good shape in the resource department..
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Another attack is imminent. And we will again, fail to respond in any meaningful way. This, I fear, will be a repeat of WW1 and WW2. America and it's allies will fail to stop an imminent large scale world conflict.
In the end, more Americans will die then if we had just taken care of this problem when we had the chance while we had forces in Iraq.




The USA should have stayed well clear of Iraq and the Middle East in general.

If it had, we'd be a lot better off.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Because if we don't they will unify - get a nuke and will melt your skin off...


Terrorism appears to be working just fine based on this comment.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

I would say that he means precisely that - everyone in the ANF/ISIL/AQSL conflict is pretty much in agreement about everything except a few tactical considerations and who is in charge.

When it comes to things like "should we launch attacks against the West", the answer is "yes." Unequivocally.

If anything, the ongoing infighting makes life more dangerous in the short term, as flashy attacks will allow one side a leg up in relation to the other as far as donations and recruits are concerned.

"Should we launch attacks against the West" is pretty much where any similarities would end. I'm somewhat baffled by your lack of knowledge of militant Islamic groups.

BEIRUT (Reuters) - An al Qaeda splinter group has wrested control of key parts of the eastern Syrian province of Deir al-Zor from other rebel groups, activists said on Sunday, worsening infighting that has handicapped the insurgency against President Bashar al-Assad.

I think "infighting" was the word I chose as well.

(CNN) -- The leader of an al Qaeda affiliate in Syria is calling for an end to days of bloody infighting between opposition factions, according to an online message.

Al-Qaeda group known as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) on Tuesday urged its fighters to “crush” other rebel groups in Syria, in an audio message from the group’s spokesman.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...l-Qaeda-groups-fight-each-other-in-Syria.html

The others were incredulous, recalled one, who supports the Nusra Front, a rival group that has Al Qaeda’s official stamp of approval as its representative in the fight against President Bashar al-Assad. But the man on the truck replied, “We are here to establish the Islamic state, not to fight Assad.”

Clashes Between Militants and Army Spread in IraqJAN. 12, 2014
Such disputes helped set off the infighting that has swept insurgent-held northern Syria for the past week, leaving more than 500 dead, as a broad array of factions have turned against the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, known as ISIS, in a showdown over tactics, power and ideology within a Sunni jihadist movement that has drawn fighters from across the world.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/13/w...inst-most-radical-group-tied-to-al-qaeda.html

Syrian rebels also fighting al Qaeda, other hard-liners for villagers’ hearts and minds

http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2...lso-fighting-al-qaeda-other-hard-li/?page=all

Syrian Rebel Groups Fight Each Other As Ghurabaa Al-Sham And Judicial Council Engage In Mutual Kidnappings.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/18/syrian-rebel-groups-fight_n_3298546.html
 
Last edited:
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Intent does not equal ability.

Oh. Okay. So it is your argument that Al Qaeda does not have the ability to launch attacks against the West. Okedoke.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

"Should we launch attacks against the West" is pretty much where any similarities would end.

That is incorrect. Take a look, for example, at Maqdisi's critique of the declaration of the Caliphate. What is under debate here is not any of the strategic goals, but rather tactical considerations (whether it is time to begin targeting fellow apostate "Muslims" such as the Shia), who is the actual Emir al Mu'minin, and where in the process the movement is.

I'm somewhat baffled by your lack of knowledge of militant Islamic groups.

:lol: says the guy who thought that the FSA was ISIL.

BEIRUT (Reuters) - An al Qaeda splinter group has wrested control of key parts of the eastern Syrian province of Deir al-Zor from other rebel groups, activists said on Sunday, worsening infighting that has handicapped the insurgency against President Bashar al-Assad.

I think "infighting" was the word I chose as well.

(CNN) -- The leader of an al Qaeda affiliate in Syria is calling for an end to days of bloody infighting between opposition factions, according to an online message.

Al-Qaeda group known as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) on Tuesday urged its fighters to “crush” other rebel groups in Syria, in an audio message from the group’s spokesman.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...l-Qaeda-groups-fight-each-other-in-Syria.html

The others were incredulous, recalled one, who supports the Nusra Front, a rival group that has Al Qaeda’s official stamp of approval as its representative in the fight against President Bashar al-Assad. But the man on the truck replied, “We are here to establish the Islamic state, not to fight Assad.”

Clashes Between Militants and Army Spread in IraqJAN. 12, 2014
Such disputes helped set off the infighting that has swept insurgent-held northern Syria for the past week, leaving more than 500 dead, as a broad array of factions have turned against the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, known as ISIS, in a showdown over tactics, power and ideology within a Sunni jihadist movement that has drawn fighters from across the world.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/13/w...inst-most-radical-group-tied-to-al-qaeda.html

Syrian rebels also fighting al Qaeda, other hard-liners for villagers’ hearts and minds

Syrian rebels also fighting al Qaeda, other hard-liners for villagers' hearts and minds - Washington Times

Syrian Rebel Groups Fight Each Other As Ghurabaa Al-Sham And Judicial Council Engage In Mutual Kidnappings.

Syrian Rebel Groups Fight Each Other As Ghurabaa Al-Sham And Judicial Council Engage In Mutual Kidnappings

I find it interesting that you continue to post sources that actually manage to discredit your arguments.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

That is incorrect. Take a look, for example, at Maqdisi's critique of the declaration of the Caliphate. What is under debate here is not any of the strategic goals, but rather tactical considerations (whether it is time to begin targeting fellow apostate "Muslims" such as the Shia), who is the actual Emir al Mu'minin, and where in the process the movement is.



:lol: says the guy who thought that the FSA was ISIL.



I find it interesting that you continue to post sources that actually manage to discredit your arguments.

I disagreed with Nick that middle eastern militant Islamic groups are on the same chapter or page and told him there's rampant infighting, and you chose to side with him. I've linked to a quite non-exhaustive list documenting the level of infighting between these groups that the US has provided support and aid for in various forms for decades. They are not united in a fight against the US, although any one of them likely has and would in the future conduct attacks on the US. They are fighting for control over the region that the US has worked tirelessly to destabilize, which means much infighting as well. Only the blind deny that widespread sectarian violence is US policy.

The group, (ISIS/ISIL, IS) in its original form, was composed of and supported by a variety of Sunni insurgent groups, including its predecessor organizations, the Mujahideen Shura Council, the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI) and Al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), the insurgent groups Jaysh al-Fatiheen, Jund al-Sahaba, Katbiyan Ansar Al-Tawhid wal Sunnah and Jeish al-Taiifa al-Mansoura, and a number of Iraqi tribes that profess Sunni Islam.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant
 
Last edited:
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

if we had just taken care of this problem when we had the chance while we had forces in Iraq.

How do we take care of a problem when the problem is so much intertwined with Arab culture, itself? The hubris of the neocons was such that they thought they could somehow turn Arabs into westerners. They couldn't, and so the results we are seeing today have more to do with the removal of the strong-armed leader than it does the subsequent failure at nation building.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

[/B]




That's your incorrect opinion, which you are entitled to and won't change anything in today's real world.






Myself, I place the blame directly where it belongs on Mr. G. W. Bush whose stupid action in Iraq set this whole chain of events in motion.

The odds of an incredibly complex issue being one person's fault is inimitably insignificant.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

The odds of an incredibly complex issue being one person's fault is inimitably insignificant.




G.W. Bush was the guy who kicked off the un-necessary Iraq war which the USA will be paying for a long time from now, with nothing to show for the lives lost and money thrown away.




"The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen." ~ Tommy Smothers
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

G.W. Bush was the guy who kicked off the un-necessary Iraq war which the USA will be paying for a long time from now, with nothing to show for the lives lost and money thrown away.




"The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen." ~ Tommy Smothers

GW wasn't the only one who supported this war. Besides, US military presence through out the ME and many other parts of the world could be one of the few variables controlling and reducing inflation. With the billions ... even trillions of dollars being spent, that is less money in direct circulation.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

G.W. Bush was the guy who kicked off the un-necessary Iraq war which the USA will be paying for a long time from now, with nothing to show for the lives lost and money thrown away.




"The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen." ~ Tommy Smothers

Which is so much more than obvious its quite remarkable that that failure STILL finds support on this board!!
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

GW wasn't the only one who supported this war.
Besides, US military presence through out the ME and many other parts of the world could be one of the few variables controlling and reducing inflation. With the billions ... even trillions of dollars being spent, that is less money in direct circulation.




Correct, but he was the guy who kicked it off.

That honor belongs to him alone.




As G.W. Bush said, "I'm the decider."
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

GW wasn't the only one who supported this war. Besides, US military presence through out the ME and many other parts of the world could be one of the few variables controlling and reducing inflation. With the billions ... even trillions of dollars being spent, that is less money in direct circulation.

Totally true. Unfortunately, because many democrats were reticent to oppose it on the strength of the Bush campaign to demonize as anti-American and unpatriotic, those that did. And, your office might get anthraxed!
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Which is so much more than obvious its quite remarkable that that failure STILL finds support on this board!
!




Every stupid idea will always be supported by at least a few people.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

No, it's this guy's fault.....

10574406_10201919255334797_2463947278840471729_n.jpg


LOL.

You give sKerry way too much credit.

Herman is so much smarter!
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

You have been schooled on this lie multiple times now and continue to repeat it.
The US has not supported ISIL or ANF.




Who helped the Muslims in Afghanistan kick the Soviet Union out of there?

Any ideas?
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Correct, but he was the guy who kicked it off.

That honor belongs to him alone.




As G.W. Bush said, "I'm the decider."

Bush consulted with the intelligence agencies of our allies before invading Iraq, and each of them said Saddam Hussein had WMD. In addition, it was a bipartisan decision to go to war. Kerry, Pelosi, Reid, and several others agreed Hussein had WMD. Even Hillary Clinton supported Bush's decision in the interest of national security. Also, GW's comment on being the decider mainly had to do with the instatement of Rumsfeld as Secretary of Defense.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Bush consulted with the intelligence agencies of our allies before invading Iraq, and each of them said Saddam Hussein had WMD. In addition, it was a bipartisan decision to go to war. Kerry, Pelosi, Reid, and several others agreed Hussein had WMD. Even Hillary Clinton supported Bush's decision in the interest of national security. Also, GW's comment on being the decider mainly had to do with the instatement of Rumsfeld as Secretary of Defense.




Whatever.

I was raised on a farm and I know the difference between BS and peanut butter.

What you are trying to spread here is not peanut butter.

It was G.W. Bush who was the President of the USA at the time and it was he who took the USA to war in Iraq. He gets all of the credit for that.

You may not want to accept that, but it's an ironclad fact.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Whatever.

I was raised on a farm and I know the difference between BS and peanut butter.

What you are trying to spread here is not peanut butter.

It was G.W. Bush who was the President of the USA at the time and it was he who took the USA to war in Iraq. He gets all of the credit for that.

You may not want to accept that, but it's an ironclad fact.

If the US president is now Dictator, and answers to no one, you'd be correct. If this is indeed the case, best take up arms now, march to DC, and throw the resident despots out on their asses. Then again, it must be Obama's fault that everything GW did is being undone. Or is that still GW's fault? lol
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

If the US president is now Dictator, and answers to no one, you'd be correct. If this is indeed the case, best take up arms now, march to DC, and throw the resident despots out on their asses. Then again,
it must be Obama's fault that everything GW did
is being undone. Or is that still GW's fault? lol




Bush didn't accomplish anything in Iraq besides giving Iran a friendly state for a neighbor.

That's a fact, deal with it or don't deal with it, your choice.
 
Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

Bush didn't accomplish anything in Iraq besides giving Iran a friendly state for a neighbor.

That's a fact, deal with it or don't deal with it, your choice.

Absolutist statements are almost always wrong.
 
Back
Top Bottom