US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back deal

Montecresto · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Grant said:
Considering that wars, and terrorism, have been going on throughout recorded history, a subject apparently not taught in today's schools, it hard to believe that it just began when America happened along.

Well then, IF that's what you believe, you need to go back to school. Instead of remaining ignorant, why don't you read the Cato paper, educate yourself and get on the right side of this, and in so doing you too can become a part of the solution. Or just keep posting sarcasm.

Grant · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

poweRob said:
Fund and militarize a theocratic Jewish nation to preemptively attack a theocratic Muslim nation. This is exactly what you are proposing.

Israel is not a theocracy. You've been misinformed.

Grant · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Montecresto said:
Well then, IF that's what you believe, you need to go back to school. Instead of remaining ignorant, why don't you read the Cato paper, educate yourself and get on the right side of this, and in so doing you too can become a part of the solution. Or just keep posting sarcasm.

You believe that wars, and terrorism, haven't been going on throughout history?

Hamster Buddha · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Grant said:
There is no oil protection.

The US has lost in the Middle East, refused the Canadian pipeline, halted exploration on government lands, outlawed coal, and siphoned off money to political cronies for solar power and wind power disasters.

China and Russia are building a canal across Nicaragua and will use Venezuelan oil, and will undoubtedly move into Mexico as well. Everyone is getting organized except the United States.

China to Build $6 Billion Venezuelan Oil Refinery Project in Nicaragua | Tropical Daily

I'm not talking about today... I'm talking about during the first Gulf War. The Saudis asked the US to assist them in defending against the possibility of further aggression from Saddam. This is the incident which made an enemy of Bin Laden and his ilk.

Grant · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Hamster Buddha said:
I'm not talking about today... I'm talking about during the first Gulf War. The Saudis asked the US to assist them in defending against the possibility of further aggression from Saddam. This is the incident which made an enemy of Bin Laden and his ilk.

Bin Ladin was a private citizen and no government policy will satisfy everyone. There are many terrorist groups throughout the world and no country, including the United States, can adapt their foreign policy to satisfy all of them.

The United States is now allowing terrorists in the Middle East to flourish, and through deliberate design. That was not the case in previous administrations.

Hamster Buddha · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Grant said:
Bin Ladin was a private citizen and no government policy will satisfy everyone. There are many terrorist groups throughout the world and no country, including the United States, can adapt their foreign policy to satisfy all of them.

The United States is now allowing terrorists in the Middle East to flourish, and through deliberate design. That was not the case in previous administrations.

The truth of the matter is, that the primary reason that Bin Laden attacked us on 9/11, was because of our involvement in the ME. Some could argue that even if we hadn't gotten involved in the first Gulf War, we would of been dragged into a situation there one way or another, and perhaps that's true. But that is a hypothetical; what is fact is that Bin Laden declared war on the US because of our involvement in the first Gulf War.

Your second point does hold some weight, but that's only if ISIS is a threat to the US, and I don't think that has been established. For one, all their resources are currently caught up in waging a war on three sides (and possibly a forth if and when Iranians get involved). I'm not exactly sure how intelligent the leaders of ISIS are, but I doubt there going to provoke an attack from the US at a time like this.

Montecresto · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Grant said:
You believe that wars, and terrorism, haven't been going on throughout history?

When did anything in any of my posts inform you of such. Cato's paper that you're fearful to read addresses the fact that US interference in the ME is fuelling extremists, and breeding terrorism. It's almost embarrassing to have to point out the obvious.

Grant · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Hamster Buddha said:
The truth of the matter is, that the primary reason that Bin Laden attacked us on 9/11, was because of our involvement in the ME. Some could argue that even if we hadn't gotten involved in the first Gulf War, we would of been dragged into a situation there one way or another, and perhaps that's true. But that is a hypothetical; what is fact is that Bin Laden declared war on the US because of our involvement in the first Gulf War

. And if not that then he may have attacked for some other reason.We see many Islamists now spreading terrorism throughout the world, not just in the Middle East, and this is no fault of the Americans, though they are often quick to accept responsibility and blame themselves.

Your second point does hold some weight, but that's only if ISIS is a threat to the US, and I don't think that has been established.

They have threatened the US, have been beheading hundreds of people and are moving towards Baghdad. The Iraqi government has been begging for help since last August and Obama has refused, fearing it would look as though his decision to leave Iraq was the wrong one, which it certainly was.

For one, all their resources are currently caught up in waging a war on three sides (and possibly a forth if and when Iranians get involved). I'm not exactly sure how intelligent the leaders of ISIS are, but I doubt there going to provoke an attack from the US at a time like this.

No one is worried about the US. Not the Islamists, Russians, Chinese, Iranians, North Koreans, Pakistanis or anyone else you can name.

Grant · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Montecresto said:
When did anything in any of my posts inform you of such. Cato's paper that you're fearful to read addresses the fact that US interference in the ME is fuelling extremists, and breeding terrorism. It's almost embarrassing to have to point out the obvious.

CATO is wrong. The fact that there is Islamic terrorism throughout the world, and that it began well before Desert Storm, should demonstrate this.

Hamster Buddha · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Grant said:
And if not that then he may have attacked for some other reason.We see many Islamists now spreading terrorism throughout the world, not just in the Middle East, and this is no fault of the Americans, though they are often quick to accept responsibility and blame themselves.

But it all stems from the same issue, perceived US entanglement in the ME. And while it is true there are numerous causes for the scourge of radical Islam, we're not really talking about why those countries are affected.

Grant said:
They have threatened the US, have been beheading hundreds of people and are moving towards Baghdad. The Iraqi government has been begging for help since last August and Obama has refused, fearing it would look as though his decision to leave Iraq was the wrong one, which it certainly was.

There's a difference between rhetoric though and the capacity to do so. IF ISIS were to survive, then it is true they would be a threat to the US. However, I don't think they'll survive the conflict they find themselves in.

Grant said:
No one is worried about the US. Not the Islamists, Russians, Chinese, Iranians, North Koreans, Pakistanis or anyone else you can name.

I guess that depends on how you define "worried". No one is going to outright attack American interest, because they know they would get hit back decisively. However, as long as they don't directly involve us, then it is true that their not worried about us getting involved.

Hamster Buddha · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Montecresto said:
When did anything in any of my posts inform you of such. Cato's paper that you're fearful to read addresses the fact that US interference in the ME is fuelling extremists, and breeding terrorism. It's almost embarrassing to have to point out the obvious.

I doubt that that even if we were to withdraw completely from the ME, our problems with radical Islam would go away.

Grant · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Hamster Buddha said:
But it all stems from the same issue, perceived US entanglement in the ME. And while it is true there are numerous causes for the scourge of radical Islam, we're not really talking about why those countries are affected.

How can any country deal with 'perceptions'? The fact is that the Middle East is not the most sophisticated area of the world and their 'perceptions' are not about to be changed by anything the west can say or do. These countries don't often agree with each other and feuds have been going on for centuries. There is no way to satisfy all of them.

There's a difference between rhetoric though and the capacity to do so. IF ISIS were to survive, then it is true they would be a threat to the US. However, I don't think they'll survive the conflict they find themselves in.

Or they may be doing the dirty work for Iran. They appear to be growing in strength.

I guess that depends on how you define "worried". No one is going to outright attack American interest, because they know they would get hit back decisively. However, as long as they don't directly involve us, then it is true that their not worried about us getting involved.

I doubt they are fearful of the US, given the defeats in Iraq and Afghanistan. They know about Obama and the American people wanting to withdraw from world affairs. This is the perfect time for others to exploit weaknesses wherever they find them in order to further their own ends. We'll be watching huge power shifts going on.

Hamster Buddha · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Grant said:
Or they may be doing the dirty work for Iran. They appear to be growing in strength.

By attacking Iraq, which is an ally of Iran? I'm not sure you're up to date on the politics of the region...

Grant said:
I doubt they are fearful of the US, given the defeats in Iraq and Afghanistan. They know about Obama and the American people wanting to withdraw from world affairs. This is the perfect time for others to exploit weaknesses wherever they find them in order to further their own ends. We'll be watching huge power shifts going on.

Many never thought we'd get ourselves involved in WW2... until someone had the balls to attack us.

Montecresto · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Hamster Buddha said:
I doubt that that even if we were to withdraw completely from the ME, our problems with radical Islam would go away.

Well no **** Sherlock. With decades of support it will take quite a lot to get a lid on this. At any rate, that comment didn't address what you quoted. CATO produced a very good paper documenting decades of US policy that is BREEDING terrorism. Continue to deny that until these people suffocate you!

Hamster Buddha · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Montecresto said:
Well no **** Sherlock. With decades of support it will take quite a lot to get a lid on this. At any rate, that comment didn't address what you quoted. CATO produced a very good paper documenting decades of US policy that is BREEDING terrorism. Continue to deny that until these people suffocate you!

The thing is, before the first gulf war, the terrorism issue was largely relegated to the Middle East. Iran had an uprising, but they've never attacked us. I don't recall Lebanon ever launching attacks on US interest outside of the Middle East. It wasn't until Bin Laden that terrorism was an international threat.

Grant · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Hamster Buddha said:
By attacking Iraq, which is an ally of Iran? I'm not sure you're up to date on the politics of the region...

I'm not convinced Iran is an ally of Iraq. Apart from the earlier war they had with Iraq, they would dearly love the oil Iraq produces. Just because the Coalition has left doesn't mean it's still not 'All About Oil'.

Many never thought we'd get ourselves involved in WW2... until someone had the balls to attack us.

It was a different generation with different values. I doubt the military has much confidence in this president either.

Montecresto · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Hamster Buddha said:
The thing is, before the first gulf war, the terrorism issue was largely relegated to the Middle East. Iran had an uprising, but they've never attacked us. I don't recall Lebanon ever launching attacks on US interest outside of the Middle East. It wasn't until Bin Laden that terrorism was an international threat.

Oh yeah, that old CIA asset.

Hamster Buddha · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Grant said:
I'm not convinced Iran is an ally of Iraq. Apart from the earlier war they had with Iraq, they would dearly love the oil Iraq produces. Just because the Coalition has left doesn't mean it's still not 'All About Oil'.
It was a different generation with different values. I doubt the military has much confidence in this president either.

You know where Maliki hid for all those years? Iran. Trust me, their allies.

And it doesn't matter what generation you're in; if we are attacked, you better believe there will be a response.

Hamster Buddha · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Montecresto said:
Oh yeah, that old CIA asset.

Your point?

Montecresto · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

I don't think we Americans are going to like the blow back we're going to see from our decades of supporting extremist, militant Islamists. Many analysts predict 9/11, was small by comparison. Forbes has a paper on this as well. Hopefully, we get the morons out of our foreign policy, and some sound minded individuals in.

Hamster Buddha · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Montecresto said:
I don't think we Americans are going to like the blow back we're going to see from our decades of supporting extremist, militant Islamists. Many analysts predict 9/11, was small by comparison. Forbes has a paper on this as well. Hopefully, we get the morons out of our foreign policy, and some sound minded individuals in.

Even if we did, as you've already said, it wouldn't make any difference at this point.

Montecresto · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Hamster Buddha said:
Your point?

Decades of support of militant Islamists. Is this going to run over you before you recognise it?

Montecresto · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Hamster Buddha said:
Even if we did, as you've already said, it wouldn't make any difference at this point.

However, its never too late to start doing the right thing!!

Hamster Buddha · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Montecresto said:
Decades of support of militant Islamists. Is this going to run over you before you recognise it?

The enemy of enemy...

Montecresto · Jul 24, 2014

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Hamster Buddha said:
The enemy of enemy...

Sure, see post 170.