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GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information...[W:220, 325]

Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

The Washington Post clearly states what others in this forum have been saying, deflating those that call the published emails as 'nothing' and who are not standing on solid ground with this position.
In a stunning revelation this week, it was disclosed that former IRS official Lois Lerner told colleagues, “we need to be cautious about what we say in emails” and then proceeded to ask the IRS IT department, in an e-mail, “if [instant messaging] conversations were also searchable.” When she was told they were not, she e-mailed back, “Perfect.” This is a smoking gun e-mail in that it makes plain she had a cover-up in mind. There is no other plausible explanation.
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The Insiders: More IRS smidgens show up. ‘Perfect.’ - The Washington Post

Others have correctly observed that of all the government agencies and departments, the IRS has to be as impartial and nonpartisan as is possible, by the very nature of it's function.

Perhaps it should only be staffed by sworn independent voters with a demonstrated history of the same?
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

Mithros said:
She appeared before a senate committee months before. There was considerable talk on the hill before that wanting to investigate the IRS on their lax enforcement of the ban political groups posing as 501c4's. It doesn't take a genius. It's funny to see you guys bend over backwards to put things in the worst possible light while ignoring the obvious.

Don't you think Lerner would have realized when she was writing that email that it could also be made public? It's like the right wingers live in a universe where everyone they disagree with is Dr. Evil..One part evil genius, one part bumbling fool.
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Or we could take the view that most liberals aren't the brightest bulbs on the planet or they wouldn't be liberals. See how easy it is to demonize something instead of using critical thinking to analyze it?

Lois Lerner was operating in an environment controlled and directed by the most liberal administration this nation has ever seen, the most intrusive, the most authoritarian, and the most proactive in attacking and going after enemies of the 'cause'. She is probably pretty angry that Obama and his staff did not protect her from having to testify before the House committee, but, almost certainly in an effort to remove her from public scrutiny, they put her on administrative leave at full salary of $177,000 plus generous federal benefits. Eventually, many months later, they had her step down with full retirement ($102,600) and benefits of course. If she and/or her husband live a normal life span, she will collect well over $3 million dollars in taxpayer benefits as a retiree.

And this after taking the Fifth rather than doing her job and explaining to Congress and the American people what happened within a government agency.
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

AlbqOwl said:
Or we could take the view that most liberals aren't the brightest bulbs on the planet or they wouldn't be liberals. See how easy it is to demonize something instead of using critical thinking to analyze it?

Lois Lerner was operating in an environment controlled and directed by the most liberal administration this nation has ever seen, the most intrusive, the most authoritarian, and the most proactive in attacking and going after enemies of the 'cause'. She is probably pretty angry that Obama and his staff did not protect her from having to testify before the House committee, but, almost certainly in an effort to remove her from public scrutiny, they put her on administrative leave at full salary of $177,000 plus generous federal benefits. Eventually, many months later, they had her step down with full retirement ($102,600) and benefits of course. If she and/or her husband live a normal life span, she will collect well over $3 million dollars in taxpayer benefits as a retiree.

And this after taking the Fifth rather than doing her job and explaining to Congress and the American people what happened within a government agency.
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You claim critical thinking skills and then call this administration the most liberal, intrusive, authoritarian, and proactive. You seem to be confusing the idea of criticizing with critical thought. I know they sound the same, but stringing together a sequence of insults isn't critical thinking.

It's probably a good idea to practice critical thinking before writing about it. So here's a start. Lerner was appointed by Reagan. Then she became head of the tax exempt division in 2006 under appointment from Bush. Anyone who's ever worked with her has called her largely apolitical, plodding, and meticulous about following the rules. Did Obama orchestrate this supposed conspiracy back in 1981? Would any rational person think that delaying the application of groups trying to annonomize political donations would somehow steal an election? Especially considering that none of the groups actually even had to go through the application process?

Critical thinking says that this entire conspiracy theory is laughably absurd.
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

Mithros said:
You claim critical thinking skills and then call this administration the most liberal, intrusive, authoritarian, and proactive. You seem to be confusing the idea of criticizing with critical thought. I know they sound the same, but stringing together a sequence of insults isn't critical thinking.

It's probably a good idea to practice critical thinking before writing about it. So here's a start. Lerner was appointed by Reagan. Then she became head of the tax exempt division in 2006 under appointment from Bush. Anyone who's ever worked with her has called her largely apolitical, plodding, and meticulous about following the rules. Did Obama orchestrate this supposed conspiracy back in 1981? Would any rational person think that delaying the application of groups trying to annonomize political donations would somehow steal an election? Especially considering that none of the groups actually even had to go through the application process?

Critical thinking says that this entire conspiracy theory is laughably absurd.
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Huh? Lerner was appointed by Reagan as what?
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

jamesrage said:
I look forward to that.I hope that when a conservative is president he uses his pen to strip planned parenthood of the funding it gets from the government.
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Yes then we can all ignore it and say this is just a phony scandal.
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

Mithros said:
You claim critical thinking skills and then call this administration the most liberal, intrusive, authoritarian, and proactive. You seem to be confusing the idea of criticizing with critical thought. I know they sound the same, but stringing together a sequence of insults isn't critical thinking.

It's probably a good idea to practice critical thinking before writing about it. So here's a start. Lerner was appointed by Reagan. Then she became head of the tax exempt division in 2006 under appointment from Bush. Anyone who's ever worked with her has called her largely apolitical, plodding, and meticulous about following the rules. Did Obama orchestrate this supposed conspiracy back in 1981? Would any rational person think that delaying the application of groups trying to annonomize political donations would somehow steal an election? Especially considering that none of the groups actually even had to go through the application process?

Critical thinking says that this entire conspiracy theory is laughably absurd.
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Noting your opinion.
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

Mithros said:
You claim critical thinking skills and then call this administration the most liberal, intrusive, authoritarian, and proactive. You seem to be confusing the idea of criticizing with critical thought. I know they sound the same, but stringing together a sequence of insults isn't critical thinking.

It's probably a good idea to practice critical thinking before writing about it. So here's a start. Lerner was appointed by Reagan. Then she became head of the tax exempt division in 2006 under appointment from Bush. Anyone who's ever worked with her has called her largely apolitical, plodding, and meticulous about following the rules. Did Obama orchestrate this supposed conspiracy back in 1981? Would any rational person think that delaying the application of groups trying to annonomize political donations would somehow steal an election? Especially considering that none of the groups actually even had to go through the application process?

Critical thinking says that this entire conspiracy theory is laughably absurd.
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Your post is abusrd and full of misinformation.

Lerner was not appointed by Reagan. She was appointed by Bush in 2001 as Director Rulings and Agreements in the Exempt Organizations function of TEGE. in 2006 she became Director Exempt Organizations.

Reagan? did you just pull that one out of your ass?
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

Mithros said:
You claim critical thinking skills and then call this administration the most liberal, intrusive, authoritarian, and proactive. You seem to be confusing the idea of criticizing with critical thought. I know they sound the same, but stringing together a sequence of insults isn't critical thinking.

It's probably a good idea to practice critical thinking before writing about it. So here's a start. Lerner was appointed by Reagan. Then she became head of the tax exempt division in 2006 under appointment from Bush. Anyone who's ever worked with her has called her largely apolitical, plodding, and meticulous about following the rules. Did Obama orchestrate this supposed conspiracy back in 1981? Would any rational person think that delaying the application of groups trying to annonomize political donations would somehow steal an election? Especially considering that none of the groups actually even had to go through the application process?

Critical thinking says that this entire conspiracy theory is laughably absurd.
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That's called making up ****. Can you please provide citations which identify your claims:

* Reagan appointed Lerner to anything
* Bush appointed Lerner to her position as Director of Exempt Organizations


You need to stop reading left wing loon blogs. I'll happily await your citations or your recantation.... either one will do.
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

DB20 said:
Your post is abusrd and full of misinformation.

Lerner was not appointed by Reagan. She was appointed by Bush in 2001 as Director Rulings and Agreements in the Exempt Organizations function of TEGE. in 2006 she became Director Exempt Organizations.

Reagan? did you just pull that one out of your ass?
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Associate general counsel and head of the enforcement office at the FEC, which she joined in 1986. I do believe Reagan was president then.
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

tres borrachos said:
Huh? Lerner was appointed by Reagan as what?
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She got into government in the Carter administration as a government attorney and served in government throughout the Reagan and Bush 41 administrations. In 2001 she moved to the Federal Elections Commission in a capacity that Bush 43 most likely would not have appointed himself but does require bipartisan representation. In 2006 she was appointed Director of the IRS tax-exempt section--that isn't the official name of it but that's what it does. The appointment would have been made by the then director of the IRS. But in whatever capacity she has served over the years, there is no doubt about it that her role in IRS in this scandal does smell to high heaven.
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

AlbqOwl said:
She got into government in the Carter administration as a government attorney and served in government throughout the Reagan administration. In 2001 she moved to the Federal Elections Commission in a capacity that Bush most likely would not have appointed himself but does require bipartisan representation. In 2006 she was appointed to the IRS tax-exempt section--that isn't the official name of it but that's what it does. But in whatever capacity she has served over the years, there is no doubt about it that her role in IRS in this scandal does smell to high heaven.
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She was "selected" not appointed in 2006. Perhaps a slight difference but a difference none the less. Bottom line is neither Reagan nor Bush appointed Lerner to anything.
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

Mithros said:
Associate general counsel and head of the enforcement office at the FEC, which she joined in 1986. I do believe Reagan was president then.
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Which is relevant to the IRS story...how? She is a lifelong government employee.
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

Ockham said:
She was "selected" not appointed in 2006. Perhaps a slight difference but a difference none the less. Bottom line is neither Reagan nor Bush appointed Lerner to anything.
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Not to mention, it all has no relevance to the IRS story.
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

tres borrachos said:
Which is relevant to the IRS story...how? She is a lifelong government employee.
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The President appoints the executive directors or reasonable facsimiles of the various agencies. Those directors then appoint or hire those who serve under them and the President may be advised that so and so is doing such and such, but he does not even have to approve those. Lerner has not been the executive director of any agency so it is unlikely that any president ever appointed her to anything or even approved her appointment. As a federal employee, she would have to do something extremely extreme in order to get fired.

So why would a career federal employee get embroiled in the current scandal and controversy. You can be pretty darn sure it wasn't all her idea, but her marching orders came from higher up. Maybe from the top?
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

Ockham said:
She was "selected" not appointed in 2006. Perhaps a slight difference but a difference none the less. Bottom line is neither Reagan nor Bush appointed Lerner to anything.
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Riiighhhhtt.... So let me get this straight. If someone is hired by the government when a republican is in office then they were "selected". If that same person holds the same position when a democrat takes office, then they're a political hack job. Either she was in a low level position that's apolitical or she was a political appointee by at least Bush. You can't maintain on one hand that her position was too unimportant for the Bush Administration to care about and then also maintain suddenly that when Obama takes office she becomes a secret Democratic conduit to evilness..
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

Mithros said:
Riiighhhhtt.... So let me get this straight. If someone is hired by the government when a republican is in office then they were "selected". If that same person holds the same position when a democrat takes office, then they're a political hack job. Either she was in a low level position that's apolitical or she was a political appointee by at least Bush. You can't maintain on one hand that her position was too unimportant for the Bush Administration to care about and then also maintain suddenly that when Obama takes office she becomes a secret Democratic conduit to evilness..
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No, it's what the IRS said... right here... from the IRS's own website.

IRS.gov said:
WASHINGTON — Lois G. Lerner has been selected as the director of the Exempt Organizations Division of the Internal Revenue Service.
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Lois G. Lerner Selected as Director of IRS Exempt Organizations Division

:lamo
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

Ockham said:
She was "selected" not appointed in 2006. Perhaps a slight difference but a difference none the less. Bottom line is neither Reagan nor Bush appointed Lerner to anything.
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True. Nor did any other President from the Carter administration to the present as she has been a career federal employee the entire time. But since she got her first government job as an attorney and has served most of the time in that capacity, she no doubt knows how to dodge various land mines and work through various irregularities. So, as she was already in a role in which she could do it, she could easily have been a likely choice of the Obama administration to do a bit of manipulation to make sure his primary critics were kept silent through the last election cycles. Does anybody doubt that his administration is capable of using the IRS for whatever purposes they might find politically expedient?

The Administration sure doesn't seem to be doing anything to bring everything into the light and put it to rest, do they?
 
MrVicchio said:
More "no real scandal here".... right guys?
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There was unethical - and possibly criminal - misconduct on her part...and yes, it should certainly be investigated to the fullest extent. However, comma, the continuing attempts by the Right to find some connection, any connection at all, between Lerner - a regional supervisor with no real influence on or direct contact with the top levels of the IRS (much less the White House) of which I'm aware - smacks of desperation. Just because one relatively low-level person does something wrong doesn't mean that the president must have been involved.
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

Mithros said:
Riiighhhhtt.... So let me get this straight. If someone is hired by the government when a republican is in office then they were "selected". If that same person holds the same position when a democrat takes office, then they're a political hack job. Either she was in a low level position that's apolitical or she was a political appointee by at least Bush. You can't maintain on one hand that her position was too unimportant for the Bush Administration to care about and then also maintain suddenly that when Obama takes office she becomes a secret Democratic conduit to evilness..
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What are you trying to imply?
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

tres borrachos said:
She was never appointed by Bush or Reagan for anything.

But that still doesn't explain where the poster is going with all of this....
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The poster was trying to imply this was all Bush's fault or Reagans fault - hence the Genesis of this entire affair was because of Republicans - which I just squashed like a bug.
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

Ockham said:
No, it's what the IRS said... right here... from the IRS's own website.



Lois G. Lerner Selected as Director of IRS Exempt Organizations Division

:lamo
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It's pretty obvious that we're holding two incompatible ideas here: that Lerner and her department are inherently political positions under Obama, but were only plodding government employees under Bush. But instead of acknowledging a mistake and moving forward, you invent a new label with an imaginary distinction. Lerner was SELECTED, not appointed therefore she has nothing to do with Bush and must be an Obama retroactive spy. Want proof, I found an article that says SELECTED, therefore obviously Bush had nothing to do with it.

So if I find an article that says someone was selected that means what? McCain selects Palin as his running mate.... Oh selected, no politics there. Kerry selected to succeed Clinton as Sec State. Oh, SELECTED.. ..

Sigh....
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

tres borrachos said:
Huh? Lerner was appointed by Reagan as what?
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According to liberal revisionist history, yes. I cannot find any official government files on her during these years.

According to blogs and other resources of unknown integrity, she was appointed to an FEC position in 1981 or 1986. I saw two different years. There was no senate confirmation vote, so it wasn't a key position. She was probably part of some package agreement the democrats insisted on. Same under Bush (43). They say she was appointed to the IRS then, but not necessarily by Bush's request.
 
Re: GOP: Lerner warned IRS employees to hide information from Congress

Mithros said:
It's pretty obvious that we're holding two incompatible ideas here: that Lerner and her department are inherently political positions under Obama, but were only plodding government employees under Bush.
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You're the only person attempting to make that distinction, and you're failing miserably.

Mithros said:
But instead of acknowledging it and moving forward, you invent a new label with an imaginary distinction. Lerner was SELECTED, not appointed therefore she has nothing to do with Bush and must be an Obama retroactive spy. Want proof, I found an article that says SELECTED, therefore obviously Bush had nothing to do with it.
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First, I invented nothing. Second, the IRS described how she was "selected". Third, where is the proof of a Bush appointment? Oh yeah - there isn't any. Fourth - I didn't provide an article, I provided the IRS's official notification. You couldn't be more dishonest in your post if you tried - and I do believe you've tried.... very hard.

Mithros said:
So if I find an article that says someone was selected that means what? McCain selects Palin as his running mate.... Oh selected, no politics there. Kerry selected to succeed Clinton as Sec State. Oh, SELECTED.. ..
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Well, since McCain wasn't in a position to APPOINT anyone as his running mate, yes he selected.


Mithros said:
Sigh....
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First rule of holes - if you find yourself in one stop digging. This is a good time to stop digging. Tend to your wounds a live to try another day.
 
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