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Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

But many aren't, just like in other cultures. Some live by the golden rule and some don't, but it has little to do with whether a person is Christian or not as to whether they do or don't live by it.

You seem to assume that being Christian puts someone automatically at a better place or with a higher willingness to live by the Golden Rule. There is absolutely no proof of this.

There might be if we looked at the difference between Christian influenced nations and those without it. The difference seems to be that those with a Christian background seem to be more influenced by human rights and freedoms than those without. As Christianity seems to be waning in the West we'll see if this brings any significant changes.
 
There might be if we looked at the difference between Christian influenced nations and those without it. The difference seems to be that those with a Christian background seem to be more influenced by human rights and freedoms than those without. As Christianity seems to be waning in the West we'll see if this brings any significant changes.

No. The beliefs about freedom and human rights simply evolved within societies that had many Christians within them. Christianity did not cause those ideals to develop, it simply was there in the same place that that they did.
 
There might be if we looked at the difference between Christian influenced nations and those without it. The difference seems to be that those with a Christian background seem to be more influenced by human rights and freedoms than those without. As Christianity seems to be waning in the West we'll see if this brings any significant changes.

Right, because when you're talking about human rights, Christian nations like Spain under Franco, Chile under Pinochet, and Russia under Stalin had stellar records.
 
Small communities of most religions or even nonreligious people do it better. In general, the problem with most religious people and their application of the Golden Rule is that they only want to apply it to those who believe as they do.

Then they are obviously not following The Golden Rule.

If you fail to accept that your beliefs are not universally accepted or think they should be, then that automatically puts your beliefs counter to the Golden Rule because it is not likely that you would want another religion or group of people telling you what you should believe or what you should feel is morally right or wrong. Yet, many Christians live their lives by doing this, and claim it as part of their religion. They don't even recognize that this mindset directly violates the Golden Rule.
The Golden Rule, to me, should be personal and although I think it should be taught in schools I don't proselytize myself because I am riddled with imperfections. All of what I am saying is from observation only and it should not be construed that I am a good Christian or even a Christian. And the truth is that i find those who argue against Christianity (as I once did) to be as much of a pain in the ass as those who are in your face for it.
 
Right, because when you're talking about human rights, Christian nations like Spain under Franco, Chile under Pinochet, and Russia under Stalin had stellar records.

Franco was a Fascist and that overrides any feelings he made have had towards the teachings of Christ. Pinochet took over, luckily, from an atheist and of course Stalin was no Christian either.
 
No. The beliefs about freedom and human rights simply evolved within societies that had many Christians within them. Christianity did not cause those ideals to develop, it simply was there in the same place that that they did.

I shall be a Christian in this instance and say that your knowledge of history is incomplete.
 
Franco was a Fascist and that overrides any feelings he made have had towards the teachings of Christ. Pinochet took over, luckily, from an atheist and of course Stalin was no Christian either.

Do I hear bagpipes?
 
No. I am focusing on the attempted arguments to make Christianity better than any other religion or beliefs. It is ridiculous. Christianity is not better just because so many people in the US believe in it.
Millions, many millions around the world, are Christian. You think it is only common in the United States??
And many Christians (although I think this is changing for the better) violate the Golden Rule in relation to many other humans.
Of course.

One of the most obvious examples is homosexuals. Many Christians treat homosexuals like crap, even some who are "nice" to them because of those Christian's beliefs. Most Christians would not want to be told that their beliefs will get them to a negative place, yet those same people do not see it as wrong for them to tell others this. Another example is the insistence that those who aren't Christian will go to hell or go somewhere negative in death. Sure, other religions do this too, but that doesn't mean it is consistent with the Golden Rule for any of them.
How often does it need explaining that calling yourself a Christian doesn't really make you one. It might be an aspiration but there also might be, or likely be, failings along the line.
 
When the President takes the oath of office, he swears on the Bible to uphold the Constitution. He doesn't swear on the Constitution to uphold the Bible.
 
When the President takes the oath of office, he swears on the Bible to uphold the Constitution. He doesn't swear on the Constitution to uphold the Bible.

The fact that the Bible is even INVOLVED when a President takes office kind of hurts your argument, no?
 
Why would it be so difficult for Barrack Obama to defend Christian values? Are you suggesting he's a Muslim and not a Christian?

Er, no. I'm pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of Republicans' claiming that he should "defend Christian values" while these same Republicans have fallen way short of such standards.
 
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I read someplace in the New Tea Party coloring book version of the US Constitution that presidents must defend Christian values as opposed to the Constitution itself.

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Available at Amazon.:lamo
 
Franco was a Fascist and that overrides any feelings he made have had towards the teachings of Christ. Pinochet took over, luckily, from an atheist and of course Stalin was no Christian either.

None of the dictators were very Christian, but those are nations with a Christian tradition.
 
Millions, many millions around the world, are Christian. You think it is only common in the United States??
Of course.

Millions, many millions around the world, are Muslim too. You think numbers makes a religion righteous?
 
Then they are obviously not following The Golden Rule.

The Golden Rule, to me, should be personal and although I think it should be taught in schools I don't proselytize myself because I am riddled with imperfections. All of what I am saying is from observation only and it should not be construed that I am a good Christian or even a Christian. And the truth is that i find those who argue against Christianity (as I once did) to be as much of a pain in the ass as those who are in your face for it.

And this is the problem. You are talking about you here but seem to think that all Christians or at least most Christians behave this way. It simply isn't true. Plus, you seem to believe that arguing against Christianity is the same as not following the Golden Rule. That again isn't true. A person can share their feelings about why they do not believe in a certain religion without being disrespectful.
 
Millions, many millions around the world, are Christian. You think it is only common in the United States??
Of course.

How often does it need explaining that calling yourself a Christian doesn't really make you one. It might be an aspiration but there also might be, or likely be, failings along the line.

First of all, I never said Christians are only found in the US. I mentioned the US because it is US politicians calling for other US politicians to defend Christianity (despite Christianity not needing anymore defending than any other faith, in general). We, as a country, do not live by "Christian values". Many of us live by values, some which happen to be found within the Christian religion, as those values are also found within other religions and even just philosophies around the world.

Second, calling yourself a Christian is the only way for others to determine if you are Christian or not. Otherwise, there would be no true Christians, since everyone falls short. We don't know what's in a person's heart. But the only thing that really says whether a person is a Christian or not is that they believe that Jesus is the way to reach Heaven or know God. That is it. Bad Christians are still Christians. You don't get to discount them just because you don't want to be associated with them.
 
I shall be a Christian in this instance and say that your knowledge of history is incomplete.

No it isn't. Many of the ideals we use came from other cultures that existed prior to Christianity, including Ancient Rome and Greece. Intelligent people added to those ideals, working to make a country that was truly for all people. But belief in Christianity did not cause those beliefs.

The biggest thing that seems to lead to the values of freedom and rights for common people is not Christianity or any other religion for that matter. It is reason, and groups of people who are being treated differently for what they believe in, or how they look, or what class they were born into, and don't like it. Once people start using reason to think through things, they come to realize that there is no reason why a single person or a small group of people should have power over other people and be treated better. Eventually, this reasoning, along with human compassion, leads to looking at the other side as well and seeing how other people should not be treated worse just due to things such as the color of their skin or their gender.
 
The fact that the Bible is even INVOLVED when a President takes office kind of hurts your argument, no?

It is tradition. A President does not have to use the Bible. The reason it has been that the President has is based on his personal belief systems and our belief that oaths are better made when connected to a personal belief system rather than just made. Unfortunately, there would be some massive outrage right now if they didn't because so many people want to believe the myth that we are a "Christian nation", rather than just a nation with a lot of Christians. Just like when I reenlist, God is mentioned in the oath. I can choose to have the oath changed to omit the "so help me God" part. History has led to us having many traditions that are rooted in Christianity, but those traditions are not requirements.
 
wrong religious freedoms are garenteed in the constutition which would include christian values. so yes they should be defende along with other religious freedoms. if you don't think we should defend religious freedoms then that is a different argument.

So your was for a Muslim Cultural Center near the World Trade Center site?

If you read the 1st Amendment- so many 'authorities' don't- 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;'

The 1st quite simply prohibits the Federal government from creating a 'State Religion' or denying any religion the ability to set up a place of worship and allow citizens free access.

I'm always curious what a poster means by defending christian values, and then a vague wave of the hand to other religion's values....

Does one 'defend' Christian values by enforcing a religion's opinion on abortion, gay marriage, polygamy, divorce on the nation? What happens when Christian values conflict with another religions, such as Orthodox Judaism or Sharia law?

Should Bible burners be charged with a crime? How about Qu'ran burners?

I'd say the Founders were very clever in stopping where they did and not making mention of 'values' in the Constitution... that should keep us on the proper path, Insha'Allah.... :peace
 
First of all, I never said Christians are only found in the US. I mentioned the US because it is US politicians calling for other US politicians to defend Christianity (despite Christianity not needing anymore defending than any other faith, in general). We, as a country, do not live by "Christian values". Many of us live by values, some which happen to be found within the Christian religion, as those values are also found within other religions and even just philosophies around the world.

Could there be a more uninformed, harsh, and just plain wrong statement than what you posted here??? I think not.
 
The fact that the Bible is even INVOLVED when a President takes office kind of hurts your argument, no?

No, because the President is placing the Constitution above the Bible when swearing in. He has a duty to it, not the Bible.
 
Leading Republicans on Thursday insisted that America's leaders must do more to defend Christian values at home and abroad, blaming President Barack Obama for attacks on religious freedom as they courted religious conservatives expected to play a crucial role in the next presidential contest.

Read more of this article here: http://news.yahoo.com/republicans-obama-must-defend-christian-values-192212780




If these guys had said that Obama must defend America's 1st Amendment values they would have had my and a lot of other peoples support.

I don't believe that this will win many elections for them.

BTW: if anyone can point out where it says in the U.S. Constitution that defending Christian values is the presidents job, I'd like to see it.

This sounds like a bunch of far right religious malarkey to me.




"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch, running out of time, GOP

republicans claim to want to bring democray to the other parts of the world but they hate to see it in USA
 
republicans claim to want to bring democray to the other parts of the world but they hate to see it in USA

The USA is a republic primarily - not a democracy.
 
Could there be a more uninformed, harsh, and just plain wrong statement than what you posted here??? I think not.

Okay, I'll bite. What part of her post that you quoted do you think is so wrong?
 
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