Obama to pitch immigration at citizenship ceremony

Ockham · Jul 4, 2014

Yahoo News - via AP said:
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama plans to highlight a positive side of the immigration debate by presiding over an Independence Day citizenship ceremony for service members who signed up to defend the U.S. even though they weren't American citizens. A total of 25 members of the Armed Forces will spend the Fourth of July as American citizens after the deputy secretary for homeland security delivers the oath of allegiance at a White House ceremony on Friday. The group includes 15 active-duty service members from the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines, along with two veterans, one reservist and seven spouses, the White House said. They represent 15 countries.

The politically divisive immigration issue is earning renewed attention after the influx of tens of thousands of unaccompanied children from Central America who, under U.S. law, must be sent back across the border to their home countries. That has upset advocates of overhauling U.S. immigration policy who want Obama to allow the children to stay.

At the same time, Obama blames House Republicans for delaying action on an immigration overhaul. A comprehensive measure the Senate passed last year has been blocked by House leaders who also have done little to advance legislative proposals of their own. Obama announced earlier this week that, as a result of lawmakers' inaction, he will pursue non-legislative ways that he can adjust U.S. immigration policy without waiting for Congress to act.

Obama to pitch immigration at citizenship ceremony

The President cannot legally legislate without the cooperation of Congress (both houses). The question becomes why isn't the President attempting to bring the parties together on this issue? Immigration reform is widely accepted in both GOP and Democratic circles as requiring a comprehensive overhaul, yet Congress and the President seem to be caught up in petty "tit for tat" actions such as the Senate holding legislation from being brought to the floor which passed the House, and the House holding legislation passed by the Senate doing the same thing. The President has an opportunity to compromise and work with both, be the adult in the room, but chooses instead to go off on his own without Congress. The SCOTUS has shown that such actions have consequences and may be over turned in the future. By not working with Congress and negotiating a compromise the President furthers the political divide - the question is, to what end?

MMC · Jul 4, 2014

Well we knew he would Ockham. :2wave: Its been leading up to this. First MO.....then Valerie Jarrett, Reid, and Pelosi. Maybe he should take up what Perry is saying. Which you have seen I said the same, with talking to Mexico and turning off the tap on their Southern Border.

WH: Obama Won't Visit Border While Attending Three TX Fundraisers Next Week

President Barack Obama will attend three fundraisers in Texas next week but will not travel to the border to see the crisis that many say he has exacerbated by not enforcing the country's immigration laws and vowing to enact unilaterally more executive actions to ease deportations. White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said at Thursday's White House press briefing that Obama is scheduled to attend a fundraiser for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee in Dallas on Wednesday and two events for the Democratic National Committee in Austin on Wednesday and Thursday.

When pressed about Obama's decision not to go to the border and the military bases and detention centers where illegal immigrant children are being warehoused, Earnest said Obama has all the information that he needs from his senior advisors. Earnest said Obama wants "regular reports about what they’re seeing on the border and how resources that are being devoted to processing those who have appeared at the border are being used to effectively administrate justice" and is "well aware of that process and how it’s going."

Texas Governor Rick Perry recently urged Obama to travel to the border. And at a House Homeland Security Committee Field Hearing at McAllen, Texas on Thursday, Perry also said Obama should use diplomacy to convince Mexico to secure its southern border with Guatemala -- if Obama cared about the issue.....snip~

WH: Obama Won't Visit Border While Attending Three TX Fundraisers Next Week

Dittohead not! · Jul 4, 2014

Ockham said:
Obama to pitch immigration at citizenship ceremony

The President cannot legally legislate without the cooperation of Congress (both houses). The question becomes why isn't the President attempting to bring the parties together on this issue? Immigration reform is widely accepted in both GOP and Democratic circles as requiring a comprehensive overhaul, yet Congress and the President seem to be caught up in petty "tit for tat" actions such as the Senate holding legislation from being brought to the floor which passed the House, and the House holding legislation passed by the Senate doing the same thing. The President has an opportunity to compromise and work with both, be the adult in the room, but chooses instead to go off on his own without Congress. The SCOTUS has shown that such actions have consequences and may be over turned in the future. By not working with Congress and negotiating a compromise the President furthers the political divide - the question is, to what end?

From your link:

The politically divisive immigration issue is earning renewed attention after the influx of tens of thousands of unaccompanied children from Central America who, under U.S. law, must be sent back across the border to their home countries.

From USA Today

As part of an effort to stem the flood of children caught trying to cross the nation's southwest border, President Obama is trying to change a 2008 law that dictates how the federal government handles those immigrant children in order to speed up their deportations.

Under that law, most of the unaccompanied minors being caught by Border Patrol agents must be handed over to the Department of Health and Human Services, which coordinates care for them, finds them safe housing and helps advise them on their legal rights as their immigration cases are decided. The president is now asking Congress to amend the law in a way that would allow Border Patrol agents to render a deportation decision themselves and quickly deport the children back to their home country.

Seems like a bit of a conflict there.

Anyway, Obama is supporting legal immigration by attending the citizenship ceremony, which has nothing at all to do with the humanitarian crisis stemming from violence in Central America and the 2008 law that Obama wants overturned.

Ockham · Jul 4, 2014

Dittohead not! said:
From your link:

From USA Today

Seems like a bit of a conflict there.

Funny since USA Today regularly uses AP sourced stories. I'm not seeing the conflict though.

Dittohead not! said:
Anyway, Obama is supporting legal immigration by attending the citizenship ceremony, which has nothing at all to do with the humanitarian crisis stemming from violence in Central America and the 2008 law that Obama wants overturned.

First, if you have an advanced copy of his speech please link it.

Second, please cite empirical evidence that the influx is directly linked to violence in Central America.

Third, can you be more specific about the 2008 law - what's the laws name and when was it passed, by who, etc.

Dittohead not! · Jul 4, 2014

Ockham said:
Funny since USA Today regularly uses AP sourced stories. I'm not seeing the conflict though.

First, if you have an advanced copy of his speech please link it.

Second, please cite empirical evidence that the influx is directly linked to violence in Central America.

Third, can you be more specific about the 2008 law - what's the laws name and when was it passed, by who, etc.

Here you go, from CNN:

(CNN) -- He's still a teenager, but Wilfredo Vasquez has already seen plenty in his life.
His story begins in Anamoros, a city in southeastern El Salvador. At 16, alone, living in poverty, threatened by violent gangs in his neighborhood and practically abandoned by his parents, Vasquez decided to leave everything behind and migrate to the United States.

I really didn't think there was any doubt or controversy over the link between violence in Central America and children coming to the USA from that area. Did you have a competing hypothesis?

and as to the law (same source):

The law, officially known as Special Immigrant Juvenile Status, was first enacted by Congress in 1990. In 2008, that law was expanded and reauthorized under new legislation.

From the link within the link:

Special Immigrant Juveniles (SIJ) Status

The purpose of the SIJ program is to help foreign children in the United States who have been abused, abandoned, or neglected.

Certain children who are unable to be reunited with a parent can get a green card as a SIJ
Children who get a green card through the SIJ program can live and work permanently in the United States

The law does not say that the illegal unaccompanied minors must be deported, quite the opposite.

ttwtt78640 · Jul 4, 2014

Dittohead not! said:
Here you go, from CNN:

I really didn't think there was any doubt or controversy over the link between violence in Central America and children coming to the USA from that area. Did you have a competing hypothesis?

and as to the law (same source):

From the link within the link:

Special Immigrant Juveniles (SIJ) Status

The law does not say that the illegal unaccompanied minors must be deported, quite the opposite.

The passing of immigration "reform" that allows all foreign minors that have been "abused" in their home country to receive instant immigration approval is insane. All of this talk of "comprehensive" immigration reform "packages" limits the passage of any single change that is acceptable to both parties (the House and Senate) since each party wants to attach the "good parts" to those that the other party objects to.

Dittohead not! · Jul 4, 2014

ttwtt78640 said:
The passing of immigration "reform" that allows all foreign minors that have been "abused" in their home country to receive instant immigration approval is insane. All of this talk of "comprehensive" immigration reform "packages" limits the passage of any single change that is acceptable to both parties (the House and Senate) since each party wants to attach the "good parts" to those that the other party objects to.

You and I and Barack Obama seem to be in agreement on this issue. Next, pigs will fly and Hell will freeze, just wait and see.

Ockham · Jul 4, 2014

Dittohead not! said:
Here you go, from CNN:

I really didn't think there was any doubt or controversy over the link between violence in Central America and children coming to the USA from that area. Did you have a competing hypothesis?

Can you provide the CNN link? There's no link.

Dittohead not! said:
and as to the law (same source):

From the link within the link:

Special Immigrant Juveniles (SIJ) Status

The law does not say that the illegal unaccompanied minors must be deported, quite the opposite.

The law doesn't address illegal unaccompanied minors at all, in fact it requires an application of I-360 for SIJ status and a court to verify and approve it. Who's doing that for these tens of thousands of people? How does an unaccompanied child fill out the form and prove:
Abuse
Abandonment
Neglect
Similar reason under state law

And which state law since these kids are being shipped all over, Boston, CA, etc.

It's a nice cover sound bite but once you dig into it, this doesn't make sense at all.

Fenton · Jul 4, 2014

Dittohead not! said:
From your link:

From USA Today

Seems like a bit of a conflict there.

Anyway, Obama is supporting legal immigration by attending the citizenship ceremony, which has nothing at all to do with the humanitarian crisis stemming from violence in Central America and the 2008 law that Obama wants overturned.

LOL !

You can't be this naive.

Dittohead not! · Jul 4, 2014

Fenton said:
LOL !

You can't be this naive.

Sorry, but there is a difference between naivete and accepting facts that don't jibe with someone's world view.

Ockham · Jul 4, 2014

Dittohead not! said:
Sorry, but there is a difference between naivete and accepting facts that don't jibe with someone's world view.

Once you get beyond the talking points, the facts and the laws don't line up with what's being done.

Dittohead not! · Jul 4, 2014

Ockham said:
Can you provide the CNN link? There's no link.

The law doesn't address illegal unaccompanied minors at all, in fact it requires an application of I-360 for SIJ status and a court to verify and approve it. Who's doing that for these tens of thousands of people? How does an unaccompanied child fill out the form and prove:
Abuse
Abandonment
Neglect
Similar reason under state law

And which state law since these kids are being shipped all over, Boston, CA, etc.

It's a nice cover sound bite but once you dig into it, this doesn't make sense at all.

It's a federal law, not a state law, and the effect is to take the determination of whether to deport unaccompanied minors out of the hands of the border patrol and put it in an overwhelmed court system that can't possible hear all of the applications for asylum.

link to CNN story

Dittohead not! · Jul 4, 2014

Ockham said:
Once you get beyond the talking points, the facts and the laws don't line up with what's being done.

Once you get beyond the talking points, the humanitarian crisis on our border no longer looks like a simple, black and white, Democrat vs Republican sort of an issue at all. It's getting beyond the partisan talking points that is difficult.

Mason66 · Jul 4, 2014

Ockham said:
Obama to pitch immigration at citizenship ceremony

The President cannot legally legislate without the cooperation of Congress (both houses). The question becomes why isn't the President attempting to bring the parties together on this issue? Immigration reform is widely accepted in both GOP and Democratic circles as requiring a comprehensive overhaul, yet Congress and the President seem to be caught up in petty "tit for tat" actions such as the Senate holding legislation from being brought to the floor which passed the House, and the House holding legislation passed by the Senate doing the same thing. The President has an opportunity to compromise and work with both, be the adult in the room, but chooses instead to go off on his own without Congress. The SCOTUS has shown that such actions have consequences and may be over turned in the future. By not working with Congress and negotiating a compromise the President furthers the political divide - the question is, to what end?

I am shocked they let non citizens into the armed services and put guns in their hands.

Ockham · Jul 4, 2014

Dittohead not! said:
It's a federal law, not a state law, and the effect is to take the determination of whether to deport unaccompanied minors out of the hands of the border patrol and put it in an overwhelmed court system that can't possible hear all of the applications for asylum.

The law you cited with the link does not single out unaccompanied minors. I'm not seeing the relevance. Can you point me in the law you linked what exactly applies to unaccompanied minors?

Dittohead not! said:
link to CNN story

Thanks for the link.

Ockham · Jul 4, 2014

Mason66 said:
I am shocked they let non citizens into the armed services and put guns in their hands.

The Armed forces has done that for decades... longer even.

grip · Jul 4, 2014

As much as I sympathize with poor people running from a life of poverty, increasing Cartel crime and violence, it's not fair to our citizens to support and integrate such a large body of illegals.

So far, I agree with the President for upholding our laws, though more could be done to secure the borders. But if he tries to use an executive order to allow illegal immigrants to stay, then I would be hotly against this.

It's obvious too me that the large Latino voting block is what both sides are trying not to alienate. That and much of the western cheap labor, costs of a fix, illegal deportation are some of the reasons our legislators won't tackle this problem.

It's not realistic for us to deport the millions of undocumented immigrants that have already established themselves within society, but we can deport what's currently being held and better secure the Mexican border.

Our gov't and leadership half assed the ME, the 2008 finanical crisis and now the border... it seems to be the political MO to try and placate everyone and fix nothing.

Dittohead not! · Jul 4, 2014

Ockham said:
The law you cited with the link does not single out unaccompanied minors. I'm not seeing the relevance. Can you point me in the law you linked what exactly applies to unaccompanied minors?

Thanks for the link.

Well, you really have to dig, all the way into the first paragraph, to wit:

The purpose of the SIJ program is to help foreign children in the United States who have been abused, abandoned, or neglected.

Certain children who are unable to be reunited with a parent can get a green card as a SIJ
Children who get a green card through the SIJ program can live and work permanently in the United States

Foreign children, i.e., children who were born somewhere else.
Unable to get a green care, i.e., illegals
reunited with a parent, i.e., unaccompanied, at least by a parent. Of course, the coyote might have tagged along, or not.

MMC · Jul 4, 2014

Dittohead not! said:
Once you get beyond the talking points, the humanitarian crisis on our border no longer looks like a simple, black and white, Democrat vs Republican sort of an issue at all. It's getting beyond the partisan talking points that is difficult.

Do you think the numbers would have increased like this without BO's EO? Why didn't BO say anything last year when the numbers doubled? Why didn't the MS Media?

Unitedwestand13 · Jul 4, 2014

MMC said:
Do you think the numbers would have increased like this without BO's EO? Why didn't BO say anything last year when the numbers doubled? Why didn't the MS Media?

Obama has no control over the gang violence occurring in El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala. Chaos in those countries has forced a lot of families to make difficult choices.

clownboy · Jul 4, 2014

Unitedwestand13 said:
Obama has no control over the gang violence occurring in El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala. Chaos in those countries has forced a lot of families to make difficult choices.

You're right, the people in those countries are the ones that can control that and they should stay and do so. His job is to ensure their problems aren't exported to here. He needs to stop hanging out the banner welcoming them to do so.

Dittohead not! · Jul 4, 2014

MMC said:
Do you think the numbers would have increased like this without BO's EO? Why didn't BO say anything last year when the numbers doubled? Why didn't the MS Media?

I don't think they would have increased like this without the law passed back in '00 and renewed in '08 that I've already cited, the law that BO says he opposes and wants changed. It wouldn't have increased as much without the rumor of the "permiso" that it spawned, the rumor that appears to be actually true.

Had the Border Patrol had the authority to simply escort the unaccompanied minors back home, it would have sent a clear message that the minors would not be allowed to stay, and a lot fewer would have come.

I'm not sure just what executive order you're referring to.

Unitedwestand13 · Jul 4, 2014

clownboy said:
You're right, the people in those countries are the ones that can control that and they should stay and do so. His job is to ensure their problems aren't exported to here. He needs to stop hanging out the banner welcoming them to do so.

I don't think you registered the importance the word 'chaos' with regards to what is happening in these Central American countries. The governments of those countries cannot control the situation because they are crippled by corruption. The gangs and cartels are creating the situation.

clownboy · Jul 4, 2014

Unitedwestand13 said:
I don't think you registered the importance the word 'chaos' with regards to what is happening in these Central American countries. The governments of those countries cannot control the situation because they are crippled by corruption. The gangs and cartels are creating the situation.

And that means precisely nothing to this discussion. The affairs of those nations are up to them and their people. It is not the job of our POTUS to import their problems here, nor is it his job to make those who come/stay here illegally welcome.

Dittohead not! · Jul 4, 2014

clownboy said:
And that means precisely nothing to this discussion. The affairs of those nations are up to them and their people. It is not the job of our POTUS to import their problems here, nor is it his job to make those who come/stay here illegally welcome.

The chaos described is precisely the reason why we have a humanitarian crisis on our border. No one sent out invitations. Desperate people only thought that there might be a solution to their problems because of a law passed by the past administration.

You make it sound as if the POTUS went and got them and brought them here.

Obama to pitch immigration at citizenship ceremony

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