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Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator[W:217:241]

Re: Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator

pbrauer said:
For some reason, you don't think you're not being partisan, why is that?
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Because if this was Bush, I wouldn't be turning a blind eye to it. I had more objections to things Bush did than I could list on here. And I do not like to sit and see a powerful agency abuse its powers.

The partisan here is you. I don't even think Obama knew about what was going on. But he is POTUS, and he owns this. Fact.
 
Re: Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator

sangha said:
She didn't say who should be audited

From the article you say you read
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While her email isn't specific the response to her email indicates the intent and implies that there may have been additional communication between these two on the subject.

Again, the fact that a person in her position should need to be reminded of the fundamental principles of "reasonable cause" is shocking.
 
Re: Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator

tres borrachos said:
If you could care less, then that means you care a lot.

No, I know pete, nothing nefarious. Not even a smidgeon of corruption. Yes, we know. Obama already said that, and I know...his words are good enough for you.
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I knew that even before he said it, I following this story for over a year. They whole story is nothing more than bureaucratic bungling, but you and many people on the right refuse to believe it. Maybe some day you will realize that is fact.
I want Lois Lerner to be given immunity from prosecution so she can testify without fear. Let the chips fall where they may.
 
Re: Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator

Lutherf said:
While her email isn't specific the response to her email indicates the intent and implies that there may have been additional communication between these two on the subject.

Again, the fact that a person in her position should need to be reminded of the fundamental principles of "reasonable cause" is shocking.
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I see. You can tell Lerner's intent by what someone else said.

And IRS audits don't require reasonable cause. I'm not sure that's even a legitimate term. I think you may have made it up
 
Re: Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator

pbrauer said:
I knew that even before he said it, I following this story for over a year. They whole story is nothing more than bureaucratic bungling, but you and many people on the right refuse to believe it. Maybe some day you will realize that is fact.
I want Lois Lerner to be given immunity from prosecution so she can testify without fear. Let the chips fall where they may.
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Excuse me? You knew about this story before Obama said anything about the IRS? How so? Were you hacking in her emails?
 
Re: Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator

tres borrachos said:
Our government won't wreck this country. It's the partisanship amongst the citizens that will.

And the politicians are laughing themselves sick over it, and high fiving each other about it. None of this could happen if we didn't enable it as a citizenry.
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Perhaps all of this partisanship is leading to the rise of the independent voter. Over the last ten years those who classify themselves as independent have rose from 30% of the electorate to 46% according to Gallup. The democratic party is at 28% of the electorate, they haven't been this low since before the great depression. The republicans are even worse at 24%, this is not a low for them, the republican party was at 21% right after Watergate in 1975. By the way in 1975 51% identified themselves as Democrats.

I think people are just plain tired, disgusted of both major political parties. Look at the two parties favorable ratings: Republicans have a 34% favorable rating vs a 53% unfavorable. The Democrats have a 37% favorable/51% unfavorable. I think this all boil from the hyper-partisanship of both parties today.
 
Re: Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator

pbrauer said:
I really couldn't care less what technology YOU have. Do you think the U.S. government goes out and buys the latest and greatest? I got news for you..... They don't.
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Grim17 said:
Partisan politics to the bitter end... Nice.
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WTF are you talking about? :roll:
 
Re: Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator

sangha said:
This is why I try to encourage partisanship and polarization
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Why might I ask? There has always been partisanship around, but never the hardcore partisanship of today. Where both parties say to each other it is my way or the highway. One couldn't have had a more partisan Democrat than LBJ, but as senate majority leader he worked with Eisenhower to get things accomplished.

I was just about to go into history and then the electricity finally hit the light bulb in my head. If I read you right, if more and more partisanship and polarization leads to more and more independent voters and thinkers outside of the box of party politics, that would be indeed a good thing.
 
Re: Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator

tres borrachos said:
Excuse me? You knew about this story before Obama said anything about the IRS? How so? Were you hacking in her emails?
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By "story" I meant conservative targeting, not the email story.
 
Re: Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator

sangha said:
I see. You can tell Lerner's intent by what someone else said.

And IRS audits don't require reasonable cause. I'm not sure that's even a legitimate term. I think you may have made it up
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4.1.5.1.1 (08-24-2012)
Classification

......

4. Non-DIF returns will be manually classified to select returns that contain significant issues likely to result in tax changes or that require examination to achieve voluntary compliance by an identifiable group of taxpayers.

....
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Internal Revenue Manual - 4.1.5 Classification and Case Building

While the term "reasonable cause" doesn't expressly occur in this requirement the context is certainly there and the principle is considered when making determinations of taxpayer liability. It also happens to be the claim that the IRS is now using to justify the loss of Lerner's emails though, perhaps, the irony of that may be lost on you.
 
Re: Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator

Lutherf said:
Internal Revenue Manual - 4.1.5 Classification and Case Building

While the term "reasonable cause" doesn't expressly occur in this requirement the context is certainly there and the principle is considered when making determinations of taxpayer liability.
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The email that Lerner received in error suggested that someone might be out of compliance.

It also happens to be the claim that the IRS is now using to justify the loss of Lerner's emails though, perhaps, the irony of that may be lost on you.
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I have no idea what you're talking about specifically. Are you saying that hard disks crashed because Lerner had reason to think someone might not be complying with the income reporting requirements?
 
Re: Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator

Perotista said:
Perhaps all of this partisanship is leading to the rise of the independent voter. Over the last ten years those who classify themselves as independent have rose from 30% of the electorate to 46% according to Gallup. The democratic party is at 28% of the electorate, they haven't been this low since before the great depression. The republicans are even worse at 24%, this is not a low for them, the republican party was at 21% right after Watergate in 1975. By the way in 1975 51% identified themselves as Democrats.

I think people are just plain tired, disgusted of both major political parties. Look at the two parties favorable ratings: Republicans have a 34% favorable rating vs a 53% unfavorable. The Democrats have a 37% favorable/51% unfavorable. I think this all boil from the hyper-partisanship of both parties today.
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Perhaps, but I don't see it being a reality. The parties are too powerful, and without a global citizen rebellion against both of them, we who don't always toe the partisan line will not be in the majority. People are tired of it. I'M tired of it.

I wish everyone would look at the Libertarians who IMO are the only ones with any chance of doing the right thing. I really thought Paul would bring in more voters in 2012.
 
Re: Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator

tres borrachos said:
Perhaps, but I don't see it being a reality. The parties are too powerful, and without a global citizen rebellion against both of them, we who don't always toe the partisan line will not be in the majority. People are tired of it. I'M tired of it.

I wish everyone would look at the Libertarians who IMO are the only ones with any chance of doing the right thing. I really thought Paul would bring in more voters in 2012.
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I say keep your hopes up, but I would go as far as to say keep the faith. Back when Perot ran only 39% of all Americans said they would consider voting for a third party candidate, today that figure is up to 81%. Think of what exactly those numbers mean. 46% of the electorate identify as independents, to get up to the 81% at least 35% of those who associate themselves with the two major parties are willing to vote for a third party candidate. Even a lot of those who are republicans and democrats are not happy with their own party.

Yes a lot would have to change to get a viable third party going, one would have to overcome the election laws written by republicans and democrats as a mutual protect act, tighten I might say since Perot's two runs. Then there is the financial, those corporations, Wall Street firms, lobbyist, special interests who donate their millions and tens of millions are not inclined to donate as much as a single dime to any third party. But I still see hope. If the two parties keep losing members, now down to 52% of the electorate, it won't be long before independents go over the 50% mark. Imagine that, more independent voters than those who are Republicans and Democrats combined. Then all that will be needed is a viable third choice.
 
Re: Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator

sangha said:
The email that Lerner received in error suggested that someone might be out of compliance.
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Please explain how anything in that note might imply non-compliance with any tax law.
 
Re: Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator

pbrauer said:
If it were only true. See my new thread in "Bias"
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This story about the Grassley email is new, pete. And no, I can't stomach any of Media Matters' ragings. They are hyper-partisan. And are also always coming to Obama's defense.
 
Re: Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator

tres borrachos said:
This story about the Grassley email is new, pete. And no, I can't stomach any of Media Matters' ragings. They are hyper-partisan. And are also always coming to Obama's defense.
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So, you want to stick your head in the sand? They are partisan, but they don't lie, they give reasonable responses backed up with links.
 
Re: Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator

pbrauer said:
So, you want to stick your head in the sand? They are partisan, but they don't lie, they give reasonable responses backed up with links.
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Give me a non-partisan source, pete. I wouldn't expect you to look at something from WMD or Hannity. Don't expect me to read trash from MM, which is a partisan hack site.

The Grassley story is brand new. And Media Matters can spin it all they want, and try to make it partisan all they want, and bitch because Fox jumped on it, or whetever. Irrelevant. This is about Lerner, and also about potential abuse of IRS power. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
Re: Emails: IRS official sought audit of GOP senator

tres borrachos said:
Give me a non-partisan source, pete. I wouldn't expect you to look at something from WMD or Hannity. Don't expect me to read trash from MM, which is a partisan hack site.

The Grassley story is brand new. And Media Matters can spin it all they want, and try to make it partisan all they want, and bitch because Fox jumped on it, or whetever. Irrelevant. This is about Lerner, and also about potential abuse of IRS power. Nothing more, nothing less.
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How about the email exchange from the Ways and Means Committee?
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/uploadedfiles/irs_grassley.pdf
 
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