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U.S. Considering Refugee Status for Hondurans

Montecresto said:
Typical failure to accept responsibility. You know you blame a half of America every damn day with your blame Obama and the democrats for everything. Stop it with the partisan bull****, unless you really don't care that America is collapsing, all the way around from failed administration policies after failed administration policies. The partisan bickering and finger pointing distracts from the fact that we have a single party with two wings on the same ****ing course!!
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Partisan bickering? You're beating the wrong horse there. No, I don't blame Obama for everything wrong in America, I don't blame the dems for that either. I call them out on the things they are wrong about, and that's a lot. I'm not all in for the republicans either. Lately they've been a bunch of simpering cowards. And they've done plenty wrong.

But NONE of that excuses the blame America rant nor does it make it accurate. It's the goto move for those who don't want to recognize that Central America would be the same ****hole it is today even without historical American involvement. They did and continue to do this to themselves.
 
shrubnose said:
Exactly what makes the USA better than any South American country?

Fill us in.
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Why? If you don't know that already you won't believe anything I say. The fact of the matter is people WANT to come here, they don't want to go there.
 
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Lakryte said:
You mean you never noticed the asterisk on the statute?

Give me your tired, your poor
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free*​

*Mexicans, Central Americans,
and South Americans not included​
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That moronic little argument has been debunked so many times I'm surprised there's anyone who hasn't gotten he message yet.
 
Lakryte said:
What in the article is false? Please be specific. You are committing the genetic fallacy.
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No. Ariana can play her little editorial games all she wants. You're asking us to counter someone else's arguments when you haven't the stuff to make those arguments yourself.
 
Montecresto said:
You too are denying the CIA's role in overthrowing left leaning democratic governments in Central America. You guys are something. Here's why there's one party with two wings. Replacing left leaning democracies with right wing dictatorships was a long running US policy through both democratic and republican administrations. Damn it man, if we could ever get the partisan out of the damn way, we might just fix Washington.
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Once again, who cares? You don't seem to get it, we've had tons of foreign influence in American elections. We Americans either ignore their influence or bow to it, that's OUR choice. Half of the leaders in South and Central America are folks our government doesn't want there, but still, there they are.
 
Montecresto said:
Did you just say that. Did you just say that with a straight face. They aren't running from anything!! Damn I'm glad your not in charge of anything. Good gawd, how will we ever repair anything.

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTLAC/Resources/FINAL_VOLUME_I_ENGLISH_CrimeAndViolence.pdf
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At least try to think it out a bit. If they were solely running from the violence, there are plenty of places closer and less expensive to get to that do not have the violence.
 
clownboy said:
No. Ariana can play her little editorial games all she wants. You're asking us to counter someone else's arguments when you haven't the stuff to make those arguments yourself.
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The only one playing games is you, as you refuse to address the points raised in the article.
 
Lakryte said:
The only one playing games is you, as you refuse to address the points raised in the article.
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Sorry I won't do the homework you've assigned. If I posted the link to another site with a known bias and penchant for editorializing to the right and told you to answer their propaganda point by point, just how would you respond?

Get a grip, it isn't the fault of the US these folks are coming here. Not in any way shape or form. Central and South America is a big place, many countries. If your thesis were anything but rank bull****, they'd not be coming here.
 
Lakryte said:
What in the article is false? Please be specific. You are committing the genetic fallacy.
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nope i have no interest in reading heavily liberal biased articles thanks. that is exactly what the huffpo is.
they are known for bad reporting and heavy liberal bias. the only people that read their articles and think they are worth anything are left wing liberals. they have about as much credit as a source as the dailykos.
 
Montecresto said:
Actually, if you had opened the link you'd have seen that its not a Huffpo article, they just picked it up, you also would have seen that its not a partisan piece, its criticle of both democratic and republican administrations thru the years.
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Then post the main source and leave the bias huffpo out of it and depending on who wrote it i might look at it.

as i said the only blame the US incurs is not enforcing our immigration laws. if we would have enforced our immigration laws then they would realize that coming here is useless.
 
clownboy said:
Sorry I won't do the homework you've assigned. If I posted the link to another site with a known bias and penchant for editorializing to the right and told you to answer their propaganda point by point, just how would you respond?

Get a grip, it isn't the fault of the US these folks are coming here. Not in any way shape or form. Central and South America is a big place, many countries. If your thesis were anything but rank bull****, they'd not be coming here.
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ludin said:
nope i have no interest in reading heavily liberal biased articles thanks. that is exactly what the huffpo is.
they are known for bad reporting and heavy liberal bias. the only people that read their articles and think they are worth anything are left wing liberals. they have about as much credit as a source as the dailykos.
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You both fail to use valid reasoning and yet again commit a genetic fallacy.

"This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something's or someone's origins. It's similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone's argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit."

Refute the article, or don't bother posting.
 
Lakryte said:
You both fail to use valid reasoning and yet again commit a genetic fallacy.

"This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something's or someone's origins. It's similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone's argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit."

Refute the article, or don't bother posting.
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That's the problem with having only half the knowledge you think you do - you only get it half right at best. We are not avoiding the argument, we've been actively engaging you in this argument. What we won't do is engage a propaganda org's argument just because you cannot make the case on your own.
 
clownboy said:
That's the problem with having only half the knowledge you think you do - you only get it half right at best. We are not avoiding the argument, we've been actively engaging you in this argument. What we won't do is engage a propaganda org's argument just because you cannot make the case on your own.
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You are avoiding the argument. You have refused to addressed the points brought up in the article--let alone even bother to read them. Your only response has been a genetic fallacy, which you are still doing, and now you are throwing in ad hominem as well.

If you are so confident that the article is biased and false, then prove it. Otherwise you are just wasting time.
 
Lakryte said:
You both fail to use valid reasoning and yet again commit a genetic fallacy.

"This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something's or someone's origins. It's similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone's argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit."

Refute the article, or don't bother posting.
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you don't make the rules here so you don't tell people what to do.
you have failed to address the main point of the topic at hand there by committing your own fallacy.

in any case we haven't committed this fallacy because the huffpo has a long history of liberal bias in it's reporting.
the founder arianna huffington is a well known liberal. so there is no ad hominem or fallacy simple stating a fact.

The fact is these kids are coming here because we refuse to enforce our immigration laws. this administration more than others have given them even more reason to come here by refusing to deport any kids brought here against their will or who have been in the US for so long.

to solve this problem is simple. give them a warm meal give them a bed for a night and a plane ticket back home the next day.
 
Lakryte said:
You are avoiding the argument. You have refused to addressed the points brought up in the article--let alone even bother to read them. Your only response has been a genetic fallacy, which you are still doing, and now you are throwing in ad hominem as well.

If you are so confident that the article is biased and false, then prove it. Otherwise you are just wasting time.
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nope the argument is that the president is going to give more refugee permits to these countries when they are not refugee's.

the argument is not what some bias writer at the huffpo says. you don't even know what the argument is. so the only person here not addressing the argument is you.
 
HogWash said:
For one thing the language of the countries. They need to remain where their native language is spoken. That in and of itself makes the South American countries a better place to send those people. Why don't you volunteer to take them in your European country of retreat? eh?
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I understand your frustration. Hispanics are coming into the U.S. in droves and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Your children will be minorities in their own country before long, and your grand-children may end up being the permanent underclass of their generation.

My children, on the other hand, will enjoy their rich Mexican heritage while living in this wonderful land of yours. I'm sure there will be enough fast-food establishments for your lineage to work at while serving food to my lineage.
 
ludin said:
you don't make the rules here so you don't tell people what to do.
you have failed to address the main point of the topic at hand there by committing your own fallacy.

in any case we haven't committed this fallacy because the huffpo has a long history of liberal bias in it's reporting.
the founder arianna huffington is a well known liberal. so there is no ad hominem or fallacy simple stating a fact.

The fact is these kids are coming here because we refuse to enforce our immigration laws. this administration more than others have given them even more reason to come here by refusing to deport any kids brought here against their will or who have been in the US for so long.

to solve this problem is simple. give them a warm meal give them a bed for a night and a plane ticket back home the next day.
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Refusing to refute the article for that reason is the definition of the genetic fallacy. Quite an obvious, text-book example actually.

Would you like me to quote the most relevant points in the article which you apparently will never read for you? Or will you just ignore that as well?
 
Texmex said:
I understand your frustration. Hispanics are coming into the U.S. in droves and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Your children will be minorities in their own country before long, and your grand-children may end up being the permanent underclass of their generation.

My children, on the other hand, will enjoy their rich Mexican heritage while living in this wonderful land of yours. I'm sure there will be enough fast-food establishments for your lineage to work at while serving food to my lineage.
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Exactly...if you can get by the africans.
 
With respect to the refugee issue, the appropriate conventions can be found at: UNHCR - Convention and Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees

One of the key documents used to define a refugee is the arrangement of February 10, 1938. That arrangement deals with people who were fleeing from Germany and has the greatest applicability to those fleeing Honduras.

In part, that arrangement defines a refugee as "Persons possessing or having possessed German nationality and not possessing any other nationality who are proved not to enjoy, in law or in fact, the protection of the German Government."

With respect to those in Honduras, a key test would involve whether the Honduran government is capable of protecting those persons from loss of life or freedom (parameters cited in Article 31 of the 1951 convention related to refugees. Article 31 states:

The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence.

Article 1 cites the 1938 arrangement.

The Hondurans would be entitled to due process to demonstrate whether or not they meet the requirements of obtaining refugee status. The possible U.S. proposal would provide screening to determine such status.

From The New York Times:

If approved, the plan would direct the government to screen thousands of children and youths in Honduras to see if they can enter the United States as refugees or on emergency humanitarian grounds. It would be the first American refugee effort in a nation reachable by land to the United States, the White House said, putting the violence in Honduras on the level of humanitarian emergencies in Haiti and Vietnam, where such programs have been conducted in the past amid war and major crises.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/25/w...ing-of-youths-seeking-entry-to-honduras-.html

In short, the U.S. appears to be acting consistent with the conventions to which it has agreed. Similar obligations exist among the other countries that have also entered those conventions. That this complicates the ongoing passionate immigration debate in the U.S. is a different matter.

Finally, there are no guarantees that every person screened will be designated as a refugee. The merits of their situation will likely determine the outcome.
 
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clownboy said:
Why? If you don't know that already you won't believe anything I say.
The fact of the matter is people WANT to come here, they don't want to go there.
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People usually don't go where they don't want to go.

If the USA would spend some money on effective, fair control of its borders it could save some of the money that it spends sending people back to their homes.
 
U.S. Considering Refugee Status for Hondurans
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i'm good with it. let the kiddos stay.
 
clownboy said:
At least try to think it out a bit. If they were solely running from the violence, there are plenty of places closer and less expensive to get to that do not have the violence.
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Stop it CB, just because you and I disagree doesn't mean I have failed to think about anything. Why do you insist on us not helping in a problem that we helped create?
 
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ludin said:
Then post the main source and leave the bias huffpo out of it and depending on who wrote it i might look at it.

as i said the only blame the US incurs is not enforcing our immigration laws. if we would have enforced our immigration laws then they would realize that coming here is useless.
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You don't know **** about US policy in Latin America.
 
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