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Two Ukrainian Jets Shot Down, Defense Ministry Says

voyager1 said:
Hard to argue with that. I will say though that Americans are not universally loved around the world. People know what we do.
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Good news is, more and more Americans are beginning to accept that reality, perhaps in time that will have influence on our FP.
 
Blue_State said:
I have 0 wants to commit an American soldier to the Ukraine. It is far more a European interest than ours and they should be the ones to solve it. I don't approve of Putin's land grab. I don't believe any negotiation we could make will solve the issue with Russia. We may one day look back and equate the events in Ukraine to that of Archduke Ferdinand. I hope not, but Europe needs to lead. My $0.02 until I swayed otherwise which is possible, but I haven't been convinced that we need US boots on Ukrainian soil.
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No question. It is a European mess, caused by EU incompetence. The US is already too much involved and it is becoming an American problem thanks to the CIC with a Peace Prize.
 
TheNextEra said:
In case you haven't notice, there are dicators ALL OVER the world that do that. Iran, North Korea, Africa, etc.

So are you for the U.S. to be the world police for dictators ALL OVER the world, or are you just for blowing up brown people?
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Yes. I had noted that and studied why. One reason is that there has been no reason for them not to. And in Syria or Ukraine we are demonstrating that there is no reason now, even though the UN has adopted a norm in the mean time that says its members must prevent it.
 
Ockham said:
You're words ...



Choose your words more wisely next time.
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Exactly, I was asking you, YOU Ockham, if YOU found Kerry to be in contrast with Rice and Albright. Because of course, they aren't. Lets go back to the beginning. You claimed that John Kerry is nothing but a mouth piece for the president. My point is that every SoS is, so what's the damn point you really want to make???
 
joG said:
No question. It is a European mess, caused by EU incompetence. The US is already too much involved and it is becoming an American problem thanks to the CIC with a Peace Prize.
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We can support the Europeans...but I would rather not commit.
 
Montecresto said:
Exactly, I was asking you, YOU Ockham, if YOU found Kerry to be in contrast with Rice and Albright. Because of course, they aren't.
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Which I obviously did see a contrast and listed the items where I saw a contrast, then you drop a WTF claiming you said "compare". Apparently you forgot you said "contrast"? To repeat (because it bears repeating) choose your words more wisely in the future and try to remember or at least look back at what you already said.


Montecresto said:
Lets go back to the beginning. You claimed that John Kerry is nothing but a mouth piece for the president. My point is that every SoS is, so what's the damn point you really want to make???
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Let's skip going back to the beginning - do you or do you not have a point with your "contrast" request? If you don't, I prefer not to waste more time, as you cannot remember what the subject is or what you previously said an hour ago. If you have a point other than the obvious one which you've made now 3 times (what every "SoS" is...) please make it. Pretty please, with a cherry...
 
Blue_State said:
We can support the Europeans...but I would rather not commit.
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The problem is that the EU cannot handle it and the Europeans are trying desperately to make it out to their populations that it is an American problem and not their fault, responsibility or worth doing much more than ritual scolding.
 
Ockham said:
Which I obviously did see a contrast and listed the items where I saw a contrast, then you drop a WTF claiming you said "compare". Apparently you forgot you said "contrast"? To repeat (because it bears repeating) choose your words more wisely in the future and try to remember or at least look back at what you already said.


Let's skip going back to the beginning - do you or do you not have a point with your "contrast" request? If you don't, I prefer not to waste more time, as you cannot remember what the subject is or what you previously said an hour ago. If you have a point other than the obvious one which you've made now 3 times (what every "SoS" is...) please make it. Pretty please, with a cherry...
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Yes, you made a stupid statement about John Kerry, as though to paint him in contrast with all other SoS's. criticising a SoS for being the presidents mouth piece is like criticising mustard for being on a hot dog!!
 
Montecresto said:
Yes, you made a stupid statement about John Kerry, as though to paint him in contrast with all other SoS's. criticising a SoS for being the presidents mouth piece is like criticising mustard for being on a hot dog!!
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So stupid you agreed with it multiple times. You asked for a contrast and I gave it to you. Then you claimed it was "compare", and I pointed out your mistake, didn't want to discuss the contrast, and now you're continuing to point out your mistake over and over. I'm very happy to keep discussing your mistake instead of moving on.

Do you often mistake words and forget what you post? It's seems you do.
 
Ockham said:
So stupid you agreed with it multiple times. You asked for a contrast and I gave it to you. Then you claimed it was "compare", and I pointed out your mistake, didn't want to discuss the contrast, and now you're continuing to point out your mistake over and over. I'm very happy to keep discussing your mistake instead of moving on.

Do you often mistake words and forget what you post? It's seems you do.
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So now your going to say that your Kerry comment was a compliment!! Fascinating.
 
joG said:
The problem is that the EU cannot handle it and the Europeans are trying desperately to make it out to their populations that it is an American problem and not their fault, responsibility or worth doing much more than ritual scolding.
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It even appears that they aren't as concerned about it as they speak.
 
Ockham said:
So stupid you agreed with it multiple times. You asked for a contrast and I gave it to you. Then you claimed it was "compare", and I pointed out your mistake, didn't want to discuss the contrast, and now you're continuing to point out your mistake over and over. I'm very happy to keep discussing your mistake instead of moving on.

Do you often mistake words and forget what you post? It's seems you do.
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Here's the stupid comment you made about John Kerry sense you are trying to "move on"


From purely a political view, he very adequately tows the party line and is yet another Obama mouthpiece in the world. He's there to push Obama's world view and he does it very well. In other words, he's a useful puppet. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating what he does or this administrations view, just providing an analysis of what he does. Whether it is effective or not is a different matter.
 
Montecresto said:
So now your going to say that your Kerry comment was a compliment!! Fascinating.
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Is that what I'm going to say?

To get out of a hole the key is to stop digging. Now would be a good time for you to stop digging.
 
Montecresto said:
Here's the stupid comment you made about John Kerry sense you are trying to "move on"
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Use the quote tag buttons - they work better.

And what part of my statement was inaccurate that you would like to discuss... does he NOT tow the party line? Is not adequately pushing Obama's world view? Is he not useful? Dazzle me with your insight...
 
TheNextEra said:
In case you haven't notice, there are dicators ALL OVER the world that do that. Iran, North Korea, Africa, etc.

So are you for the U.S. to be the world police for dictators ALL OVER the world, or are you just for blowing up brown people?
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Good point, and its been US policy to prop up dictatorships and oppressive regimes when it would suit "US Interests" or facilitate "regime change" if that better suited. One things certain, humanitarian concerns have never been the driving factor, regardless of how often spoken.
 
Montecresto said:
It even appears that they aren't as concerned about it as they speak.
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If they can deflect blame, like the EU is so good at doing, then why should the politicians worry?
 
Ockham said:
Use the quote tag buttons - they work better.

And what part of my statement was inaccurate that you would like to discuss... does he NOT tow the party line? Is not adequately pushing Obama's world view? Is he not useful? Dazzle me with your insight...
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So you do need a fourth explanation. What you said about Kerry is accurate, but its accurate of every SoS. That's what an SoS does, so pointing it out in the derogatory manner that you did, just shows partisan bs, and it really is stupid.
 
joG said:
If they can deflect blame, like the EU is so good at doing, then why should the politicians worry?
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Well, Russia and the US is not exempt from having deflected blame. Last fall the State Department was working with Yat's to support a coup, and it didn't quite work out the way it was planed. It cost Crimea and could end up costing eastern Ukraine.
 
Montecresto said:
So you do need a fourth explanation. What you said about Kerry is accurate, but its accurate of every SoS. That's what an SoS does, so pointing it out in the derogatory manner that you did, just shows partisan bs, and it really is stupid.
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Explicitly what part was inaccurate? Point it out, then support it with logic or facts. :coffeepap:
 
Montecresto said:
Well, Russia and the US is not exempt from having deflected blame. Last fall the State Department was working with Yat's to support a coup, and it didn't quite work out the way it was planed. It cost Crimea and could end up costing eastern Ukraine.
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Yats? Coup?
 
joG said:
Yats? Coup?
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Yatsenyuk, remember him?


Washington's Man Yatsenyuk Setting Ukraine Up For Ruin

Ukraine’s interim prime minister, Arseniy “Yats” Yatsenyuk, may prove to be arsenic to the beleaguered nation.

“Recall the phone exchange between the Ukraine ambassador and Victoria Nuland (Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs) that got leaked out, where she basically said ‘we want Yats in there.’ They like him because he’s pro Western,” says Vladimir Signorelli, president of boutique investment research firm Bretton Woods Research LLC in New Jersey. “Yatsenyuk is the the kind of technocrat you want if you want austerity, with the veneer of professionalism,” Signorelli said. “He’s the type of guy who can hobnob with the European elite. A Mario Monti type: unelected and willing to do the IMFs bidding,” he said.

Washington's Man Yatsenyuk Setting Ukraine Up For Ruin - Forbes
 
Ockham said:
Explicitly what part was inaccurate? Point it out, then support it with logic or facts. :coffeepap:
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What's wrong with you dude? I didn't say inaccurate! Look here, just forget it, your stupid comment wasn't worth the time spent on it.
 
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