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U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

I remember that I saw a report like this back in May, if I am not mistaken. When I saw it, I thought it was going to have a strong negative impact on the number of jobs that were going to be created. But, when the job report was released at the beginning of this month everything was quite okay at total of +217,000 were created. I don't think that is going to have much of an impact on the number of jobs that will be created in the following months.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487]

Fenton said:
Lets look at it HONESTLY.

Obama signed 9 out of the 12 Spending appropriations bills from Pelosi's FY2009 Budget.

He then passed " Stimulus " ( a pay off to the Unions ) and then ran 3 Consecutive TRILLION dollar plus annual deficits.

So he lowered deficit spending from 1.3 Trillion down to 600 Billion for the years following ?

Big damn deal , it still equates to 6 trillion added to our debt in 5 years.

What are you trying to prove ?
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Just that anyone can present the metrics to "prove" any point that they chose to "prove". And you just did that. You also shifted the last Bush budget year into Obama's column to do that.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

greatar4 said:
... When I saw it, I thought it was going to have a strong negative impact on the number of jobs that were going to be created...
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No one can consistantly predict the economic future of anything. Seems like everytime I focus in on a particular event or situation, and then try to make a projection of the future based upon that one factor, I am wrong about 50% of the time.

Of course when I am correct, I make claim to being an economic genius, and when I am incorrect, it's because of other factors which "distorted the market."
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487]

imagep said:
Just that anyone can present the metrics to "prove" any point that they chose to "prove". And you just did that. You also shifted the last Bush budget year into Obama's column to do that.
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Like I said, lets be HONEST about what Obama's responsible for in terms of spending.

The "metric " I used accounts for ALL of his spending.

The FY 2009 Budget was Pelosi's budget which Bush threatened to VETO.

It included massive amounts of new spending and was written that way with the hopes of a Democrat win in 2008.

What metric are you using ? The one that absolves Obama in place of a false narrative that Republicans are the party of debt ? Because thats BS.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

imagep;1063477967]So you were just pretending that the free money in the mail program of 2008 didn't happen. Selective memory is a common trait among ideologues.
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Now this is scary and you claim to be a business owner? Wow, free money? Do you have any idea where that money came from that was rebated to you? I don't know many American workers who call getting some of their money back getting free money?


I thought that it ended in March or April of 2009, but regardless of that, I think it had just pretty much burned itself out. The spendulous bill probably did contribute slightly, but mostly likely for psychological reasons more than anything else (I am under the impression that the recession ended about the same time that the first spendulous checks were being distributed).

Regardless, no president was going to stand by and let our economy go down the toilet while doing nothing. I don't care who was elected, that person would have pushed for some sort of stimulous program.

I would have preferred massive tax cuts for the worker/consumer class, and a significant reduction in corporate income tax rates.
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Officially the recession ended in June 2009 long before those shovels ever got to the states for those shovel ready jobs. In fact some are still waiting for their shovels. The fact is this is the worst recovery ever from a recession and it has everything to do with the lack of leadership by someone who never led anything. Obama thinks he is a king and his every word makes a difference. He wasn't qualified in 2008 and after over 5 years on the job he still remains unqualified.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Mustachio said:
So please, tell me what Reagan did and I'll let Obama know he should do it. Should Reagan raise taxes like he did in 1982? The national debt tripled during Reagan's presidency, so that's not something the Democrats need to learn how to do. Maybe it was the deregulation of industry that Carter started? I'm guessing that you're thinking about the magic wand our great leader waved which made everything all better.
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Reagan cut INCOME TAXES THREE YEARS IN A ROW!!!!! GET IT YET?? The taxes he raised were use taxes so if you didn't use the problem you didn't pay any more in taxes.

The national debt did indeed triple during the Reagan years, yes, it went up 1.7 trillion dollars while the economy doubled to over 5.2 trillion so tell me what percentage of GDP is the 2.6 trillion Reagan left? (he inherited 900 billion, a double dip recession, and added 1.7 trillion to the debt. That remains about 50% of GDP. what is it now?

You people are really something else, most too young to understand what Reagan did but there is a reason he won 49 states in 1984, one of these days you will figure out why?

Doubt seriously you were around when Reagan was in office and probably a twinkle in your parents eye but the reality is he inherited a much worse economy than Obama where everyone suffered. He took his economic program to the people and the people loved it and the economic growth was the largest expansion in U.S. History. Figure out what the components are of GDP and get back to me. Maybe then you will stop making a fool of yourself with posts like this one.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

imagep said:
From what I understand, he spent our country into prosperity.
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Actually according to you he gave people free money for after all doesn't all money belong to the govt? You own a business? Wow
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487]

Fenton said:
Deficit spending under Obama is LOWER than it was under Bush ?


Honestly, how you can say that with a straight face is beyond me ?

Especially after the last 6 years.
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you do have to remember liberal math, increasing the debt by 1.7 trillion is a lot worse than increasing it by 6.8 trillion because the percentage change is better on the 6.8 trillion dollars. Debt service doesn't matter.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487]

Fenton said:
Lets look at it HONESTLY.

Obama signed 9 out of the 12 Spending appropriations bills from Pelosi's FY2009 Budget.

He then passed " Stimulus " ( a pay off to the Unions ) and then ran 3 Consecutive TRILLION dollar plus annual deficits.

So he lowered deficit spending from 1.3 Trillion down to 600 Billion for the years following ?

Big damn deal , it still equates to 6 trillion added to our debt in 5 years.

What are you trying to prove ?
Click to expand...

I am waiting for any liberal who claims the 2009 deficit was Bush's to show me the Bush signature on the passed budget? I have been waiting now for 6 years but all I get is rhetoric and the basic lies.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
Now this is scary and you claim to be a business owner? Wow, free money? Do you have any idea where that money came from that was rebated to you? I don't know many American workers who call getting some of their money back getting free money?
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It was free money to the people who received it. All you had to do was to file income taxes and you got the check. Imagine if I just mailed you a check, without demanding anything from you, you wouldn't consider that free money? If that ain't free money, I don't know what is.



Officially the recession ended in June 2009 long before those shovels ever got to the states for those shovel ready jobs. In fact some are still waiting for their shovels. The fact is this is the worst recovery ever from a recession and it has everything to do with the lack of leadership by someone who never led anything. Obama thinks he is a king and his every word makes a difference. He wasn't qualified in 2008 and after over 5 years on the job he still remains unqualified.
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It's very possible and even likely that the expectation of some economic recovery due to the spendulous bill did stimulate our economy. It's normally conservatives who point to uncertainty and expectations as a cause of a poor economy, I don't see why the expectations and security of the spendulous bill (to whatever extent it created that) couldn't have contributed to ending the recession. Regardless, with or without the spendulous bill, it's highly likely that the recession would have ended that same month or shortly after.

those on the left will almost always claim that the spendulous sped up recovery, those on the right will always deny such. We will never be able to prove one way or another.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

imagep said:
No one can consistantly predict the economic future of anything. Seems like everytime I focus in on a particular event or situation, and then try to make a projection of the future based upon that one factor, I am wrong about 50% of the time.

Of course when I am correct, I make claim to being an economic genius, and when I am incorrect, it's because of other factors which "distorted the market."
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I agree with that, since nobody has an absolute certainty of what the future holds. Things can change both rapidly and unpredictably in either direction.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
Reagan cut INCOME TAXES THREE YEARS IN A ROW!!!!! GET IT YET?? The taxes he raised were use taxes so if you didn't use the problem you didn't pay any more in taxes. ...
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He also significantly increased payroll withholding taxes (which he should have). Regardless of the excuses that you make for the increased taxes, those increases tended to offset the decreases. And the tax cuts benefited the wealthy far more than the middle class or poor.

As far as Reagan winning 49 states, he did indeed purchase a lot of votes between the tax cuts and the spending. he had a keen eye for making good political moves.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
Actually according to you he gave people free money for after all doesn't all money belong to the govt? You own a business? Wow
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No, that was Bush who did that. the money was essentially free to the people who got it, it was created by the fed and distributed to virtually everyone with no work or production in exchange. That meets my definition of free.

Money created from the fed never has to be repaid, the debt just keeps rolling over. it's our peculiar mechanism for creating money.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487]

Conservative said:
I am waiting for any liberal who claims the 2009 deficit was Bush's to show me the Bush signature on the passed budget? I have been waiting now for 6 years but all I get is rhetoric and the basic lies.
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I'm not a liberal, so I can answer that question...

2009 United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The United States federal budget for fiscal year 2009 began as a spending request submitted by President George W. Bush to the 110th Congress. The final resolution written and submitted by the 110th Congress to be forwarded to the President was approved by the House on June 5, 2008.[2] The final spending bills for the budget were not signed into law until March 11, 2009 by President Barack Obama, nearly five and a half months after the fiscal year began.
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So sure enough, Bush didn't sign it, but he did propose it. It was his concept, his baby. Obama did nothing but deliver it.

Which is part of the reason that I constantly point out that there is virtually no difference between our two major parties. The obama policies are 99% the same as the Bush policies.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

greatar4 said:
I agree with that, since nobody has an absolute certainty of what the future holds. Things can change both rapidly and unpredictably in either direction.
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Welcome to Debate Politics. It's nice to see someone else who is a reasonable independent, and who is not held ideologically hostage to whatever political club they claim.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

imagep said:
He also significantly increased payroll withholding taxes (which he should have). Regardless of the excuses that you make for the increased taxes, those increases tended to offset the decreases. And the tax cuts benefited the wealthy far more than the middle class or poor.

As far as Reagan winning 49 states, he did indeed purchase a lot of votes between the tax cuts and the spending. he had a keen eye for making good political moves.
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Yep, putting more money into savings and a retirement account certainly damaged the economy and hurt people. Guess 17 million jobs just isn't enough in your world which makes me wonder why Obama's job creation having less people employed today than when the recession began is to be applauded?

I find it quite disturbing that as a business owner you don't realize that even you worked for the money that the govt. gave you back thus it isn't free, it was earned. Further yes, people with more spendable income might just even help you and your business but who knows. You seem to continue to be looking for that "free money" that the govt. has. Wonder where they got it?

It is amazing how happy people were during the Reagan term and happy people seem to have voted with their wallets. That must drive liberals and people like you crazy. The more money people have the less need they have for big govt. programs.

By the way I suggest you learn what your taxes fund. Payroll taxes fund SS and Medicare which by the way are trillions in debt
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

imagep said:
No, that was Bush who did that. the money was essentially free to the people who got it, it was created by the fed and distributed to virtually everyone with no work or production in exchange. That meets my definition of free.

Money created from the fed never has to be repaid, the debt just keeps rolling over. it's our peculiar mechanism for creating money.
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That would be welfare, and I continue to be amazed that people got more of their tax money back and you call that free money. Tax credits are a reduction in the taxes people pay and thus allow people to keep more of what they earn. That of course is a bad thing in the liberal world.

The Reagan results speak for themselves. You want to tell me how tripling the debt which amounted to 1.7 trillion dollars that generated 17 million jobs, doubled GDP, grew Income tax revenue 40%, and created a peace dividend is a bad thing when that 1.7 trillion dollars was generated on a 5.2 TRILLION dollar economy??
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487]

imagep said:
I'm not a liberal, so I can answer that question...

2009 United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



So sure enough, Bush didn't sign it, but he did propose it. It was his concept, his baby. Obama did nothing but deliver it.

Which is part of the reason that I constantly point out that there is virtually no difference between our two major parties. The obama policies are 99% the same as the Bush policies.
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Yes, Bush proposed a budget that projected a 500 billion dollar deficit and if enacted would have generated a 500 billion dollar debt especially if the TARP money had been returned to the Treasury with the interest paid instead of being recycled. you see, Obama knew he would get his minions to blame Bush so rather than have a 500 billion debt he had a 1.8 trillion debt and blamed Bush for it.

Thanks for acknowledging that Bush didn't sign the 2009 budget therefore how could it be his deficit? Proposals mean nothing but If Obama didn't like the budget why did he sign it? when he signed it he accepted responsibility for the deficit he continues to blame Bush for.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
...

I find it quite disturbing that as a business owner you don't realize that even you worked for the money that the govt. gave you back thus it isn't free, it was earned.
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The free money checks were not based upon income taxes paid, so it's really not fair to pretend that they were tax rebates. They were indeed free money checks to the people who received them. If you sent me a check without asking anything from me in return, that would be free money to me. I fully recognize that there was a cost to you, but it is still free money to me.

Further yes, people with more spendable income might just even help you and your business but who knows.
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Any time that my customers have more money, it does help me. Thats why I support cutting taxes.

You seem to continue to be looking for that "free money" that the govt. has. Wonder where they got it?
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They printed it. Anyhow, I'm not advocating for free money, I expect to earn every penny that I get. I do not support subsidies or welfare.

It is amazing how happy people were during the Reagan term and happy people seem to have voted with their wallets. That must drive liberals and people like you crazy. The more money people have the less need they have for big govt. programs.
Click to expand...

Sure, Reagan bought lots of votes with his tax cuts and huge deficit spending. So did George Bush.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
That would be welfare, and I continue to be amazed that people got more of their tax money back and you call that free money. Tax credits are a reduction in the taxes people pay and thus allow people to keep more of what they earn. That of course is a bad thing in the liberal world.

The Reagan results speak for themselves. You want to tell me how tripling the debt which amounted to 1.7 trillion dollars that generated 17 million jobs, doubled GDP, grew Income tax revenue 40%, and created a peace dividend is a bad thing when that 1.7 trillion dollars was generated on a 5.2 TRILLION dollar economy??
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So if Obama was to announce that his newest economic stimulus program was to send out free money to everyone who filed an income tax form, regardless of if they paid any taxes or not, exactly like Bush did, you would support that?
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487]

Conservative said:
Yes, Bush proposed a budget that projected a 500 billion dollar deficit and if enacted would have generated a 500 billion dollar debt especially if the TARP money had been returned to the Treasury with the interest paid instead of being recycled. you see, Obama knew he would get his minions to blame Bush so rather than have a 500 billion debt he had a 1.8 trillion debt and blamed Bush for it.

Thanks for acknowledging that Bush didn't sign the 2009 budget therefore how could it be his deficit? Proposals mean nothing but If Obama didn't like the budget why did he sign it? when he signed it he accepted responsibility for the deficit he continues to blame Bush for.
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Historically the budget year starting under one president is always counted as his spending. Now you are trying to change the previously accepted attribution policy because it doesn't fit your agenda. I'm sure I'm not the only one seeing that. And it works great for you, because you can now count Clintons budget year, when we ran a slight surplus, in Bush's success.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487]

imagep said:
Historically the budget year starting under one president is always counted as his spending. Now you are trying to change the previously accepted attribution policy because it doesn't fit your agenda. I'm sure I'm not the only one seeing that. And it works great for you, because you can now count Clintons budget year, when we ran a slight surplus, in Bush's success.
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If it is signed and passed yes it would be Bush's spending but it wasn't. The fiscal year of the U.S. runs from October to September so you must be telling me that Bush spent all that money from October, 2008 to January 21, 2009 then accept your error and admit it is Obama's spending and thus Obama's deficit?
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

imagep said:
The free money checks were not based upon income taxes paid, so it's really not fair to pretend that they were tax rebates. They were indeed free money checks to the people who received them. If you sent me a check without asking anything from me in return, that would be free money to me. I fully recognize that there was a cost to you, but it is still free money to me.

Any time that my customers have more money, it does help me. Thats why I support cutting taxes.



They printed it. Anyhow, I'm not advocating for free money, I expect to earn every penny that I get. I do not support subsidies or welfare.



Sure, Reagan bought lots of votes with his tax cuts and huge deficit spending. So did George Bush.
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Look, I don't believe you have a clue how our govt works, where did the "free money" come from? The govt. printed it? Prove it

Here is the statement and the rebate checks and yes it was based upon income earned and came out of income tax revenue

T
he package will pay $600 to most individual taxpayers and $1,200 to married taxpayers filing joint returns, so long as they are below income caps of $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for couples. There is also a $300 per child tax credit
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If you don't pay taxes you didn't get a rebate thus there is nothing free about this money
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487]

Conservative said:
If it is signed and passed yes it would be Bush's spending but it wasn't. The fiscal year of the U.S. runs from October to September so you must be telling me that Bush spent all that money from October, 2008 to January 21, 2009 then accept your error and admit it is Obama's spending and thus Obama's deficit?
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Bush set the budget into action.

Regardless, that all time record deficit was much more because of the decline in tax revenue than it was an increase in spending. Now are you going to blame the decline in tax revenues on Obama also? Or did the Great Bush Recession have anything to do with it.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487]

imagep said:
Bush set the budget into action.

Regardless, that all time record deficit was much more because of the decline in tax revenue than it was an increase in spending. Now are you going to blame the decline in tax revenues on Obama also? Or did the Great Bush Recession have anything to do with it.
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Bush made a proposal, it was rejected by Congress. Continuing resolutions were passed by Congress at 2008 spending levels and income levels. There was no 2009 budget until Obama signed it in March 2009. You are having a problem admitting that you are wrong, the question is why?
 
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