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Indiana won't recognize same-sex marriages

MaggieD said:
Not the same thing at all. The others you list are conditional licenses. "As long as you adhere to XYZ . . . " Aside for a smart-aleck comment, what would you do if you suddenly received a letter re your own marriage: "Your marriage is hereby declared null and void."
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Maggie, if a clerk illegally or wrongfully issues you a license of any kind, the issuing state can and will invalidate that license when it is discovered.
 
Navy Pride said:
Maggie what can you do if that happens?
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You can get re-married, but not without cost. Until one would remarry their spouse, they would be vulnerable to all sorts of unpleasant legal ramifications, especially if one of the spouses passed away.

Gay people who got married relying on the new state law suddenly NOW find themselves NOT married and unable to GET married. Changes could have been made with assets, etc. that are expensive to unwind.
 
clownboy said:
Maggie, if a clerk illegally or wrongfully issues you a license of any kind, the issuing state can and will invalidate that license when it is discovered.
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But, in this case, it wasn't wrongfully issued. I don't have a dog in the fight, but I consider it an injustice.
 
MaggieD said:
You can get re-married, but not without cost. Until one would remarry their spouse, they would be vulnerable to all sorts of unpleasant legal ramifications, especially if one of the spouses passed away.

Gay people who got married relying on the new state law suddenly NOW find themselves NOT married and unable to GET married. Changes could have been made with assets, etc. that are expensive to unwind.
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It wasn't because of a new state law, but a wonderful bit of judicial activism.
 
MaggieD said:
But, in this case, it wasn't wrongfully issued. I don't have a dog in the fight, but I consider it an injustice.
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The chief executive officer of the state says it was.
 
clownboy said:
The chief executive officer of the state says it was.
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A Federal court said it wasn't, though. Possibly that's a bit above his pay grade? This isn't just three licenses -- this is hundreds. *shrug*
 
MaggieD said:
A Federal court said it wasn't, though. Possibly that's a bit above his pay grade? This isn't just three licenses -- this is hundreds. *shrug*
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No, actually precisely his job. To enforce the laws made by the people of his state. We know where the founders and framers fell on this issue (negation of the will of the people by judicial activism), they sided with the state's chief executive. That's why Marbury never took his SOS seat despite the SCOTUS decision saying it was his. Jefferson reminded the court that he had a standing army at his disposal. Madison told them to go suck a lemon and took the chair.
 
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CanadaJohn said:
Various American ideological, theological, jurisdictional and just plain obstinate opposition to same sex marriage is really boring.

Either open up marriage to anyone who wants to get married or remove government from the licensing process.

There are a gayzillian other far more important issues to deal with. I don't understand the obsession.
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America has a large number of conservatives who are really, really obsessed with what two dudes they've never met might be doing in their bedrooms.
 
clownboy said:
Maggie, if a clerk illegally or wrongfully issues you a license of any kind, the issuing state can and will invalidate that license when it is discovered.
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It wasn't illegally issued. Same-sex marriage was legal at the time.
 
Deuce said:
America has a large number of conservatives who are really, really obsessed with what two dudes they've never met might be doing in their bedrooms.
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You fool yourself if you think there aren't also a large number of religious liberals who are also, more silently, really, really obsessed with what two dudes or two gals they've never met might be doing in their bedrooms.
 
CanadaJohn said:
You fool yourself if you think there aren't also a large number of religious liberals who are also, more silently, really, really obsessed with what two dudes or two gals they've never met might be doing in their bedrooms.
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Clearly less than the so-called conservatives.
 
Deuce said:
Clearly less than the so-called conservatives.
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Religious conservatives, yes - but not my kind of conservative. My kind of conservative wants the government to stay out of my wallet and out of my bedroom. It's why liberals are so irritating sometimes - they claim to want to live their personal lives without interference, but then they're always pushing for government to fund and be legislatively involved in people's personal lives.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Religious conservatives, yes - but not my kind of conservative. My kind of conservative wants the government to stay out of my wallet and out of my bedroom. It's why liberals are so irritating sometimes - they claim to want to live their personal lives without interference, but then they're always pushing for government to fund and be legislatively involved in people's personal lives.
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Uhh, which part of my personal life is being funded by the government?
 
CanadaJohn said:
Are you married?

Do you have a mortgage?

Do you have children?

Do I need to go on?
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Ahh, so a conservative who believes that tax credits do count as "being funded."

Usually conservatives are claiming tax cuts don't count because it's just the government taking less of your money.

Now, if I have to explain the difference between the government supporting your personal life via subsidy and government banning you from a certain choice, well, I don't know what to tell you.
 
Deuce said:
Ahh, so a conservative who believes that tax credits do count as "being funded."

Usually conservatives are claiming tax cuts don't count because it's just the government taking less of your money.

Now, if I have to explain the difference between the government supporting your personal life via subsidy and government banning you from a certain choice, well, I don't know what to tell you.
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This conservative understands that there's a difference between tax cuts, tax rates, and tax credits/deductions. Most conservatives I know believe that taxes should be as low as possible and only fund what government was established to do and what only government can do. Liberals, on the other hand, believe that taxes should be as high as possible so that government can interfere in the daily lives of citizens, can pick winners and losers, can bribe citizens with their own money for their votes, and can fund their pet projects and cronies through kickbacks.
 
Sababa said:
Well you don't understand what the license is for then. The marriage license is a license to marry which means it allows you to have a ceremony and by signing it the celebrant of the wedding endorses the marriage as an officer of the state. Once filed the marriage is legal. No the state can say they don't recognize it but that might mean another trip to the courts where they will tell them they must recognize it.

Your license to marry is a time limited document it isn't the wedding.
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I made my previous post while already knowing everything you just said.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Liberals, on the other hand,
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Listen, I'm going to stop you right there before you make yourself look stupid. You should ponder why it is you're using the Rush Limbaugh idea of what liberals think. I suppose I should use the Michael Moore version of what conservatives think, right?
 
Deuce said:
Listen, I'm going to stop you right there before you make yourself look stupid. You should ponder why it is you're using the Rush Limbaugh idea of what liberals think. I suppose I should use the Michael Moore version of what conservatives think, right?
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Listen, I'm going to stop you right there before you make yourself look stupid by explicitly or implicitly claiming that I can't think for myself. It may work with your American friends, but this Canadian doesn't need Rush Limbaugh or anyone else to express an educated view of the world, politics, and government.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Listen, I'm going to stop you right there before you make yourself look stupid by explicitly or implicitly claiming that I can't think for myself. It may work with your American friends, but this Canadian doesn't need Rush Limbaugh or anyone else to express an educated view of the world, politics, and government.
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Yeah, well, that's not what you did. Instead, you chose to regurgitate the standard partisan hack hyperbole.
 
Navy Pride said:
That is not how it works, right or wrong the people that performed the marriages jumped the gun Maggie.
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Not necessarily. Because the state will not provide state benefits or allow joint tax returns in no way invalidates the marriages...it only puts the a fore mentioned state actions on hold.

The marriages exist...the State of Indiana can not make the marriages not exist during the court ordered stay.
 
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