• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge[W:513,870]

Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

tres borrachos said:
If you think this opened the door for any corporation to oppose birth control in their insurance plans, then you must think this is a very broad decision.

Nobody has less access to birth control that I can see, unless you think that all companies can now stop offering it. I don't see that in their opinions (yet, from what I've read).

HL didn't object to birth control. They still provide it - 16 types, in fact.
Click to expand...

Not ANY corporation, but certainly religion based ones. This decision by its face = less access to birth control for people who work for these corporations. HL may currently provide it....but this ruling certainly invites religion based companies to refuse to provide ANY....and don't think for a second that they aren't going to leap on this.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

This seemed like a bad battle to pick. The pill is less than 10 dollars per prescription as a generic. If you don't want to work for a bunch of fundies that believe the Pill is sinful, then don't work at Hobby Lobby. If you can't find anything else, then you can get your prescription filled at Target for 5 dollars even if Hobby Lobby won't cover it, so it just seems like a poor battle to pick in the culture wars.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Erod said:
Holy overreaction, Batman.

Contraception is about the easiest, cheapest medication there is.

This does, however, put a crack in Obama's ability to circumvent the Constitution and force people to buy a commodity.
Click to expand...

Talk about an over-reaction. This decision has nothing to do with "forcing people to buy a commodity". That is tremendous over-reaching on your part. The reality, however, is that although contraception may be relatively inexpensive, any time you make it harder for people to get....it is going to result in less people using it. That is just common sense 101. Less use of contraceptives will mean more unwanted pregnancies....again.....simple common sense 101....whether you like it or not.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

ocean515 said:
I know that's the meme, but it's a weak and completely disproven connection.
Click to expand...

How is it disproven? Obama literally based the mandate on Romneycare and the ideas generated from the Heritage Foundation, which was proposed in the 1990s by conservatives as compromise to Hillarycare.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

tres borrachos said:
Because the employees of HL can't get 4 forms of birth control through their HL sponsored insurance, abortions will increase? How so?
Click to expand...

I must be running in the wrong circles. I've never known anyone one that would just not buy birth control if it wasn't free. I've never known anyone that even tried to get it for free.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

disneydude said:
That doesn't change the fact that their lobbying will mean an increase in abortions as a result.
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. People who want the morning after pill can get their insurance through the exchanges.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Amadeus said:
How is it disproven? Obama literally based the mandate on Romneycare and the ideas generated from the Heritage Foundation, which was proposed in the 1990s by conservatives as compromise to Hillarycare.
Click to expand...

You obviously have no idea that we have 50 states in this nation and it isn't the Federal Government's role to provide individual responsibility items. If the state chooses to do so then that is the way it should be. For some reason you have faith an a bloated Federal Govt. that has created a 17.5 trillion dollar debt costing the taxpayers about 250 billion a year in debt service, why is that?

Romneycare was a state program, supported by the citizens of the state, and administered by the state and local government. You cannot seem to comprehend the difference between a state issue and a Federal issue
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Amadeus said:
How is it disproven? Obama literally based the mandate on Romneycare and the ideas generated from the Heritage Foundation, which was proposed in the 1990s by conservatives as compromise to Hillarycare.
Click to expand...

No he didn't. This has been discussed for years, so there is no reason to dredge it up again. Romneycare is a state program created by a Democrat Legislature, with many differences, and the Heritage Plan was abandoned. I appreciate how important it has been to push the narrative that Obamacare is a Republican Idea, but that's just propaganda and marketing.

Obamacare is the law, and it was placed on the books unilaterally by Democrats in Congress.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Maenad said:
No it doesn't. People who want the morning after pill can get their insurance through the exchanges.
Click to expand...

Nice try...but fail. The fact of the matter is that people who work for religion based companies are going to see less access to contraceptives as a result of this decision. The rest that follows is just simple common sense. Less access to contraceptives always = an increase in unwanted pregnancies = more abortion. They are going to just have to live with the consequences of their actions. I wonder how they feel about the blood that they will have on their hands?
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Anthony60 said:
I must be running in the wrong circles. I've never known anyone one that would just not buy birth control if it wasn't free. I've never known anyone that even tried to get it for free.
Click to expand...

I know people who expect it to be free.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

apdst said:
Fair enough for Hobby Lobby too?
Click to expand...

Absolutely.....however, they will have to live with the fact that their actions have consequences that could have been avoided....unintended consequences that I'm certain they would prefer not occur, which now will. It simply exposes the hypocrisy of these so called "Christian" pro-life groups.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

disneydude said:
Nice try...but fail. The fact of the matter is that people who work for religion based companies are going to see less access to contraceptives as a result of this decision. The rest that follows is just simple common sense. Less access to contraceptives always = an increase in unwanted pregnancies = more abortion. They are going to just have to live with the consequences of their actions. I wonder how they feel about the blood that they will have on their hands?
Click to expand...

So let's see if I have this right, personal choice is supported when it comes to aborting a fetus but not when it comes to choosing a job? No one forced anyone to take a job with any religious based company and pay/benefits are discussed at the time of hiring. Where are the rights of the business in your world?
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

disneydude said:
Nice try...but fail. The fact of the matter is that people who work for religion based companies are going to see less access to contraceptives as a result of this decision. The rest that follows is just simple common sense. Less access to contraceptives always = an increase in unwanted pregnancies = more abortion. They are going to just have to live with the consequences of their actions. I wonder how they feel about the blood that they will have on their hands?
Click to expand...

How do YOU? (abortion supporter)

BTW: The drugs banned from the plan. caused abortions-like reactions.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Conservative said:
So let's see if I have this right, personal choice is supported when it comes to aborting a fetus but not when it comes to choosing a job? No one forced anyone to take a job with any religious based company and pay/benefits are discussed at the time of hiring. Where are the rights of the business in your world?
Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with "aborting a fetus", it has to do with access to birth control. Lets at least start on the appropriate premise as opposed to your usual attempts at spin Con....
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Hobby Lobby is a private family owned business that already paid their employees better AND provided health care coverage. They already provided contraceptives when medically indicated. You would have thought they were a progressives wet dream. They rejected the the governments attempt to force them to pay for contraceptives for other than medical needs situation. Oh no...they dared to not roll over and take it. Vilify them!!!
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

WCH said:
How do YOU? (abortion supporter)

BTW: The drugs banned from the plan. caused abortions-like reactions.
Click to expand...

The decision goes beyond that. BTW....I don't support abortion. I just don't believe it is the government's decision to make.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

disneydude said:
This has nothing to do with "aborting a fetus", it has to do with access to birth control. Lets at least start on the appropriate premise as opposed to your usual attempts at spin Con....
Click to expand...

No, it has everything to do with choice, choice is good when it comes to birth control and abortion but not so in choosing a job. You want it both ways.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

disneydude said:
Absolutely.....however, they will have to live with the fact that their actions have consequences that could have been avoided....unintended consequences that I'm certain they would prefer not occur, which now will. It simply exposes the hypocrisy of these so called "Christian" pro-life groups.
Click to expand...

When are you going to hold the women who pop out kids they can't afford to the same standard?
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Conservative said:
No, it has everything to do with choice, choice is good when it comes to birth control and abortion but not so in choosing a job. You want it both ways.
Click to expand...

Not at all. A corporation should not be able to make medical decisions for their employees.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

apdst said:
When are you going to hold the women who pop out kids they can't afford to the same standard?
Click to expand...

I do. People should practice personal responsibility, but corporations should not be allow to hinder it.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

disneydude said:
This has nothing to do with "aborting a fetus", it has to do with access to birth control. Lets at least start on the appropriate premise as opposed to your usual attempts at spin Con....
Click to expand...

Hobby Lobby objected to four contraceptives on the market which they believed cause an abortion and, on moral/religious grounds, they refused to pay for and thereby condone those types of contraceptives. They had no objection to the many dozens of other contraceptives on the market that prevent pregnancy. Prevention of pregnancy in the first place was okay with them but abortion was not. Whether or not we agree with their point of view, they have every right as Americans living under the Constitution to hold their point of view.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

AlbqOwl said:
Hobby Lobby objected to four contraceptives on the market which they believed cause an abortion and, on moral/religious grounds, they refused to pay for and thereby condone those types of contraceptives. They had no objection to the many dozens of other contraceptives on the market that prevent pregnancy. Prevention of pregnancy in the first place was okay with them but abortion was not. Whether or not we agree with their point of view, they have every right as Americans living under the Constitution to hold their point of view.
Click to expand...

Absolutely....but they now have to live with the reality that their actions will mean that religion based corporations can now refuse to provide birth control which will mean more abortions. That is just a simple fact...unintended consequences that they now have to accept.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

disneydude said:
Absolutely....but they now have to live with the reality that their actions will mean that religion based corporations can now refuse to provide birth control which will mean more abortions. That is just a simple fact...unintended consequences that they now have to accept.
Click to expand...

That dire consequence conclusion does not follow from the decision at all. Those employees who consider themselves negatively impacted by the decision will simply have to buy their party hats elsewhere or they can simply get birth control pills elsewhere, they're cheap enough.

No one is now doomed to a lifetime of truck stop restroom coat hangers.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom