Patent office cancels Redskins trademarks

radcen said:

For the most part I don't see blacks or Hispanics getting all worked up over this issue. I suspect that the percentage of white people offended by the term is larger than the percentage of Native Americans. Hence, this is a textbook example of: White Liberal Guilt

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Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Deuce said:

Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

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I actually have done that to a friend of mine, he called me a honkey, we laughed and moved on. In fact I have done this with numerous friends calling them n****, chi**, and tow****** respectively. Big people can get over Little Words. So Native Americans stop letting little words hurt you, and just be Bigger People.

Deuce said:

Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

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Sure, if he was playing for the team.

MasterLiberty said:

I actually have done that to a friend of mine, he called me a honkey, we laughed and moved on. In fact I have done this with numerous friends calling them n****, chi**, and tow****** respectively. Big people can get over Little Words. So Native Americans stop letting little words hurt you, and just be Bigger People.

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Is this the same as your gay friend who told you about the big secret gay agenda to destroy marriage?

Misterveritis said:

Sure, if he was playing for the team.

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An interesting dodge.

MasterLiberty said:

I actually have done that to a friend of mine, he called me a honkey, we laughed and moved on. In fact I have done this with numerous friends calling them n****, chi**, and tow****** respectively. Big people can get over Little Words. So Native Americans stop letting little words hurt you, and just be Bigger People.

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Yeah... tell someone that's not already a friend of yours then get back to us. You framed the context as it is not represented in this case.

poweRob said:

Yeah... tell someone that's not already a friend of yours then get back to us. You framed the context as it is not represented in this case.

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AHHH GOTCHA. You just said that CONTEXT matters, and yes I agree. So how can the context of this being an Athletic Club's name be construed as offensive? The club, its players, and its fans take pride in the name "Redskin" as it connotes the POWER, and FEROCITY, and PRIDE of the native american nation and thus is NOT being used in the CONTEXT of a racial slur. ;-) game, set, match.

MasterLiberty said:

AHHH GOTCHA. You just said that CONTEXT matters, and yes I agree. So how can the context of this being an Athletic Club's name be construed as offensive? The club, its players, and its fans take pride in the name "Redskin" as it connotes the POWER, and FEROCITY, and PRIDE of the native american nation and thus is NOT being used in the CONTEXT of a racial slur. ;-) game, set, match.

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Why don't you ask the people that are offended by it? Also what's hilarious is you pretend to know intent of everyone. Amazing!

And while you're at it, your complete dodge of what I said definitely shows how easily you forfeited said match.

Just going to add a little levity here, and I'm saying from the start this is sarcastic and I don't actually think it should happen....But in honor of one of the greatest rivalries in sports, I'll say this:

If the Redskins must change their name then it's only natural that the Cowboys, as well, need to change theirs as it's history is that of a derogatory slur towards black people.

Contrary to the images created by Hollywood, black slaves were America’s first authentic cowboys. The word “cowboy,” in fact originally had nothing to do with roping cattle and hell-raising in the high plains. The word “cowboy” grew out of social customs that did not allow black males to be addressed as “mister” or “men,” especially “gentlemen” or any other title that conveyed status. Fifty years before there was an American Southwest, cowboy, with the diminutive (extremely or unusually small) term “boy,” was a constant derogatory term for a black male, that included not only “cowboy,” but house boy,” “field boy,” “stable boy,” and “under boy,” (personal body servants during the Civil War).

After the Civil War, new land rush laws sparked the westward movement,Fifteen million new European immigrants arrived in the latter part of the 1800′s, but the ranching and cattle industry of the Southwest, especially along the Texas Gulf Coast, was wholly dependent on black labor. Many of the slaves served as cowboys who drove cattle north from Texas between 1866 and 1895 were black.

Source: Dirty Little Secrets About Black History, its Heroes, And Other Troublemakers (1997) By Dr. Claud Anderson

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If it is true, which apparently it is in this case, that the team sought out the approval of Indian tribes when they were naming the team, who should pay for the name change if people now are offended?

Is the team responsible for changing times, or even more to the point, changing people?

A small minority want the name change, so shouldn't they foot the bill if they are the ones that are offended?

poweRob said:

Yeah... tell someone that's not already a friend of yours then get back to us. You framed the context as it is not represented in this case.

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Why are you trying to imply that the word Redskins is a common term to refer to an Indian?

Mason66 said:

If it is true, which apparently it is in this case, that the team sought out the approval of Indian tribes when they were naming the team, who should pay for the name change if people now are offended?

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1. I may need to go back and check on the team history, but I believe the top guy of the NCAI was consulted in helping design the indian head logo, but he was acting on his own (not on behalf of the congress). I don't think there was any real consultation that went into the actual NAME though.

2. This is one of the problems with so much of this debate, on both sides. The common talk of native americans as one conglomarate group. It'd be like multiplying European countries by 5 or more and then treating them all as one universal entity. I believe I recent heard that there is over 500 seperate native american tribes recognized in the United States of America alone. Even the largest advocacy group, the NCAI, represents only roughly 30% of them. The history, traditions, culture, etc of each tribe can be entirely different than another tribe.

What this means to your point is that even if the Team had gotten approval from some native american tribes when they made the name, it wouldn't really matter. No one tribe or even group of tribes speaks for all native americans, and it's entirely plausible for something to bother one tribe and not another (For example, the Oneida Indian Nation has many who are strongly opposed, while many in the Patawomeck Tribe support it with some expressing offense IF it was changed).

So while I think the notion that the name needs to change is ridiculous, I don't see any reason why any particular tribe or tribes should be forced to front the cost of such a change.

The more I look the more I think you're mixing it up with the logo Mason. Though here's some info regarding the logo's creation:

Walter “Blackie” Wetzel was Don’s father, a Blackfeet Nation political leader who a half-century ago was the president of the National Congress of American Indians. Blackie, who was a great athlete in his day, became well-acquainted with Montana leaders like Mike Mansfield and Lee Metcalf.

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In the early 1970s, Blackie approached ownership of the Redskins and proposed designing a helmet logo. “He did it the right way,” said Don. “It wasn’t some thrown together, fly-by-night deal. It’s something that represents the Red Nation in a positive way.” And, he said, it doesn’t matter if many see it as offensive. "Here’s the deal,” Don said. “Blackie was a smart egg. He called in leaders from other tribes and they worked on it a long time. They modeled it after the likeness on the ‘Buffalo Head nickel.’ ”

Don, a great athlete himself at Cut Bank and the University of Montana who later coached high school and college basketball, recalled the reaction his father received when unveiling the new logo. “They said it was perfect,” he said. Don’t suggest to Don Wetzel that the logo, or Redskins nickname for that manner, is derogatory whatsoever. “No, no, no, no,” he said.

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SOURCE

Zyphlin said:

The more I look the more I think you're mixing it up with the logo Mason. Though here's some info regarding the logo's creation:



SOURCE

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Wait...and this is not being rhetorical or sarcastic in the least. Is that source stating that the very Redskins logo...the one in question as claimed as BEING racist...was in fact designed by and sanctioned by Indians?

VanceMack said:

Wait...and this is not being rhetorical or sarcastic in the least. Is that source stating that the very Redskins logo...the one in question as claimed as BEING racist...was in fact designed by and sanctioned by Indians?

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What's the Indian equivalent for "Uncle Tom"?

And, yes, I am being sarcastic.

radcen said:

What's the Indian equivalent for "Uncle Tom"?

And, yes, I am being sarcastic.

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That being the case...you would think changing the name would be disrespectful to Indians???

VanceMack said:

That being the case...you would think changing the name would be disrespectful to Indians???

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One would think.

Now, presuming this is accurate, I can hear it now... "Well, a minority of people don't speak for everybody."

Right, they don't. Now turn that around.

VanceMack said:

Wait...and this is not being rhetorical or sarcastic in the least. Is that source stating that the very Redskins logo...the one in question as claimed as BEING racist...was in fact designed by and sanctioned by Indians?

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No.

It's claiming that THIS logo...



...was designed by a former president of the National Congress of American Indians and was submitted to multiple tribes that were part of the NCAI for input.

While there are some who find offense with that logo (Those who suggest ANY use of native americans in sports franchises is wrong), the primary complaints regarding the Redskins centers around their name and the logos that utilize the name such as this one:

Mosby said:

How can you have a sports team named after the American Indian in 2014? I am not at all offended by the name, I object to the hypocrisy. There is no other race or ethnicity that has a major sports team named after them. If there were teams like the "Boston Blacks" or the "Cleveland Caucasians" or the "Jersey Jews" or the "Houston Hispanics" complete with caricatures similar to the Cleveland Indians "Chief Wahoo" mascot, people everywhere would lose their mind over it. They'd go berserk. Why the American Indian is allowed to have a team named after their race/ethnicity while others are protected is the ultimate pinnacle of hypocrisy.

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There are plenty of teams named after iconic groups of humans.

Patriots
Steelers
Chiefs
Raiders
Cowboys
Packers
Saints
Bucs
49ers

Redskin is not a race. Its a word for an iconic group of humans, native american warriors of the 19th century.

Zyphlin said:

No.

It's claiming that THIS logo...

...was designed by a former president of the National Congress of American Indians and was submitted to multiple tribes that were part of the NCAI for input.

While there are some who find offense with that logo (Those who suggest ANY use of native americans in sports franchises is wrong), the primary complaints regarding the Redskins centers around their name and the logos that utilize the name such as this one:

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I just think that should be make this whole thing an open and shut case...but thats me. I knew a bit about the nickname being chosen in honor of a coach who was an Indian...but the fact that they sought the Indian nations input for both the design AND approval...and that THEY THEMSELVES created it and approved it as a symbol of honor...

Zyphlin said:

No.

It's claiming that THIS logo...

...was designed by a former president of the National Congress of American Indians and was submitted to multiple tribes that were part of the NCAI for input.

While there are some who find offense with that logo (Those who suggest ANY use of native americans in sports franchises is wrong), the primary complaints regarding the Redskins centers around their name and the logos that utilize the name such as this one:

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I think they stole it

radcen said:

What's the Indian equivalent for "Uncle Tom"?

And, yes, I am being sarcastic.

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Uncle Tom-tom?

Wiki? Where else?

Mason66 said:

If it is true, which apparently it is in this case, that the team sought out the approval of Indian tribes when they were naming the team, who should pay for the name change if people now are offended?

Is the team responsible for changing times, or even more to the point, changing people?

A small minority want the name change, so shouldn't they foot the bill if they are the ones that are offended?

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It was native American Indians that first used the tewrm "redskins" and it had no negative connotations then.

"According to , early historical records indicate that "Redskin" was used as a self-identifier by Native Americans to differentiate between the two races."

Are You Ready For Some Controversy? The History Of 'Redskin' : Code Switch : NPR

Mason66 said:

Why are you trying to imply that the word Redskins is a common term to refer to an Indian?

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oh I don't know... history? The logo on the side of the helmet seems to back this up as well.

I'm not implying anything. I'm citing fact.

It is slang for Native American.

We seem to have competing facts.

And in a political debate forum. Who'da thunk it?

jonny5 said:

There are plenty of teams named after iconic groups of humans.

Patriots
Steelers
Chiefs
Raiders
Cowboys
Packers
Saints
Bucs
49ers

Redskin is not a race. Its a word for an iconic group of humans, native american warriors of the 19th century.

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"Redskin" REFERS to a race. "RED-SKIN" Get it? The logo is a caricature of a Native American.

ZERO of those you listed has any inkling of the same racial characterization. In fact, your list is laughable. "Saints, Packers, Steelers" etc. Please.