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Driver records CHP officer punching woman[W:195]

Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

Buddha C said:
What? Do you mean most are good? In my own personal Latino experience most of em are pieces of ****. Are you white per chance or have some statistic? Just wondering, personal experience can be misleading.
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I used to train police officers in "continuance of force techniques" (which ironically would have applied here). These techniques allow an officer to start with minimal force and still take control of a subject, all without beating people in the face.

Based on the officers I trained I'd say the problem is simple. It's the culture of most departments and the complete lack of discipline. You can't mix enormous amounts of authority with a lack in self discipline. It's a recipe for exactly what the OP shows.

The above being a perfect example...

If I'm ever a cop I'll just taze the bitch and save myself the hassle.
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When training police I used to see this attitude all the time....Anyone with this attitude should be prevented from being a police officer as it shows a complete lack of empathy and mental self discipline.

Having said that....

Underneath, most officers are generally good people, they just don't know how to handle their emotions. When in situations like this they loose control and the OP is the result.

Am I letting the officer off the hook, NO WAY....I'm just saying that most people would fail in these situations because few people are trained to deal with the emotional stress that comes with being a police officer. Ultimately I blame the system and culture that has moved away from "protect and serve" the public and has increasingly militarized with the justification of protecting itself.

Generally I would disagree that most officers are bad, but I think the way we police the public needs to change fundamentally.
 
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Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

csbrown28 said:
I used to train police officers in "continuance of force techniques" (which ironically would have applied here). These techniques allow an officer to start with minimal force and still take control of a subject, all without beating people in the face.

Based on the officers I trained I'd say the problem is simple. It's the culture of most departments and the complete lack of discipline. You can't mix enormous amounts of authority with a lack in self discipline. It's a recipe for exactly what the OP shows.

Underneath, these are generally good people, they just don't know how to handle their emotions. When in situations like this they loose control and the OP is the result.

Am I letting the officer off the hook, NO WAY....I'm just saying that we would ALL fail in these situations because few people are trained to deal with the emotional stress that comes with being a police officer. Ultimately I blame the system and culture that has moved away from "protect and serve" the public and has increasingly militarized with the justification of protecting itself.
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Great post. Thanks!
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

csbrown28 said:
When training police I used to see this attitude all the time....Anyone with this attitude should be prevented from being a police officer as it shows a complete lack of empathy and mental self discipline.
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Ahh, so the emphatic and disciplined thing to do, according to you, is beat the woman in the head like in the video. And you say you train police? I think you're the problem.

No thanks, if she resists that much then I'll just taze her and cuff her.
 
Jerry said:
Tazing causes more pain and injury, yet if he tazed her we wouldn't be talking about this because we wouldn't have the image of a big white dude landing blows ona Black woman. This is all about image and perception, so this story is more about us, the news consumer, than what happened on the side of the freeway.

If I'm ever a cop I'll just taze the bitch and save myself the hassle.
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Pain yes but not actual injury. That's not common.

It also, used properly, disables them faster so that less damage is done to cop and suspect.
 
Lursa said:
Pain yes but not actual injury. That's not common.

It also, used properly, disables them faster so that less damage is done to cop and suspect.
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So disabling a perp in a fast way which causes less injury is what csbrown calls "lacking empathy and mental self discipline". And he claims to train police....wow.
 
Jerry said:
So disabling a perp in a fast way which causes less injury is what csbrown calls "lacking empathy and mental self discipline". And he claims to train police....wow.
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I didnt get that from his post and cant speak to that.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

Jerry said:
Ahh, so the emphatic and disciplined thing to do, according to you, is beat the woman in the head like in the video. And you say you train police? I think you're the problem.
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WTF? Did you actually read what I wrote? Go back and read again, tell me where I said that she should be beat in the head......Please...

No you don't beat her and you don't need to taze her either.

Both are the result of a lack of mental discipline (I've seen it a million times, officers get emotionally angry when people don't respect their authority and emotion clouds judgement), and police tactics. He could have easily applied some basic arm manipulation and taken her down with a LOT less force keeping himself and the woman safe. No need to punch her in the face, no need to "taze" her. Just a little mental discipline and basic tactical skill.

Example:



You cant get behind her?

Wrist manipulation works great....

 
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Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

csbrown28 said:
WTF? Did you actually read what I wrote?
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Yup, all of it.

csbrown28 said:
Go back and read again, tell me where I said that she should be beat in the head......Please...
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Sure, right here:

csbrown28 said:
If I'm ever a cop I'll just taze the bitch and save myself the hassle.
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When training police I used to see this attitude all the time....Anyone with this attitude should be prevented from being a police officer as it shows a complete lack of empathy and mental self discipline.
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According to you, just tazing her is "lacking of mental self discipline". And you say you teach cops, I wonder if you teach CHP and if you are why this incident happened in the first place.

csbrown28 said:
Both are the result of a lack of mental discipline...
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There it is again. It's clear you've never been in a real fight. And no, your little studio under controlled conditions is not a real fight.
 
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Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

csbrown28 said:
Example:

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They forgot to put the freeway in the video for the sense of urgency and imminent danger, and the 'perp' doesn't appear to be nearly as emotionally unstable or resistant as the woman in the video. This is yet another example of poor training. In the Army we actually do include as many real conditions as possible and rarely if ever see your calm studio.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

csbrown28 said:
You cant get behind her?
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Did you notice that the cop started out behind her, and then she began fighting him so he dropped her to the ground, and then she fought some more.

csbrown28 said:
Wrist manipulation works great....

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Look at the nice calm studio, such a compliant partner, too.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

Jerry said:
Yup, all of it.
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Then you need to work on comprehension.


Jerry said:
Sure, right here:


According to you, just tazing her is "lacking of mental self discipline". And you say you teach cops, I wonder if you teach CHP and if you are why this incident happened in the first place.
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Yes, tazing is unnecessary. Resorting to it in this particular case is unnecessary and causes more pain and potential injury than the situation calls for. What did cops do before tazers???

Jerry said:
There it is again. It's clear you've never been in a real fight. And no, your little studio under controlled conditions is not a real fight.
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LOL...This is the internet, I don't expect that if I told you my background it would matter, but I'll simply say, I've been "in a real fight".

The video's show you the techniques in a controlled environment so you can see what is being done. That's why its necessary to train for more than 6 weeks in an academy. In order to use these techniques in "real world" situations requires years of training, both mental and physical.

Having said that, I'll concede to you that a tazer is preferable to what this woman experienced, but the problem is that without training (mostly mental) cops end up doing stuff like this....

 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

csbrown28 said:
Then you need to work on comprehension.
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Apparently I can read well enough, because...
csbrown28 said:
I'll concede to you that a tazer is preferable to what this woman experienced....
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Which is what I thought, which is what you had called 'lacking in mental self discipline'. So now is it that you lack mental self discipline, or is it that you were wrong from the beginning? Either way you don't know what you're talking about.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

Jerry said:
Apparently I can read well enough, because...

Which is what I thought, which is what you had called 'lacking in mental self discipline'. So now is it that you lack mental self discipline, or is it that you were wrong from the beginning? Either way you don't know what you're talking about.
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Jesus, you say you can read, but your still ignoring stuff you don't like.

Being hit with a bat is better than being shot, but neither are preferable.

Is it better to be electrocuted than having your face bashed in? Yup (which is all I conceded when I said it was better the be tazed then have your face punched in), but it would be even better if police were appropriately trained to take control of people without having to resort to either. I could have taken that woman down (and the granma) without putting myself at significant risk and without electrocuting or punching anyone in the face.

You offhanded comment bout "tazing the bitch and saving yourself the hassle" demonstrates your casual attitude to causing pain. I've taught how to use a tazer, use pepper spray and the use of the police PR-24 (night stick with the handle). In order to teach Pepper spray and tazing, you have to experience it, I can tell you, from personal experience, it sucks.

The problem isn't the use of these devices in the right situation, the problem is that police are given so little training and the culture of (haha...I'll just taze the bitch and save myself the trouble) is, ironically exactly the culture I experienced when teaching cops. Many don't want to learn how to properly defuse a situation because they have all the tools they need to cause harm and force people into compliance. The cop in the last vid I posted screaming at the old woman is a perfect example.

There are times when tazers, pepper spray, and firearms are fully justified, again, the problem is that police, generally, lack the self discipline to use these tools in a way that respects the people they are supposed to be protecting. The also lack the training to deal with their own emotions and those emotions cloud their judgement. The cop beating the woman in the case is a perfect example. Do you think that any cop clear of mind would do that? I mean, if for no other reason than they would know that they are probably going to be taped. But that cop was angry and wasn't thinking straight. That is a lack of mental discipline.

I was going to be a cop, I know how hard the job is. After doing ride-alongs for a year with police I said no-f'ing way. That job sucks, but there are a lot of cops that become cops because they enjoy the feeling of authority and superiority that the position grants them. The position attracts exactly the same kind of people that we don't want being police officers.

Now, having said all of that...I painted with a broad brush and I know there are some really good cops out there. I have several friends that fall into that crowd. So if any officers read this....I know your job is difficult and I know you don't have the support externally or internally to do the job you've been given. As I said in the beginning, the problem starts at top.....The culture needs to change....
 
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Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

csbrown28 said:
Jesus, you say you can read, but your still ignoring stuff you don't like.

Being hit with a bat is better than being shot, but neither are preferable.

Is it better to be electrocuted than having your face bashed in? Yup (which is all I conceded when I said it was better the be tazed then have your face punched in), but it would be even better if police were appropriately trained to take control of people without having to resort to either. I could have taken that woman down (and the granma) without putting myself at significant risk and without electrocuting or punching anyone in the face.

You offhanded comment bout "tazing the bitch and saving yourself the hassle" demonstrates your casual attitude to causing pain. I've taught how to use a tazer, use pepper spray and the use of the police PR-24 (night stick with the handle). In order to teach Pepper spray and tazing, you have to experience it, I can tell you, from personal experience, it sucks.

The problem isn't the use of these devices in the right situation, the problem is that police are given so little training and the culture of (haha...I'll just taze the bitch and save myself the trouble) is, ironically exactly the culture I experienced when teaching cops. Many don't want to learn how to properly defuse a situation because they have all the tools they need to cause harm and force people into compliance. The cop in the last vid I posted screaming at the old woman is a perfect example.

There are times when tazers, pepper spray, and firearms are fully justified, again, the problem is that police, generally, lack the self discipline to use these tools in a way that respects the people they are supposed to be protecting. The also lack the training to deal with their own emotions and those emotions cloud their judgement. The cop beating the woman in the case is a perfect example. Do you think that any cop clear of mind would do that? I mean, if for no other reason than they would know that they are probably going to be taped. But that cop was angry and wasn't thinking straight. That is a lack of mental discipline.

I was going to be a cop, I know how hard the job is. After doing ride-alongs for a year with police I said no-f'ing way. That job sucks, but there are a lot of cops that become cops because they enjoy the feeling of authority and superiority that the position grants them. The position attracts exactly the same kind of people that we don't want being police officers.

Now, having said all of that...I painted with a broad brush and I know there are some really good cops out there. I have several friends that fall into that crowd. So if any officers read this....I know your job is difficult and I know you don't have the support externally or internally to do the job you've been given. As I said in the beginning, the problem starts at top.....The culture needs to change....
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I like how you first learned about everything that happened before the video started.

Oh wait, you didn't. You're just 20/20 quarterbacking what very little of the entire situation the media reported on. You have no idea what kind of training CHP has. You don't know this cop's experience. You don't know what happened before the video was started which may very well change your opinion of his actions. You have no clue, nore do you care.

You're right about one thing though, life is a game of would you rather, and I would rather taze this stupid bitch then have a video of me fighting her spread all over the internet.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

Jerry said:
I like how you first learned about everything that happened before the video started.

Oh wait, you didn't. You're just 20/20 quarterbacking what very little of the entire situation the media reported on. You have no idea what kind of training CHP has. You don't know this cop's experience. You don't know what happened before the video was started which may very well change your opinion of his actions. You have no clue, nore do you care.

You're right about one thing though, life is a game of would you rather, and I would rather taze this stupid bitch then have a video of me fighting her spread all over the internet.
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Your right, I don't know what happened, I'm judging based on what I've seen in the video. Maybe she had a gun or a knife, maybe she stabbed a baby in the face. I don't know, but I doubt it.

What I do know, according to CHP is that she is 51 years old and was walking around dazed in traffic on a freeway and didn't respond to the officers demands.

I'll make a deal with you, if she committed a serious and violent crime (pushing a police officer doesn't qualify in this case), I'll apologize to you, in my sig, but if she didn't you can apologize to me. Deal? I won't hold my breath.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

csbrown28 said:
Your right, I don't know what happened, I'm judging based on what I've seen in the video. Maybe she had a gun or a knife, maybe she stabbed a baby in the face. I don't know, but I doubt it.

What I do know, according to CHP is that she is 51 years old and was walking around dazed in traffic on a freeway and didn't respond to the officers demands.

I'll make a deal with you, if she committed a serious and violent crime (pushing a police officer doesn't qualify in this case), I'll apologize to you, in my sig, but if she didn't you can apologize to me. Deal? I won't hold my breath.
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Apoligize for proferring to tazer rather than fist-fight her? That's nothing to apologize for.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

Jerry said:
Apoligize for proferring to tazer rather than fist-fight her? That's nothing to apologize for.
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No, you said I was Monday morning quarterbacking, insinuating that perhaps she had done something serious, perhaps enough to deserve what she got?

I said I doubt it....Do you believe otherwise?
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

Jerry said:
Apoligize for proferring to tazer rather than fist-fight her? That's nothing to apologize for.
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Far as the tazer goes....Again, it's all good to "taze the crazy bitch" until that's your 51 year old mother/ aunt/sister whatever, then you'll be pissed she got tazed because she was in insulin shock or having an averse reaction to her medication.

Grabbing a woman and twisting her arm won't kill her, tazers can and have, especially on older people....Using them like harsh language is going to kill innocent people. Not a lot strictly by the percentages, about 3 out of every thousand are seriously injured, but using tazers indiscriminately as you profess, besides causing unnecessary pain, will kill a few people, some who don't deserved to be killed based on their "crimes".

The head of the U.S. southern regional office of Amnesty International, Jared Feuer, claimed that 277 people in the United States have died after being shocked by a Taser between June 2001 and October 2007, which has already been documented. He also claimed that about 80% of those on whom a Taser was used by U.S. police were unarmed.

-Wikipidia
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Another report I read, but can't substantiate is another ~500 people have died from tazer use since 2011.....I presume the number of tazings has risen, rather than they have become more lethal.

Were these all unjustified? Of course not, but I'm certain that some were and it will only get worse unless the culture of militarizing the police along with a lack of mental and physical training.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

csbrown28 said:
Far as the tazer goes....Again, it's all good to "taze the crazy bitch" until that's your 51 year old mother/ aunt/sister whatever, then you'll be pissed she got tazed because she was in insulin shock or having an averse reaction to her medication.
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If my grandmother is crazy enough to go for a walk on a busy freeway and she got tased while resisting police who were trying to remove her....I would be mad at her, not the cops.

csbrown28 said:
Grabbing a woman and twisting her arm won't kill her, tazers can and have, especially on older people....Using them like harsh language is going to kill innocent people. Not a lot strictly by the percentages, about 3 out of every thousand are seriously injured, but using tazers indiscriminately as you profess, besides causing unnecessary pain, will kill a few people, some who don't deserved to be killed based on their "crimes".
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Where's your source on pedestrian freeway fatalities?

csbrown28 said:
Another report I read, but can't substantiate is another ~500 people have died from tazer use since 2011.....I presume the number of tazings has risen, rather than they have become more lethal.

Were these all unjustified? Of course not, but I'm certain that some were and it will only get worse unless the culture of militarizing the police along with a lack of mental and physical training.
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Your source....why does it matter if the tazed person was unarmed? Tazer is less-than-lethal force, legally identical to using mace, am I right? If the perp is armed wouldn't you want a firearm over a tazer?
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

MaggieD said:
I've read that before, American. I think the reason is multi. One, people know it's on video; so they can't lie. Two, officers know it's on video and they behave better. I honestly don't know why we don't make it a requirement for every LEO in the USA.
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Taxes to pay for it.

...here, have a 'free' MRAP...
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

MaggieD said:
I've read that before, American. I think the reason is multi. One, people know it's on video; so they can't lie. Two, officers know it's on video and they behave better. I honestly don't know why we don't make it a requirement for every LEO in the USA.
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and just maybe the person the LE is interacting with also knows the event is being filmed.

Seems it might result in better behavior on both sides.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

MaggieD said:
I've read that before, American. I think the reason is multi. One, people know it's on video; so they can't lie. Two, officers know it's on video and they behave better. I honestly don't know why we don't make it a requirement for every LEO in the USA.
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I think the reasons are probably: money, storage space and opposition by local police/law enforcement unions. Worker unions aren't the only people who oppose things ya know ;) firefighters, police officers and healthcare professionals have their own unions and they tend to get away with blocking a lot of **** too.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

Buddha C said:
We should line up all the police officers, shoot them and start from scratch.
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yeah... you just lost all credibility. Comments like that make you seem like you are trolling and pretending to be on the left in order to make the left look bad.
 
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