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Driver records CHP officer punching woman[W:195]

Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

Problems in a bureaucracy start at the top.

The president isn't exactly in the chain of command of local police. If anything, as a voting citizenry, the local police are his boss so that kind of flushes your whole theory down the partisan toilet.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

There is no national police bureaucracy.

So far as I know, at least.

Out here in New Mexico I was driving down the road and saw an SUV cop car and on it said, "Federal Police". That was it. At first I got really pissed about it then thought about it for a bit and realized it's most likely because local and state police have no jurisdiction over the reservations out here. Only the federal government has such authority to go on a rez. And there are loads of them out here.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

What if she beat the **** out of a 90 y/o woman and stole her money? Would she deserve to get her ass whipped? Or, what if she was turning out little girls to be prostitutes?

You have a fundamental flaw in understanding what a justice system is for and what it does. Beating people up isn't a part of that no matter the situation. Defending one's self is about as close as one can come. Sitting on someone and punching them in the face is not defending one's self.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

You simply are not grasping the concepts here. All police are the same.

No.. No they are not. Not even close.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

If my grandmother is crazy enough to go for a walk on a busy freeway and she got tased while resisting police who were trying to remove her....I would be mad at her, not the cops.

Would you taze your gramma if she was walking in traffic? Even if she resisted?


Where's your source on pedestrian freeway fatalities?

WTF does that have to do with anything?

Your source....why does it matter if the tazed person was unarmed? Tazer is less-than-lethal force, legally identical to using mace, am I right? If the perp is armed wouldn't you want a firearm over a tazer?

Well lets see, 27 people killed by pepper spray in the last 31 years, close to 800 killed by tazing in the last 20(source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray)...hmmmmmm. And I'm just taking a guess here, but I bet there was a LOT more pepper spray used than tazers....

Your right, unarmed isn't enough information to determine if the tazing was justified, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that a significant percentage of those didn't require tazings, but given the lack of evidence I have to present feel free to chalk that up to opinion.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

What if she beat the **** out of a 90 y/o woman and stole her money? Would she deserve to get her ass whipped? Or, what if she was turning out little girls to be prostitutes?

Innocence until proven guilty, isn't to protect the guilty, it's there to protect the innocent.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

Would you taze your gramma if she was walking in traffic? Even if she resisted?
If I was that cop and that woman was my grandmother I would taze her long before I ever got on top of her and rained down punches.

WTF does that have to do with anything?
Its important to account for all the hazards in that situation and weigh each of them in context to the total situation.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

I've read that before, American. I think the reason is multi. One, people know it's on video; so they can't lie. Two, officers know it's on video and they behave better. I honestly don't know why we don't make it a requirement for every LEO in the USA.
I can't decide if they should be mandatory or not, but the circumstantial evidence is pretty damning... "Oh, so you CAN restrain yourself in what you would otherwise claim are heated situations when you think the chances of getting caught increases, eh?"
 
[ QUOTE=csbrown28;1063505002]Far as the tazer goes....Again, it's all good to "taze the crazy bitch" until that's your 51 year old mother/ aunt/sister whatever, then you'll be pissed she got tazed because she was in insulin shock or having an averse reaction to her medication.

Grabbing a woman and twisting her arm won't kill her, tazers can and have, especially on older people....Using them like harsh language is going to kill innocent people. Not a lot strictly by the percentages, about 3 out of every thousand are seriously injured, but using tazers indiscriminately as you profess, besides causing unnecessary pain, will kill a few people, some who don't deserved to be killed based on their "crimes".



Another report I read, but can't substantiate is another ~500 people have died from tazer use since 2011.....I presume the number of tazings has risen, rather than they have become more lethal.

Were these all unjustified? Of course not, but I'm certain that some were and it will only get worse unless the culture of militarizing the police along with a lack of mental and physical training.[/QUOTE]
how pissed would you be if the cop didn't do everything necessary to stop your crazy ass mother from getting killed in traffic or causing a wreck that killed others? Would we be talking about lawsuits for a cop that didn't do all he could do to restrain a woman walking into traffic on the freeway and evading arrest?
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

I think the reasons are probably: money, storage space and opposition by local police/law enforcement unions. Worker unions aren't the only people who oppose things ya know ;) firefighters, police officers and healthcare professionals have their own unions and they tend to get away with blocking a lot of **** too.

Yeah, I'd bet those unions fighting for the jobs of those accused of wrong-doing would just hate having video evidence. ;) ;)
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

I can't decide if they should be mandatory or not, but the circumstantial evidence is pretty damning... "Oh, so you CAN restrain yourself in what you would otherwise claim are heated situations when you think the chances of getting caught increases, eh?"

Exactly. And, honestly and fairly? How many complaints of "police brutality" are likely to go away? Hell, I'd be willing to donate a rather tidy sum (in comparison) to a local fundraiser to get them for my own local department. It'd probably save the entire cost of the system in legal fees and paid administrative leave in a few years.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

Taxes to pay for it.

...here, have a 'free' MRAP...

Cost would be offset by reduced lawsuit judgements to some degree.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

This news story is from a different case, but it shows the CHP's attitude towards being accountable to the public. I couldn't find a story on the results of the June 17th hearing.

DA, public defender butt heads over release of video from traffic stop
By Chris Roberts @cbloggy


The City's prosecutors and defense attorneys are fighting over whether video from a California Highway Patrol traffic stop should be released to the public.

First Amendment rights are at stake, according to the office of Public Defender Jeff Adachi, who is sparring with District Attorney George Gascón over footage from a May 12 traffic stop.

The case involves Jeanine Williams, who was charged with misdemeanor DUI, providing false information to police, driving with a suspended license and expired registration, according to records.

The CHP provided the prosecution with a DVD containing footage of the incident recorded from the CHP officers' patrol car, but on the condition that the video would not be released to the media, the public or anyone else without express permission from a judge.

Releasing the video -- which "may contain" CHP radio chatter or "tactics" -- to the news media or posting it on social media YouTube would threaten "public and officer safety," according to the CHP.

The District Attorney agreed and asked a San Francisco Superior Court judge to bar releasing the video or any stills pulled from it to the public.

The DA's order amounts to a "blanket protective order" that would block public access to any footage of CHP stops, the public defender argued, which also violates Williams's First Amendment rights.

State law protects much law enforcement activity from public disclosure, though the state Supreme Court ruled last week that the names of officers involved in shootings should be public.

A judge is scheduled to hear arguments in this case on June 17.

http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfranci...f-video-from-traffic-stop/Content?oid=2816035
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

Yeah, I'd bet those unions fighting for the jobs of those accused of wrong-doing would just hate having video evidence. ;) ;)

Well, if you think about it, they have a bigger interest in there not being video evidence. There is police brutality that doesn't leave any marks. However, I suspect it's more for the money:

Police brutality cases on rise since 9/11 - USATODAY.com

Cases in which police, prison guards and other law enforcement authorities have used excessive force or other tactics to violate victims' civil rights have increased 25% (281 vs. 224) from fiscal years 2001 to 2007 over the previous seven years, the department says.

If only 10% of those cases got lawsuits brought against them, it would mean millions in losses for the city as well as possible cutbacks in PD budgets. So yeah, cop unions who don't seem to interested in video cameras on their cars have reason.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

This news story is from a different case, but it shows the CHP's attitude towards being accountable to the public. I couldn't find a story on the results of the June 17th hearing.

DA, public defender butt heads over release of video from traffic stop
By Chris Roberts @cbloggy


The City's prosecutors and defense attorneys are fighting over whether video from a California Highway Patrol traffic stop should be released to the public.

First Amendment rights are at stake, according to the office of Public Defender Jeff Adachi, who is sparring with District Attorney George Gascón over footage from a May 12 traffic stop.

The case involves Jeanine Williams, who was charged with misdemeanor DUI, providing false information to police, driving with a suspended license and expired registration, according to records.

The CHP provided the prosecution with a DVD containing footage of the incident recorded from the CHP officers' patrol car, but on the condition that the video would not be released to the media, the public or anyone else without express permission from a judge.

Releasing the video -- which "may contain" CHP radio chatter or "tactics" -- to the news media or posting it on social media YouTube would threaten "public and officer safety," according to the CHP.

The District Attorney agreed and asked a San Francisco Superior Court judge to bar releasing the video or any stills pulled from it to the public.

The DA's order amounts to a "blanket protective order" that would block public access to any footage of CHP stops, the public defender argued, which also violates Williams's First Amendment rights.

State law protects much law enforcement activity from public disclosure, though the state Supreme Court ruled last week that the names of officers involved in shootings should be public.

A judge is scheduled to hear arguments in this case on June 17.

DA, public defender butt heads over release of video from traffic stop | Crime & Courts | San Francisco | San Francisco Examiner

For an occupation that thrives on "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.", they sure don't like to hold themselves to the same standard.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

I used to train police officers in "continuance of force techniques" (which ironically would have applied here). These techniques allow an officer to start with minimal force and still take control of a subject, all without beating people in the face.

Based on the officers I trained I'd say the problem is simple. It's the culture of most departments and the complete lack of discipline. You can't mix enormous amounts of authority with a lack in self discipline. It's a recipe for exactly what the OP shows.

The above being a perfect example...



When training police I used to see this attitude all the time....Anyone with this attitude should be prevented from being a police officer as it shows a complete lack of empathy and mental self discipline.

Having said that....

Underneath, most officers are generally good people, they just don't know how to handle their emotions. When in situations like this they loose control and the OP is the result.

Am I letting the officer off the hook, NO WAY....I'm just saying that most people would fail in these situations because few people are trained to deal with the emotional stress that comes with being a police officer. Ultimately I blame the system and culture that has moved away from "protect and serve" the public and has increasingly militarized with the justification of protecting itself.

Generally I would disagree that most officers are bad, but I think the way we police the public needs to change fundamentally.

I wish more would explain as you have the situation of police officers. I generally ascribe it to the Law Enforcement mentality vs. Peace Officer mentality which are two different and competing mentalities. The law enforcement mentality is actively looking for trouble, looking for law breakers keeping the peace is tertiary. The peace officer mentality is looking to diffuse or resolve trouble and generally keep the peace, enforcing the law is tertiary. So far that I can see in the urban and suburban areas anyhow the law enforcement mentality seems to predominate, while the peace officer mentality predominates the more rural areas though this is becoming less so over time it seems to me.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

If I was that cop and that woman was my grandmother I would taze her long before I ever got on top of her and rained down punches.

LOL, nice false dichotomy....It's not like those are the only two options. How about simply restraining your gramma, I mean you can overpower grandma, cant you? And even if you can't, a cop should be able to right?


Its important to account for all the hazards in that situation and weigh each of them in context to the total situation.

Agreed.....So what we appear to have here is a delirious 51 year old woman walking around in traffic.....Hmmmm Taze or beat in the face...How about NEITHER!
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

Ahh, so the emphatic and disciplined thing to do, according to you, is beat the woman in the head like in the video. And you say you train police? I think you're the problem.

No thanks, if she resists that much then I'll just taze her and cuff her.

He no such thing Jerry your putting words to screen he didn't write.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

Agreed.....So what we appear to have here is a delirious 51 year old woman walking around in traffic.....Hmmmm Taze or beat in the face...How about NEITHER!

It's obvious that there seems to be a bit of excessive force involved. What would you have done differently?
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

Releasing the video -- which "may contain" CHP radio chatter or "tactics" -- to the news media or posting it on social media YouTube would threaten "public and officer safety," according to the CHP.
That's why you'll never see the classified picture of dead Osama, because many things can be deduced from the picture beyond the mere image itself.

CHP should know better than to record anything which they don't want the public to know about.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

I wish more would explain as you have the situation of police officers. I generally ascribe it to the Law Enforcement mentality vs. Peace Officer mentality which are two different and competing mentalities. The law enforcement mentality is actively looking for trouble, looking for law breakers keeping the peace is tertiary. The peace officer mentality is looking to diffuse or resolve trouble and generally keep the peace, enforcing the law is tertiary. So far that I can see in the urban and suburban areas anyhow the law enforcement mentality seems to predominate, while the peace officer mentality predominates the more rural areas though this is becoming less so over time it seems to me.

I can see the need for both, but generally I would agree with you, right down to what the police wear:

Capture_zpseaead004.jpg

Vs:

OfficerKevinClay.OfficerMattChase.SeattlePolice.jpg

Who is more approachable?

Winning or hearts and minds, earning trust and respect....

The image the police wish to project is one of intimidation (top pic). The idea that respect can be commanded not earned. Its ridiculous.
 
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Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

It's obvious that there seems to be a bit of excessive force involved. What would you have done differently?

Well if I thought the woman was putting herself in danger and she wasn't responding to verbal appeals, then I would have restrained her. If she resisted I would have used tactics that most law enforcement is taught and taken her down, roller her on her stomach. From there it depends on how she acted.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

That's why you'll never see the classified picture of dead Osama, because many things can be deduced from the picture beyond the mere image itself.

CHP should know better than to record anything which they don't want the public to know about.

There is absolutely nothing the CHP or ANY others peace officers do which the public should not be privy to with the sole exception of CURRENT undercover operations and then only to hide the identities of the officers currently involved. They are public officials, on public dime, in public space or publicly owned facilities, on public business, they have absolutely NO expectations of privacy.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

It's not like those are the only two options.
I never said those were the only 2 options. I said I would do one before the other, and that's not saying there are only 2 options. I would listen to the Lego Movie theme-song for 5 hours straight before listening to even one Justin Bieber song, and that's not saying there is only Lego Movie theme and Justin Bieber 'music' in existence.

How about simply restraining your gramma, I mean you can overpower grandma, cant you? And even if you can't, a cop should be able to right?
With my grandmother in mind, I would probably tell her that Joe is waiting at the bank, and she would get right into my car. No problem.

But, you don't know who Joe is, you don't know why he would be waiting for her, you don't know why my grandmother would hurry to see him there. And neither would a random cop know any of this, and so if there was a struggle and she were tazed to get her off the busy freeway, my thoughts are towards what old-folks home to put her in, not suing CHP.

Agreed.....So what we appear to have here is a delirious 51 year old woman walking around in traffic.....Hmmmm Taze or beat in the face...How about NEITHER!
Do we know she sustained any injury at all yet? I think her next-of-kin is liable to the State for negligence in providing proper care for their relative and creating this public hazard. CHP should sue the old woman and her estate for the cost of the incident and the cop should sue her individually for placing his life in unnecessary risk on the freeway.
 
Re: Driver records CHP officer punching woman

There is absolutely nothing the CHP or ANY others peace officers do which the public should not be privy to with the sole exception of CURRENT undercover operations and then only to hide the identities of the officers currently involved. They are public officials, on public dime, in public space or publicly owned facilities, on public business, they have absolutely NO expectations of privacy.
The reason given wasn't 'privacy', but 'security'.
 
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