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Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities[W:17:50]

Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

Threegoofs said:
You realize illegal immigrants don't particularly come here to get a high profile and risk being caught for fraud, right?

You realize that the system caught everyone enroll ing on the website but only 1/6 enroll ing by phone, and now that the weakness has been identified, it's unlikely to continue, right?

You realize people who generally try to commit fraud do so to make money, not to obtain a discounted product that, every time it's used, exposes that person to the risk of uncovering the fraud, right?

You realize the actual incidence of people who have fake insurance and have been proven to be defrauding the government in this way is roughly zero, right?
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Illegal aliens commit fraud all the time, including identity theft.

Link

They're even getting tax refunds for kids that don't even live here in the US with them...which is fraud.



So yeah, illegal aliens WILL most certainly commit fraud.
 
Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

sangha said:
No, you are mischaraterizing the law. It does not say that hospitals have to provide care to anyone that shows up.
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No, you are ignoring what is actually happening. Anyone that goes to the emergency room of a hospital will get provided health care. No matter the reason for going to the ER. A person can go to the ER for ANYTHING. No matter how trivial a matter. You can go there for a common mild cold and get health care, or even a small cut on a finger which a simple bandaid could take care of at home. Just because it is done in the ER does not mean it's not healthcare.

So yes, anyone that shows up at a hospital, a hospital has to help regardless of income, status, or anything else you can think of.
 
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Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

Now, there is another aspect to this which everyone seems to be ignoring just so they can score imagined points.

What is to stop an insurance company from sending in these false forms themselves? You know, mixed in with the real ones to make them seem legit. Or what is to stop someone from doing their homework, and pretending to own an insurance company and thereby getting the money sent to themselves? Or even pretending to be actual insurance people and getting real people to sign up with them and then one day disappearing with all the extra money they "earned" via not only those people but also from the government?
 
Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

Kal'Stang said:
No, you are ignoring what is actually happening. Anyone that goes to the emergency room of a hospital will get provided health care. No matter the reason for going to the ER. A person can go to the ER for ANYTHING. No matter how trivial a matter. You can go there for a common mild cold and get health care, or even a small cut on a finger which a simple bandaid could take care of at home. Just because it is done in the ER does not mean it's not healthcare.

So yes, anyone that shows up at a hospital, a hospital has to show up regardless of income, status, or anything else you can think of.
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Two things

1) It just not true that anyone will get care for anything at an ER. While many will do that, more and more ER and referring non-emergency cases to clinics and other providers where the person may or may not get treatment.

2) The care that ER's provide is not complete. Cancer patients who show up at an ER and can't pay will not get chemo or radiation therapy if they need it. Diabetics will not get insulin or meds.
 
Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

sangha said:
Two things

1) It just not true that anyone will get care for anything at an ER. While many will do that, more and more ER and referring non-emergency cases to clinics and other providers where the person may or may not get treatment.

2) The care that ER's provide is not complete. Cancer patients who show up at an ER and can't pay will not get chemo or radiation therapy if they need it. Diabetics will not get insulin or meds.
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Show proof of this.
 
Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

Kal'Stang said:
Now, there is another aspect to this which everyone seems to be ignoring just so they can score imagined points.

What is to stop an insurance company from sending in these false forms themselves? You know, mixed in with the real ones to make them seem legit. Or what is to stop someone from doing their homework, and pretending to own an insurance company and thereby getting the money sent to themselves? Or even pretending to be actual insurance people and getting real people to sign up with them and then one day disappearing with all the extra money they "earned" via not only those people but also from the government?
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What's to stop it?

I'm pretty sure the law, along with fines and jail time will help stop it.

Because that's what happens with fraud.

And, of course, the glaring fact that NO ONE gets subsidy money sent to them- it's insurers who get the checks. If you can figure out a way to impersonate an insurance company, you might as well impersonate a hedge fund and make billions....
 
Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

Kal'Stang said:
Show proof of this.
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It's basic healthcare knowledge.

I posted the law earlier- ERs provide only emergency treatment. Most medical care people need is not emergent in nature.
 
Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

Threegoofs said:
What's to stop it?

I'm pretty sure the law, along with fines and jail time will help stop it.

Because that's what happens with fraud.

And, of course, the glaring fact that NO ONE gets subsidy money sent to them- it's insurers who get the checks. If you can figure out a way to impersonate an insurance company, you might as well impersonate a hedge fund and make billions....
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Oh yes, just like laws have stopped murder, rape, theft, marijuana use, blue collar crimes etc etc.

How to stop it? E-verify could actually help with this also I think. Not sure but it could be a start.
 
Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

Threegoofs said:
It's basic healthcare knowledge.

I posted the law earlier- ERs provide only emergency treatment. Most medical care people need is not emergent in nature.
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Yet there isn't a single hospital in the country what won't treat someone with a common cold in the ER. Why won't they? Because it is the patient that says they have an emergency. Doctors don't get to make that determination.
 
Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

Kal'Stang said:
Oh yes, just like laws have stopped murder, rape, theft, marijuana use, blue collar crimes etc etc.

How to stop it? E-verify could actually help with this also I think. Not sure but it could be a start.
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Right. Fraud happens. We don't refuse to build highways because people might speed on them.
 
Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

Kal'Stang said:
Yet there isn't a single hospital in the country what won't treat someone with a common cold in the ER. Why won't they? Because it is the patient that says they have an emergency. Doctors don't get to make that determination.
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Yes. And the doc will see the patient, determine there is no emergency, recommend OTC treatment, and not follow up. That's acute care. But the underlying cause- say a leukemia- may not be diagnosed because colds don't get blood work.
 
Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

Kal'Stang said:
Oh yes, just like laws have stopped murder, rape, theft, marijuana use, blue collar crimes etc etc.

How to stop it? E-verify could actually help with this also I think. Not sure but it could be a start.
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So you think insurance companies are capable of engaging in widespread fraud

And you think they shouldn't be regulated? :screwy
 
Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

Kal'Stang said:
Yet there isn't a single hospital in the country what won't treat someone with a common cold in the ER. Why won't they? Because it is the patient that says they have an emergency. Doctors don't get to make that determination.
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Under EMTALA, it's doctors who make the determination
 
Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

sangha said:
So you think insurance companies are capable of engaging in widespread fraud
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Yes. And so is individual people acting like insurance companies.

sangha said:
And you think they shouldn't be regulated? :screwy
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Strawman much? I don't suppose you can show me where I said that? Didn't think so.
 
Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

Kal'Stang said:
Yes. And so is individual people acting like insurance companies.
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SO I guess they shouldn't be regulated either

Strawman much? I don't suppose you can show me where I said that? Didn't think so.
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It's been in many of your posts.

And since you don't like Media Matters, here's the WSJ. Why don't you tell us about how they're in on the conspiracy and making stuff up?

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2007/09/13/a-breast-cancer-death-tangled-in-bureaucracy/

Shirley Loewe died of breast cancer in June. In the four years after she was diagnosed, she was “denied assistance or care at least six times, for reasons that ranged from not being poor enough to not being sick enough,” the WSJ reports.
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