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Measles Hits Amish Communities, And U.S. Cases Reach 20-Year High

soot said:
I disagree.

This is Darwin at his finest.

Want to be an idiot?

Fine, you go right ahead.

When Mother Nature steps in and wipes out your stupidity don't come crying to us.

I've been vaccinated, my kids have been vaccinated, what do I care if folks want to be dumbasses?
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Not everyone can be vaccinated.

And when an old disease (or any disease) finds a new unprotected population, it can mutate to become more virulent. The more 'food,' the more likelihood of that happening.

And old disease in a population that has been exposed before or vaccinated remains non-lethal in order to survive by maintaining its host population.
 
Tettsuo said:
Deaths from measles is extremely rare... so please, hold off with the hyperbolic nonsense.
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Not in the young and elderly and those with compromised immune systems...the demographics also most likely to become ill.
 
year2late said:
The communicability of AIDS and measles are quite different.
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Yes, and the effects are also different between the two. My response is related to having the government forcing a course of action on people to prevent either one. Would HIV have spread as rapidly if people with HIV were isolated? I'm wasn't advocating for that, but you have to admit that it was discussed as a course of action.
 
Tettsuo said:
I see, so the rest of us should risk the complications that MMR vaccine can have to protect a very small number of people that have those specific issues.

Btw, here's the CDC's list of the MMR vaccines side effects:

Vaccines: Vac-Gen/Side Effects
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This was the part I saw:

These are so rare that it is hard to tell whether they are caused by the vaccine.
This information was taken directly from the MMR VIS
(This information taken from MMR VIS dated 4/20/12.

Before vaccination you can consult with a doctor. There are allergy sensitivity tests for starters. If you or child has immune system issues, there are also alternatives to some

a) vaccines

b) vaccine delivery methods
 
Lursa said:
Not in the young and elderly and those with compromised immune systems...the demographics also most likely to become ill.
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And even they were extremely unlike to die from the measles or even suffer severe complications.

This is measles, not ebola.
 
Tettsuo said:
Clearly I understand what you're saying. Do you understand what I'm saying? There are risks involved for the person receiving the vaccine. Do you believe the risk/reward equation is great enough to mandate the MMR vaccine on people that don't want to take the risk involved with receiving the vaccine?
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Those risks are on an individual level and in some cases can be prevented and often remedied if they occur.

The risks of a disease circulating thru a population opens more opportunities for that disease to:

--mutate into something more dangerous (the opposite happens in protected/immune populations which encourage mutation into less-virulent forms)

--go 'underground' at non-lethal levels in human reservoirs and break out periodically
 
Tettsuo said:
And even they were extremely unlike to die from the measles or even suffer severe complications.

This is measles, not ebola.
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Again, it is infants, elderly, and those with compromised immune systems that DO die. Is that a risk you'd want to take for a family member? Near death? High fevers cause permanent brain damage in people, esp. infants.

And as I've written, there are risks in a disease circulating thru a population in greater and greater numbers.
 
Deuce said:
I care that their dumbass choice endangers their children, and others. My niece isn't old enough for all the recommended vaccines yet. Unvaccinated people put her in greater danger, and that makes me a tad ornery.
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What others, certainly not anyone vaccinated?
 
Lursa said:
Again, it is infants, elderly, and those with compromised immune systems that DO die. Is that a risk you'd want to take for a family member? Near death? High fevers cause permanent brain damage in people, esp. infants.
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You mean just like the risks the vaccine itself presents?
 
Tettsuo said:
I'll concede that point. 25% is very extreme. How about 1%? If it hits that level, we can start talking about forced vaccinations.
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Forced vaccinations would not fly under the constitution. Either move to someplace where they are mandatory or change the constitution. These are your options.

BTW, I am vaccinated, so is my wife, so is our daughter.
 
Tettsuo said:
I see, you didn't actually read the adverse reaction list. Let me repost it for you.



The last three are inconclusive as being directly linked to the MMR, but they are still listed.

Why are you discounting all of these problems as not serious?
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Are you just not reading what I write? They are so rare as to be almost unheard of. The most common of those is the serious allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) which is a less than one in a million incidence rate. The others are so rare that you could probably find each individual case. The other two are temporary ailments that are exceedingly rare associated with fever they are not a severe problem which is why your own link doesn't classify it as a severe problem.

I'll repeat that there are virtually no serious problems associated with the vaccine and that society has a compelling interest in retaining herd immunity.
 
Have the Amish build a big prison in the Philippines, then lock them inside.

Sorry Amish, the "good old days" you want to live in, included all kinds of nasty diseases. The civilized grownups of this world came up with vaccines and wiped them out.

Till you a**hats showed up.

You don't get to come back until you served your quarantine, and are vaccinated.
 
Tettsuo said:
Deaths from measles is extremely rare... so please, hold off with the hyperbolic nonsense.
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Key facts
Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available.
In 2012, there were 122 000 measles deaths globally – about 330 deaths every day or 14 deaths every hour.
Measles vaccination resulted in a 78% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2012 worldwide.
In 2012, about 84% of the world's children received one dose of measles vaccine by their first birthday through routine health services – up from 72% in 2000.
Since 2000, more than 1 billion children in high risk countries were vaccinated against the disease through mass vaccination campaigns ― about 145 million of them in 2012.
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WHO | Measles
 
Sherman123 said:
Are you just not reading what I write? They are so rare as to be almost unheard of. The most common of those is the serious allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) which is a less than one in a million incidence rate. The others are so rare that you could probably find each individual case. The other two are temporary ailments that are exceedingly rare associated with fever they are not a severe problem which is why your own link doesn't classify it as a severe problem.

I'll repeat that there are virtually no serious problems associated with the vaccine and that society has a compelling interest in retaining herd immunity.
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I could ask the same of you.

Moderate Problems
Seizure (jerking or staring) caused by fever (about 1 out of 3,000 doses) - Are you suggesting that someone having a seizure is not a serious problem?
Temporary pain and stiffness in the joints, mostly in teenage or adult women (up to 1 out of 4)
Temporary low platelet count, which can cause a bleeding disorder (about 1 out of 30,000 doses) - Are you suggesting that having a bleeding disorder is not a serious problem?

Severe Problems (Very Rare)
Serious allergic reaction (less than 1 out of a million doses)
Several other severe problems have been reported after a child gets MMR vaccine, including:
Deafness
Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness
Permanent brain damage

What exactly is a serious problem to you then? Does it square with the very rare complications that occur when someone contracts measles (which is also a rarity)?
 
beefheart said:
Have the Amish build a big prison in the Philippines, then lock them inside.

Sorry Amish, the "good old days" you want to live in, included all kinds of nasty diseases. The civilized grownups of this world came up with vaccines and wiped them out.

Till you a**hats showed up.

You don't get to come back until you served your quarantine, and are vaccinated.
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Once an Amish or Mennonite presents to an emergency room, and they do fairly regularly, they are under the rules of the US of A. They can be reported for neglect, isolated if they have not been vaccinated, and any number of things to protect others. As long as they stay on the farm, they can do what they want. But what most people don't seem to be aware of is that they shop at Walmart and mingle with the rest of us just like those who have had their vaccinations.
 
Maenad said:
WHO | Measles
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How many of them were in the USA?

If the point of this whole thread was how irresponsible the Amish were in going to the Phillipenes (religion apparently shouldn't be travelling, according to the OP), then I hope everyone who is railing against the Amish in this thread would advocate closing our borders to prevent any visitors from coming in, because apparently measles is common everywhere.
 
tres borrachos said:
How many of them were in the USA?

If the point of this whole thread was how irresponsible the Amish were in going to the Phillipenes (religion apparently shouldn't be travelling, according to the OP), then I hope everyone who is railing against the Amish in this thread would advocate closing our borders to prevent any visitors from coming in, because apparently measles is common everywhere.
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According to recent data, none, but in reality we don't know how many in the US actually had measles. The fact remains that it can be a deadly disease and that is why a vaccine was developed for it.
 
Tettsuo said:
122,000 deaths globally compared to over 7 billion people living on Earth.

Yeah... rare as rare can be.
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For the ones who died, it was 100%. Just sayin'.
 
Maenad said:
For the ones who died, it was 100%. Just sayin'.
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Do you feel that same way for those that died from vaccines?

I'm just sayin' as well.

You risk one for the other. My question remains, is it worth it? Both are dangerous and trading the life of one child to save another isn't worth it to me to start crowing about forced vaccinations.
 
Maenad said:
According to recent data, none, but in reality we don't know how many in the US actually had measles. The fact remains that it can be a deadly disease and that is why a vaccine was developed for it.
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My kids are all vaccinated, and so are my husband & I. But it was our choice.

I don't see how this Amish situation is indicative of a national crisis, and I certainly don't subscribe to the idea that they should be attacked (as some in here are). I saw a religious dig in the OP, intentional or otherwise.
 
Tettsuo said:
Do you feel that same way for those that died from vaccines?

I'm just sayin' as well.

You risk one for the other. My question remains, is it worth it? Both are dangerous and trading the life of one child to save another isn't worth it.
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You are in denial about how serious measles is:

Measles can be prevented by the combination MMR (measles, mumps, and rubella) vaccine. In the decade before the measles vaccination program began, an estimated 3–4 million people in the United States were infected each year, of whom 400–500 died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and another 1,000 developed chronic disability from measles encephalitis.
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CDC - Measles: Vaccination

As far as the vaccine goes, any medicine carries with it the risk of death. You cannot argue that it is just measles vaccine because any foreign substance you put in your body can cause a deadly reaction.
 
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