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Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis[W:62]

Perhaps you shouldn't wander into posts you know nothing about. I was asking the same thing. I have no clue what the poster was referring to when they wrote about Africa not getting the information.

I guess for you, looking foolish is the price you pay for thinking you are clever.

The poster didn't say anything about Africa not getting information

You look foolish claiming that it did
 
But to say ( as Fenton claimed) that it is soley our immigration policy and nothing to do with drugs is simply not the case, or no? If there were no drugs involved do you think the immigration rates would be the same or not? Yes, our immigration laws are broken but it is also the drug violence that many try to escape from. We have a war on drugs, yet that is also a failed program, but if it wasn't so failed I think it would help somewhat of the problem. I can't say for sure one way or another but knowing how it is atleast in Mexico, I think being proactive in that war years ago could have helped the current situation. Now it's a huge mess.

If it weren't the drug violence, it would be some other sort of violence that would be used as an excuse. Again, there are plenty of places in both Central and South America where there is little to no violence. If escaping the violence really were the motivation, it would cost them far less time, travelling, hassle, family separation and money to escape it regionally. Illegals come for the money and services. Take that away and we're closer to an answer.

As to the war on drugs, the history of it tells the story of that. Cocaine and heroin were once legal in the US. Chances are good that if you bought from a snake oil salesman here back in the 1800s, the curative would contain at least one of those. As a consequence we grew a huge addiction problem here in the US. That was the reason for the pharmacy laws and then the bans. Those nations that supplied us then stayed in the business even after the drugs became illegal. Why? Because they saw the chance to hugely profit from the enterprise. They CHOSE to be illegal suppliers rather than shift their exports to something legal. In other words, greed.
 
Albeit with a 70% reduction in business. Lol, you guys will go to any extreme to cover up American responsibility, including making excuses for American drug addiction! :lamo

Again, so? If you run an illegal business trafficking in addictive substances it is not your customers responsibility for your choice in doing so.
 
Well to be fair we do have an active 'war of drugs' and where do the drugs come from? If we did something about that, it would help control the reason and the number of illegal immigrants from Central America.

But thats nothing new.

Why didn't we have a surge of diseased illegals in the 90s ?

Or the 70s ?
 
Again, so? If you run an illegal business trafficking in addictive substances it is not your customers responsibility for your choice in doing so.

We're talking about angles of attack to address the problem posed in the op, albeit the poster intended it to sound as though those leaders blamed it ALL on the US, and of course that's false. If Americans ceased to provide the demand, it would have a huge effect on this crisis, if both parties, when in power, would enforce ALL existing immigration laws, and if we could keep our CIA out of the region, we might well be discussing other problems that need addressing.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Removing the power heads is like cutting off the head of a Hydra. With such a high murder rate the gang leaders probably don't live very long anyway and are quickly replaced.

I don't know what the answer is but perhaps legalizing pot and cutting off their weapons supply might help enormously.

Perhaps but it seemed to quell the violence a bit when Escobar was taken down in Columbia.

I agree with you on changing our drug policies here at home to stem the demand of illegal trade.
 
We're talking about angles of attack to address the problem posed in the op, albeit the poster intended it to sound as though those leaders blamed it ALL on the US, and of course that's false. If Americans ceased to provide the demand, it would have a huge effect on this crisis, if both parties, when in power, would enforce ALL existing immigration laws, and if we could keep our CIA out of the region, we might well be discussing other problems that need addressing.

I'm fine with reducing the problems of addiction in the US, also fine with cutting the CIA off from being anything other than intel gathering and analysis. They should never had an action element to begin with. But again, if the CIA were tethered and Americans stopped foreign drug use altogether, there would still be drug cartels and there would still be violence in that region. Btw, do we seriously believe there is no cocaine use in the rest of the world?
 
But thats nothing new.

Why didn't we have a surge of diseased illegals in the 90s ?

Or the 70s ?

Hold up just a minute there - diseased? oh my, not this one again, you realize these kids are more likely better vaccinated than us, right?

Disease Threat From Immigrant Children Wildly Overstated | The Texas Observer

Fact check: UNICEF reports that 93 percent of kids in Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador are vaccinated against measles. That’s better than American kids (92 percent).

Will Immigrants Make You Sick? - Forbes


Screening immigrants for vaccine-preventable diseases is a good policy and allows for vaccination for susceptible people, however many recent outbreaks of diseases like measles and mumps have been imported by Americans traveling abroad and returning to communities with poor vaccination rates. Vaccination of Americans is a priority for both domestic and imported risks.

Siegel calls out some specific diseases he thinks Central American immigrant children are importing. Scabies is an unpleasant skin disease caused by small mites that burrow into the skin. It’s relatively common in the US, especially among people living in crowded and un-hygeinic conditions, but it is not confined to any particular socio-economic class. It requires prolonged skin-to-skin contact for transmission, but can also be transmitted from inanimate objects. The mites can only live for a few days off the body, so object-to-person transmission (“fomites”) is not very efficient.

He also calls out drug-resistant tuberculosis. This dangerous disease is thankfully still relatively rare in the US. Imported cases are a concern, but Central America is not a hotbed of T B.

Scabies and TB are most efficiently spread in crowded conditions, like those immigrants are held in if not sent out into the general population. Keeping immigrants confined increases the risk of these diseases.

Siegal also mentions a few vanishingly rare diseases such as Hansen’s Disease (leprosy), another not-easily spread infection.

Ignorant and/or mendacious accusations like these inflame fears and hatred but do little to help prevent the spread of infectious diseases.




really I don't know why I am bothering, it's not like reading facts will change your mind.
 
The poster didn't say anything about Africa not getting information

You look foolish claiming that it did

:shock:

Run along Sangha, I tried to give you an out, but I guess you just want to look stupid. Perhaps you can't help yourself.

Quote:

When Europe was mostly destroyed the information was still there, the idea of libraries, schooling, equality and such were still there. It was just a matter of getting some concrete and some building materials.

Africa and to a slighter extent South America weren't even given the information that Europe or the U.S has.​
 
Hold up just a minute there - diseased? oh my, not this one again, you realize these kids are more likely better vaccinated than us, right?

Disease Threat From Immigrant Children Wildly Overstated | The Texas Observer



Will Immigrants Make You Sick? - Forbes







really I don't know why I am bothering, it's not like reading facts will change your mind.

Its bigoted bull crap. The Irish said this about the potato famine Irish immigrants that flooded us. The mass of Germans were seen that way when they came. The Italians were done the same way when they came. The latest wave of immigration is always met with conservative factions playing this bigotry bullcrap against them of how they are dirty and diseased. Every time.
 
I'm fine with reducing the problems of addiction in the US, also fine with cutting the CIA off from being anything other than intel gathering and analysis. They should never had an action element to begin with. But again, if the CIA were tethered and Americans stopped foreign drug use altogether, there would still be drug cartels and there would still be violence in that region. Btw, do we seriously believe there is no cocaine use in the rest of the world?

CB, read what I actually post before commenting. I DIDN'T SAY THERE WAS NO COCAINE USE IN THE REST OF THE WORLD. What I did say was that if Americans kicked their addictions, it would cut their business by 70%, a HUGE blow. Keep the CIA from sabatoging their infrastructures and governments, and inforce our immigration laws and we can focus on other problems. This one would be gone for us.

The United States is the primary destination, but around 25 to 30% of global cocaine production travels from Latin America to Europe, typically via West Africa.

Illegal drug trade in Latin America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
:shock:

Run along Sangha, I tried to give you an out, but I guess you just want to look stupid. Perhaps you can't help yourself.

Quote:

When Europe was mostly destroyed the information was still there, the idea of libraries, schooling, equality and such were still there. It was just a matter of getting some concrete and some building materials.

Africa and to a slighter extent South America weren't even given the information that Europe or the U.S has.​

YOu didn't post a link to the post because that would show that the quote you just posted came from a different post.

Here's what the post you responded to actually said
Also, for Europe's recovery post WWII the U.S. held Europe's hand like a mother would a toddler.

We never did that for Africa and we sure as **** never did that for South America, both countries which WE PURPOSELY ****ed up big time.

Why do you tell such obvious lies?
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

In fairness, they said the US "SHARES" blame. They recognized that they need to do more with their limited abilities and pointed out that the US's successful campaigners in Columbia and Mexico have pushed gangs and drug lords into their countries.
Oh my...Well, in that case I say we build a wall, secure our border, send all illegals back, and cut all aid we give them...I certainly wouldn't want to appear to be involved in their chaos in any way. Let them deal with it.
 
YOu didn't post a link to the post because that would show that the quote you just posted came from a different post.

Here's what the post you responded to actually said


Why do you tell such obvious lies?

I'm sorry, I don't do crazy. Run along sangha
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Oh my...Well, in that case I say we build a wall, secure our border, send all illegals back, and cut all aid we give them...I certainly wouldn't want to appear to be involved in their chaos in any way. Let them deal with it.

Yeah, that's a good idea.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis


That talks about granting refugee status to kids who are still in Honduras, and not yet in the US. From the article:

the Obama administration is considering whether to allow hundreds of minors and young adults from Honduras into the United States without making the dangerous trek through Mexico, according to a draft of the proposal.

If approved, the plan would direct the government to screen thousands of children and youths in Honduras to see if they can enter the United States as refugees or on emergency humanitarian grounds

Your post claimed that kids who entered the US illegally were going to be granted refugee status, which is obviously untrue. Here's your post again, since you seem to have forgotten what you said

Those other countries are right, the US is showing lousy leadership when it comes to the immigration issue. By giving refugee status to minors who made it into the country Congress and POTUS are encouraging more illegals to come into the country. There's gonna be a flood of people coming across the border soon.

Again, the article you just linked to spoke about giving refugee status to kids who had *not* "made it into the country"
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Oh my...Well, in that case I say we build a wall, secure our border, send all illegals back, and cut all aid we give them...I certainly wouldn't want to appear to be involved in their chaos in any way. Let them deal with it.

This would fit right in with the isolationist policies so many seem to favor.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

This would fit right in with the isolationist policies so many seem to favor.

It would...But my tongue in cheek aside, I am getting burned right up to my finely chiseled ass being told how we are such a problem for the rest of the world while they take our money, and cry for our help when they are in deep, then once we give it we are something they scrape off their shoe. They can all kiss my ass.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

It would...But my tongue in cheek aside, I am getting burned right up to my finely chiseled ass being told how we are such a problem for the rest of the world while they take our money, and cry for our help when they are in deep, then once we give it we are something they scrape off their shoe. They can all kiss my ass.

Tsk, tsk, poor fella. Finely chiseled eh??
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

It would...But my tongue in cheek aside, I am getting burned right up to my finely chiseled ass being told how we are such a problem for the rest of the world while they take our money, and cry for our help when they are in deep, then once we give it we are something they scrape off their shoe. They can all kiss my ass.

Then from now on lets be sure to let our neo-con politicians know to stay OUT of places like that, and quit trying to force American democracy, freeDOM, and liberty on the natives....
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Then from now on lets be sure to let our neo-con politicians know to stay OUT of places like that, and quit trying to force American democracy, freeDOM, and liberty on the natives....

I agree, let's do that.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

It would...But my tongue in cheek aside, I am getting burned right up to my finely chiseled ass being told how we are such a problem for the rest of the world while they take our money, and cry for our help when they are in deep, then once we give it we are something they scrape off their shoe. They can all kiss my ass.

I knew it was tongue-in-cheek but with a great deal of truth in there as well. I would just eliminate foreign aid to all these countries, beginning with Mexico. The US is relinquishing its sovereignty to these nations and until the southern borders are under control any progress in changing the situation is not possible. I have to think this is deliberate, especially when the US Department of Agriculture is advertising free food (in Spanish), and the success, and ease, with which illegals can enter.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Then from now on lets be sure to let our neo-con politicians know to stay OUT of places like that, and quit trying to force American democracy, freeDOM, and liberty on the natives....

Actually it's maintaining democracy, freedom and liberty in the United States that should be the real concern for you.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

I knew it was tongue-in-cheek but with a great deal of truth in there as well. I would just eliminate foreign aid to all these countries, beginning with Mexico. The US is relinquishing its sovereignty to these nations and until the southern borders are under control any progress in changing the situation is not possible. I have to think this is deliberate, especially when the US Department of Agriculture is advertising free food (in Spanish), and the success, and ease, with which illegals can enter.

I've only been saying its deliberate, FOREVER. Secure borders (borders "under control" as you put it) are not in the interests of big business, and BOTH parties pander to big business. You WILL NOT see our borders under control, take that to the bank, regardless of which party is in the WH. Pity you both understand that, and fail to understand that at the same time.
 
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