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Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge[W:513,870]

Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Without a 5-4 ruling to give the 2000 election to Bush, which gave us Roberts and Alito,
you'd be decrying this 6-3 vote against Hobby Lobby.
the liberal lobby is pushing this as a complete disaster for
women's health care in this country and are being misleading about what the ruling means.

for conservatives its a victory for religious freedom.

Make no mistake--the ruling is a bastardization of the 1st amendment.
It's about religious groups forcing their will on others, the reason why we left the King of England .
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Correct. The dicta of the decision however leaves open the possibility and raises the question how far can a religion push their beliefs into medical decisions.

not really. the SCOTUS majority was pretty much set that this was it. i posted what they said and you cut it off to continue an argument. question is why you did that.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

I am very close to Planned Parenthood so the reality is birth control is free and they will even send them to you. Are you really this selfish and expect someone else to pay for your contraception? What has happened to this country with so many like you and that entitlement mentality? Apparently you have no problem spending someone else's money.

I couldn't care how far you have to drive, take responsibility for your own actions.

First of all, since when does having insurance you EARN at work constitute someone 'paying' for anything healthcare related. When I was an employee, I earned those benefits and when I went to the doctor and got a shot or they stitched up a wound, no one GAVE that to me or paid that on my behalf any more than they gave me my monthly salary. So why in the world is contraception different?

Let's rewrite that and address it to the 10s of millions of employees out there, "Are you really this selfish and expect someone else to pay for your cancer treatment/diabetes drugs/cholesterol meds? Heck, if your employer doesn't pay, from the insurance you EARNED at work, just stand in line for 3 hours at the local free clinic once a month and get your prescription filled for free!"

Just call them slut pills and we'll all understand right wing thinking on this issue.

Second, I am responsible for my actions. I am self employed, have a paid off house, etc. So no need to lecture me. But lecturing women, and especially poor women, might make you feel good but it's not going to help any when you throw up barriers and make it harder for them to be responsible. I'll repeat it again, we have about 1.2 million (last time I checked) abortions per year. Lecturing isn't working. If you have another idea, great.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

I was repeating something someone else wrote- that 'free' contraception is available at any PP office. The point was that's good advice, but might not work out so well in REAL LIFE.

And sure, someone poor CAN get a brand new Lexus, but if they're poor, that might prove difficult in actual reality. I guess I don't understand why it's hard for you guys to admit that there ARE problems of access, especially among the poor, and then just say you don't give a damn. It'd be more honest than pretending that if contraception is denied by a bunch of employers and the easy solution put forth by the SC doesn't work (and it's being challenged in court as we speak), that it's no big deal to lots of women. It will be. So admit it and just say that you couldn't care less and then we're all on the same page.

Heck, it's not like the old system was working. 1.2 million abortions is a decent indication we've got a problem. If you all don't care to take any steps to solve it, that's fine, but then don't be shocked when those who DO try to make policy changes, such as coverage of contraception for 'free,' don't take your suggestions about what works and doesn't and what's a burden for women and what isn't, all that seriously. If you've got better ideas, let's hear them.

just an appeal to emotion. this ruling affects none of this so this is just one giant strawman.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

I don't think that is what Maquiscat was saying though. But I don't think he went far enough with his thought or he might have phrased it differently.

Most of the left/liberals for instance have no problem with hitting the taxpayer up for funding for an artist who then produces something offensive to many Americans or for funding the organization that exhibits it. That is, in a sense, forcing others to fund a form of 'free speech'. Many on the left doggedly support federal funding of NPR and PBS, both of whom they approve, but that forces others to finance those organizations that they may never listen to or might dissaprove. The liberal support for government control and criminalization of so-called 'hate speech' is also a way of using everybody's government to suppress the speech of some in the name of political correctness.

And there is a small but persistent push for Congress to reinstate funding for gun violence research (translation: support for more regulation of guns.) That funding was suspended I believe in 1996.

The point is that the Founders never intended the federal government to have any say in the regulation or use of guns and that was a matter to be left up to the individual, the states, and local communities.

WHAT "liberal support" for criminalization of "hate speech"? Can you provide ANY evidence that a significant number of liberals support that?
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

It's a mystery, what with the recession and high unemployment why any poor person with limited skills doesn't hold out for $20, $30 bucks an hour, full medical, no deductible. You should tell the millions of workers in necessary, low wage jobs that make this economy work that they need to just get a better job if they want health care.

Do you think with the brain God gave you or simply the heart? Where does personal responsibility rest in your world? People have no problem buying the things they want but when it comes to the things they need it is someone else's responsibility to buy those.

Those so called poor people in this country still have color TV's, cell phones, pagers, air conditioning, many have computers and now can live off the taxpayers for 2 years with unemployment benefits. Quite frankly I am getting sick and tired of the entitlement mentality you and others exert here and total lack of understanding of personal responsibility. You don't seem to get it, business is not in business to employ you or anyone else nor to provide you with whatever wage you need to live on. You like me when I started out need to adjust your living expenses to the wages you are paid and not demand more simply because you want something else to buy.

You don't seem to have any problem with someone else paying for that which you think you need. Pretty simple, you don't want to buy your contraceptives, don't have sex or live with the consequences if you choose to have sex.

You always broad brush everything, any idea how many people actually make the federal minimum wage and who those people are? Don't you think you should find out before spouting your opinions?
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

not really. the SCOTUS majority was pretty much set that this was it. i posted what they said and you cut it off to continue an argument. question is why you did that.

saving bandwidth......you are correct that the decision limited it to contraceptives, but anyone who has attended law school or otherwise studied jurisprudence understands how thing operate. The conservative lobby will seek to expand this ruling (just as the left seeks to expand other rulings)...its how our system of jurisprudence operates.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Insurance has been regulated so that the customer could have a reasonable expectation of what he/she was buying--truth in advertising and all that. But it has NEVER been regulated like it has been regulated under Obamacare. We have never had our liberties, choices, options, and opportunities restricted about anything as they are under Obamacare. And Obama's race or ethnicity has nothing to do with it so far as I am concerned. Why are you so conscious of it that you felt it necessary to bring it up?

The point is it's not the end of the world, but every dang thing Obama does is the end of the country as we know it. I don't know why because it's sure as heck not related to actual policy changes. Goodness, our seniors have a government mandated, shoved down their throat, single payer one size fits all government healthcare system and they LOVE it. The five most free economies on the planet have FAR higher regulations on healthcare than we do, and their world isn't ending either. The sky is falling, "THERE'S A WOLF!!!" rhetoric just gets tiring, and I tune it out.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Oh...I agree that there is rhetoric on both sides misinterpreting the opinion....which is why I invite everyone to read the court's opinion for themselves. I would agree that it is a victory for conservative religious groups.

well the is thing is, they are not getting something they didn't already have DD.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Freedom trumps socialism. It's a good day.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

All elections are like no others.
Please assume that Republicans will turn out as in the past and DEMs won't, as an "independent" from TN might .

Without a 5-4 ruling to give the 2000 election to Bush, which gave us Roberts and Alito,
you'd be decrying this 6-3 vote against Hobby Lobby.




Make no mistake--the ruling is a bastardization of the 1st amendment.
It's about religious groups forcing their will on others, the reason why we left the King of England .

it's about choice!

isn't that what the court decided? choice to say no, choice to say yes?
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Courts can make mistakes and rulings can be overturned and the laws can be changed. - Moot



Psst....the court based it's ruling on statutory law...not the constitution. :coffeepap

I'm aware of that. Just highlighting the final arbiter role of SCOTUS.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

JasperL;1063479661]First of all, since when does having insurance you EARN at work constitute someone 'paying' for anything healthcare related. When I was an employee, I earned those benefits and when I went to the doctor and got a shot or they stitched up a wound, no one GAVE that to me or paid that on my behalf any more than they gave me my monthly salary. So why in the world is contraception different?

Business is under no obligation to provide you with anything other than an equal opportunity to earn as much as the market will bear. They are not nor should they be forced to provide you or anyone else with insurance. It is the market that demanded employers do that and it is the market that will put businesses out of business if they don't meet the demands of their customers. Insurance is a cost that is paid by the consumers and if business cannot recover those costs you have a more serious problem, no job

Let's rewrite that and address it to the 10s of millions of employees out there, "Are you really this selfish and expect someone else to pay for your cancer treatment/diabetes drugs/cholesterol meds? Heck, if your employer doesn't pay, from the insurance you EARNED at work, just stand in line for 3 hours at the local free clinic once a month and get your prescription filled for free!"

Life is a bitch, isn't it, just like personal responsibility. My wife died of cancer but was never denied treatment and got the best treatment Houston had to offer. You don't seem to have any concept as to the role of business, the purpose of business, nor the responsibilities of business. Ever think of finding a country more to your liking? You don't earn insurance, you take a job that offers insurance or don't take the job.

Just call them slut pills and we'll all understand right wing thinking on this issue.

No, I prefer to call those women who have unprotected sex, demanding others to pay for it the sluts.

Second, I am responsible for my actions. I am self employed, have a paid off house, etc. So no need to lecture me. But lecturing women, and especially poor women, might make you feel good but it's not going to help any when you throw up barriers and make it harder for them to be responsible. I'll repeat it again, we have about 1.2 million (last time I checked) abortions per year. Lecturing isn't working. If you have another idea, great.

Good, since you are responsible for your own actions, why aren't others. Is it because you are so much smarter than others. Please don't tell me that you really give a damn about someone else and what insurance they have, you simply want the issue like most liberals.

It really does make me feel good to starve kids, kills seniors, and pollute the air, that is why I give more to charity than you probably make. I don't believe that is the role of a bureaucrat in D.C. operating on a 3.8 TRILLION Dollar budget. I simply wish people like you would get a clue and stop looking to the Federal Govt. to provide you with what you want. The real people getting screwed here aren't the sluts, it is the American taxpayer who is paying for this bull****.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

The point is it's not the end of the world, but every dang thing Obama does is the end of the country as we know it. I don't know why because it's sure as heck not related to actual policy changes. Goodness, our seniors have a government mandated, shoved down their throat, single payer one size fits all government healthcare system and they LOVE it. The five most free economies on the planet have FAR higher regulations on healthcare than we do, and their world isn't ending either. The sky is falling, "THERE'S A WOLF!!!" rhetoric just gets tiring, and I tune it out.

Got it, that is why Obama's JAR is so great and why healthcare is so highly supported. This country has over 312 million people in 50 sovereign states. You want a one size fits all program for all those states? does it cost as much in Tenn as it does in Illinois to live and for healthcare? Healthcare is not only an individual responsibility but it varies by state in terms of costs. One size fits all sounds great but all it does is give bureaucrats more money and power. Doesn't seem to bother you as long is it is perceived as spending in the name of compassion. Tell me, where are those compassionate results?

Our Seniors are being screwed by Medicare. I turned 65 three years ago and went from private insurance to Medicare. You are in for quite a surprise, an unpleasant one, when you turn 65. Another liberal utopian program that is not only bankrupt, but poorly managed, poorly administered, and one that short changes liberals. You have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Without a 5-4 ruling to give the 2000 election to Bush, which gave us Roberts and Alito,
you'd be decrying this 6-3 vote against Hobby Lobby.




Make no mistake--the ruling is a bastardization of the 1st amendment.
It's about religious groups forcing their will on others, the reason why we left the King of England .

Yes, God forbid that someone with their own money invested in their own business decide what insurance to offer their employees and of course those employees had a gun held to their head to take those jobs. You people have no problem spending someone else's money. Interesting as to why you don't start your own business and see how easy it is being the last one paid with the funds left over. I have yet to see a business with a money tree in their back yard or a legal printing press in their basement. They have to do something liberals like you don't seem to understand, earn what they have to spend on federally mandated programs. If they don't earn the money they go out of business. If the govt. needs more money they print it. What a great govt. we have today
 
Liberals want more corporations with a moral conscience. But only a liberal baby killing moral conscience.

Not going to lie...I'm a conservative and think it's funny as hell how twisted people are over this. As an employer the Hobby Lobby is a progressives wet ****ing dream. They paid $6 an hour over minimum wage and provided health care with 16 different forms of contraception authorized. They were the model of what leftists believed business should be. Let them choose to not cover an abortion pill and watch the left lose their ****ing minds. Hell yes...it's kinda hilarious.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

WHAT "liberal support" for criminalization of "hate speech"? Can you provide ANY evidence that a significant number of liberals support that?

I'll just refer you to any number of threads here at DP that deal with political correctness issues. But I will amend my remarks to be "In my Opinion", the left rarely ever protests government involvement or investigation of so-called hate speech if it is directed at a minority.
 
Liberals want more corporations with a moral conscience. But only a liberal baby killing moral conscience.

Don't you know that liberals are all God like, knowing what is right or wrong, knowing what is best for everyone else, and have no problem spending someone else's money? A living fetus isn't a baby in the liberal world thus there isn't anything to save. That sonogram really is nothing more than a trumped up conservative machine projecting a false image therefore when a woman kills that fetus it really isn't murder, just selfishness run amuk.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

I need not take irrationality seriously.

It's not irrational. It's a recognition of a very skewed standard.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

I'll just refer you to any number of threads here at DP that deal with political correctness issues. But I will amend my remarks to be "In my Opinion", the left rarely ever protests government involvement or investigation of so-called hate speech if it is directed at a minority.

You want a thread to max out talk about Same sex marriage or birth control. You are right all political correct issues regarding social responsibility and who has that responsibility.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

The point is it's not the end of the world, but every dang thing Obama does is the end of the country as we know it. I don't know why because it's sure as heck not related to actual policy changes. Goodness, our seniors have a government mandated, shoved down their throat, single payer one size fits all government healthcare system and they LOVE it. The five most free economies on the planet have FAR higher regulations on healthcare than we do, and their world isn't ending either. The sky is falling, "THERE'S A WOLF!!!" rhetoric just gets tiring, and I tune it out.

Well that is certainly one way to deflect from an issue important to a lot of us and Obamacare is definitely seen as a serious issue important to a lot of us. Just say that we do that about everything or go to extreme hyperbole that was never expressed. And you know what? The USA was once the nation other nations envied and hoped to emulate. We had the finest schools, the finest healthcare system, the most free, the most innovative, most productive, and most prosperous people in the world when we did things the way we thought they should be. So why in the world do some think we should look to others and do it their way and become like them instead of being the trend setter that we once were?
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Do you think with the brain God gave you or simply the heart? Where does personal responsibility rest in your world? People have no problem buying the things they want but when it comes to the things they need it is someone else's responsibility to buy those.

Those so called poor people in this country still have color TV's, cell phones, pagers, air conditioning, many have computers and now can live off the taxpayers for 2 years with unemployment benefits. Quite frankly I am getting sick and tired of the entitlement mentality you and others exert here and total lack of understanding of personal responsibility. You don't seem to get it, business is not in business to employ you or anyone else nor to provide you with whatever wage you need to live on. You like me when I started out need to adjust your living expenses to the wages you are paid and not demand more simply because you want something else to buy.

You don't seem to have any problem with someone else paying for that which you think you need. Pretty simple, you don't want to buy your contraceptives, don't have sex or live with the consequences if you choose to have sex.

You always broad brush everything, any idea how many people actually make the federal minimum wage and who those people are? Don't you think you should find out before spouting your opinions?

You give yourself away a bit when you refer to a broad class of people as the "so called" poor. Are they not 'really' poor unless they're living in a cardboard house, bathing in the river, and have kids with swollen bellies from starvation and malnutrition like you see in the REALLY poor countries? Give me a break.

And I don't know what you expect from the so-called poor. It's not like we have an economy with lots of good paying jobs that no one will fill. These people you're all but spitting on will line up by the thousands for every decent job that opens up. Read the news about a plant opening - is there a shortage of people willing to work for a decent wage? Here's the first story where I could get numbers - 30,000 apply for 2,000 jobs. Those jobs just don't exist, we lost about 5 million of them last decades, and replaced them with crap service jobs with low pay.

So I'm just not sure what you expect. That we adopt the expectations of the third world for the ACTUAL poor and anyone who isn't living at the brink of subsistence has it lucky?

BTW, as to the consequences, we ALL live with the consequences. 1.2 million abortions, lots of dysfunctional parents raising troubled kids that are multiples more likely to get into trouble, etc. But, keep scolding people, I'm sure that will work out eventually.

And if you want to make a point about minimum wage, I'll listen, but I hope you're not going to just quote those at the very bottom because that's a pretty incomplete picture of the labor situation. I know we've got approaching 50 million poor enough to qualify for food stamps, so that's a fairly good indication of the number of Americans barely getting by, and with real unemployment topping out over 10%, it's not like you can tell them all to just GET A JOB! and that would work because the jobs do not exist.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Got it, that is why Obama's JAR is so great and why healthcare is so highly supported. This country has over 312 million people in 50 sovereign states. You want a one size fits all program for all those states? does it cost as much in Tenn as it does in Illinois to live and for healthcare? Healthcare is not only an individual responsibility but it varies by state in terms of costs. One size fits all sounds great but all it does is give bureaucrats more money and power. Doesn't seem to bother you as long is it is perceived as spending in the name of compassion. Tell me, where are those compassionate results?

Fact is if right wingers in red states would get off their lazy rear ends, they could design a program that isn't the ACA because the ACA allows them to experiment, but they'd rather whine and moan about what someone else came up with than do the hard work of actually solving a problem like healthcare. Same thing on the national level. GOPers have sat around forever and done nothing but first kill HillaryCare then whined and obstructed Obamacare.

And the ACA reflects a lot of those differences. Rates where i live are fairly cheap because I'm in the healthcare center for the region, and the cost of living is low, so California or NYC is much higher. It's got private insurers and while they do have to offer a fairly big basket of 'essentials' they can and do vary quite a bit with regard to everything else. Rates have a huge range in my area from Copper to Platinum and even within those bands. You're claiming a system exists that really doesn't - it's just not the end of the world. KY is a red state and they really like Obamacare so long as it's called Kynect!

The bottom line I always tell my right wing friends is talk is dang cheap. You all don't like obamacare, great, I don't either. So why does an entire movement seem incapable of getting off their dang lazy butts and actually do some work and propose something better, put it in a bill with details, get it passed and paid for with taxes or spending cuts, and we'll see the wonderful, glorious, right wing solution? How long do we need to wait? Another 50 years?

Our Seniors are being screwed by Medicare. I turned 65 three years ago and went from private insurance to Medicare. You are in for quite a surprise, an unpleasant one, when you turn 65. Another liberal utopian program that is not only bankrupt, but poorly managed, poorly administered, and one that short changes liberals. You have no idea what you are talking about.

You're in the small minority, then, because Medicare is still a third rail of politics with very high approval ratings. My mom and mother in law have it, and I'm quite involved in their healthcare and I haven't run into any issues. They get good doctors, have access to any hospital they want, etc. If you want to be specific, then you can do that. We need to cut costs, but anymore whenever someone mentions cost cutting the right wing screams DEATH PANELS!!
 
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