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IRS: So… Our Computer Crashed And Erased All Of Lois Lerner’s Emails

Grim17 said:
1. In December 2009, it was announced that the e-mails were found.
2. They were actually recovered while Bush was still in office, but nobody ran the story.
3. Their loss stemmed from a failure to install a properly working electronic record keeping system.
4. That system apparently mislabeled the emails, which is why they were "lost".
5. The Administration was aware of the problem in 2003, before they were ever requested by anyone and more than 2 years before it was made public.
6. In October 2003, the Administration called technicians from Microsoft to help them find the electronic messages.

Millions of missing Bush admin. e-mails found - politics | NBC News
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what about the intentional use of the RNC.com email to avoid having the white house email available for the archives
 
justabubba said:
when the IG who investigated the matter was asked if he found any indications of unlawful behavior, he said none were evident
which statement is in stark contrast to your unsupportable allegation of illegal activity
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LOL !!

So he had access to the " Lost Emails " ?

Some investigation.
 
justabubba said:
what about the intentional use of the RNC.com email to avoid having the white house email available for the archives
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What does that have to do with the topic?

Nothing... Thats what.

Progressive_debate_tactics_sm.jpg
 
Grim17 said:
What does that have to do with the topic?

Nothing... Thats what.

View attachment 67168349
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it demonstrates the hypocrisy of those who complain now but were silent then, when the dicknbush administration intentionally concealed its emails from scrutiny
 
justabubba said:
it demonstrates the hypocrisy of those who complain now but were silent then, when the dicknbush administration intentionally concealed its emails from scrutiny
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I thought it demonstrated that they were 2 different issues, that you all failed to post those facts in an effort to pretend they were the same, and of course, to try and change the subject just as every progressive does.
 
Grim17 said:
1. In December 2009, it was announced that the e-mails were found.
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Yes. That to a lawsuit issued by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington and the National Security Archive who sued over the issue in 2007, arguing the Bush administration violated federal laws that require presidential records to be preserved.

Millions of Bush administration e-mails recovered - CNN.com


2. They were actually recovered while Bush was still in office, but nobody ran the story.
3. Their loss stemmed from a failure to install a properly working electronic record keeping system.
4. That system apparently mislabeled the emails, which is why they were "lost".
5. The Administration was aware of the problem in 2003, before they were ever requested by anyone and more than 2 years before it was made public.
6. In October 2003, the Administration called technicians from Microsoft to help them find the electronic messages.
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Not that I have read:

Court records have shown that the Bush administration knew about the e-mail problems as far back as 2005 and did nothing to fix them, Sloan said.
"They never made an effort to restore them," she said.

and:

Top aides to President George W. Bush seemed unconcerned amid multiple warnings as early as 2002 that the White House risked losing millions of e-mails that federal law required them to preserve, according to an extensive report obtained by The Federal Eye and set for release on Monday.


and:

Problems first arose when an e-mail recordkeeping system established during Bill Clinton's presidency failed to archive messages sent by the Bush White House as it started converting e-mail accounts from Lotus Notes to the Microsoft Exchange Program, the report said.

The White House Office of Administration and National Archives warned top Bush officials about the glitch and potential loss of e-mails, but were ordered to continue with the conversion, the report said.

"It wasn't like it was a one-time event and they went out and fixed it," said CREW senior counsel Adam Rappaport.

The Office of Administration later proposed a plan to fully restore the missing e-mails in 2005, but White House Counsel Harriet E. Miers rejected the plan, according to the report. Miers did not return requests for comment.



Federal Eye - New report details loss of Bush-era e-mails

Millions of Bush administration e-mails recovered - CNN.com



Now that we're past this, how would you feel about Lois Lerner and her staff using the DNC email system for her official Government work? Y'all are crying wolf over "favouritism"... I bet that wouldn't sit pretty.
 
True worshipers will take any path to defend and excuse 'their guy'… LOL.
 
Middleground said:
Now that we're past this, how would you feel about Lois Lerner and her staff using the DNC email system for her official Government work? Y'all are crying wolf over "favouritism"... I bet that wouldn't sit pretty.
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There was nothing to get past. You quoted opposition to the Bush Administration and want people to believe it's the unbiased truth etched in stone.

What happened then and what the IRS is doing now are not the same. You are just doing what every progressive does, and trying to obfuscate the issue, rather than just addressing it head on.

Progressive_debate_tactics_sm.jpg
 
Simon W. Moon said:
According to the IRS, the computer crash in question occurred in 2011, prior to the the targeting scandal coming to light, and though Lerner attempted to have the hard drive in questions salvaged, IT staff were unable to recover the data because sectors of the drive had gone bad.

Read more: IRS lost two years of Lois Lerner's email in Tea Party Probe, blames computer crash - UPI.com​

It's certainly possible for this to be true, but it points toward some mismanagement or negligence on the part of the IT crew.
Generally accepted practices prevent just this sort of thing from happening.
I wonder what there data retention policies are.
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Their data retention policies are mandated by law, thanks to Clinton. It is beyond the shadow of a doubt that the IRS is lying on this one. All executive departments are required, by law, to have redundant backups of all records including email. There is no way that all the backups crashed to the point of non-recovery.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
...its email server (which runs Microsoft Outlook...
​

There's the problem right there.
They should be running Exchange. ; )

reporters....


Here's another bad idea
If the mailbox got too big, email would need to be deleted or moved to a local folder on the user's computer.
​
It should be moved to a network drive which is backed up regularly, NEVER hte local machine.
Have you see what users do with their machines?
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It's deleted from the shared drive after being archived. The only need to move to local is if you wanted to hold on to it. The average user can not have their stuff recovered from the archived data.
 
Grim17 said:
Am I to understand you don't see an issue here?
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Of course there is an issue here. The government is odds on lying and destroyed the emails. But what we see is those that support this administration will twist and spin and divert, because 'their guy' NEVER does anything wrong, EVER.
 
mac said:
Their data retention policies are mandated by law, thanks to Clinton. It is beyond the shadow of a doubt that the IRS is lying on this one. All executive departments are required, by law, to have redundant backups of all records including email. There is no way that all the backups crashed to the point of non-recovery.
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The could be serious morons and ****-ups.

I still don't think the story sounds quite right. I think that there's more to be told.
 
mac said:
It's deleted from the shared drive after being archived.
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I am not sure what you're envisioning here.
Ime, servers are backed up and the data on the servers is not removed or altered as a result of the back-up. All the expense reports for the past 7years (or w/e) remain where they were placed on the network drive as well as being backed up.

mac said:
The only need to move to local is if you wanted to hold on to it.
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Imho, the more important it is to hold on to the data, the more important it is to NOT store it locally.

mac said:
The average user can not have their stuff recovered from the archived data.
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Ime, individual desktops are rarely backed up.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
The could be serious morons and ****-ups.

I still don't think the story sounds quite right. I think that there's more to be told.
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They probably are morons, regardless, no federal agency is quite that inept.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
I am not sure what you're envisioning here.
Ime, servers are backed up and the data on the servers is not removed or altered as a result of the back-up. All the expense reports for the past 7years (or w/e) remain where they were placed on the network drive as well as being backed up.

Imho, the more important it is to hold on to the data, the more important it is to NOT store it locally.

Ime, individual desktops are rarely backed up.
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The emails are archived, then deleted off the short term mass storage. They routinely broadcast to back up your emails as they are about to get deleted. So, the individual user moves what s/he wants to keep to a local drive. Once archived, the average user can't get the emails back from the archived data. So, while it is said they are deleted, the fact is that they have been archived and moved to storage you can't get too. This happens at least once a month.
 
Another facet to this is that the IRS, just a government agency with no right to withhold info from us, is trying to do just that. I saw the head of the IRS speaking at a House hearing, claiming it would take years to get the emails because of all the redacting that they have to do. He was basically ignoring the Congressman saying that the order is just for emails, not redacted emails. They are ordered to hand them over as is.
 
Wait, you mean there is more to this IRS thing than the "two rogue agents" in Cincinnati? I thought that our President declared this a "fake scandal"? And we all know how honest Obama is. Look how straight forward he was about Obamacare. We all know that Bush is responsible for "Fast and Furious", Obama even gave Bush protection under Executive Privilege. We all know that Obama told the truth when he said that a video was to blame for Benghazi.
 
Erod said:
My IT department could have those e-mails for them by lunch.

This is an embarrassing lie.
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Probably most 11 year old could. She would have been better blaming it on her dog eating it. At least we could have gotten a chuckle out of it.
 
Arbo said:
You Know What’s More Unbelievable Than Losing Lois Lerner’s Emails? Losing Emails of SIX MORE IRS Employees!

Wait, it wasn't just Lois's emails that were lost? The email's from 6 other people involved in all of this were 'lost' as well?

Come on mainstream media, you all are really showing yourselves for the shills you are and the journalists you are not.
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The outrage voiced through he MSM, our protectors, and sworn agents of social justice, is deafening on this scandal. Wait, I may have that wrong....
 
jmotivator said:
This WaPo article is not accurate. First, the writer says the email server is "Outlook", which doesn't bode well for their understanding of email servers...
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Yeah, Simon and I already laughed about that one. The only possible excuse I can give the writer is they were trying to use a familiar name for those not familiar with how e-mail works.

Second, no, the IRS email is a domain under the Treasury Email server farm. IRS doesn't manage the email servers, Treasury does.

Third, no, Treasury doesn't recycle tapes every 60 days. Like all Federal email systems, they are mandated to keep permanent backup archives.

Fourth, NO email DR plan relies of the end user to keep their own email archive on their laptop. Lerner may have backed up here PST to her local drive but that is not in any way part of Treasury DR contingency planning.

The IRS story just isn't true.
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You're not telling me anything I don't know SHOULD be true. But anyone who has worked in tech knows what SHOULD be done and what IS done is not always the same thing.

Again, I'm not passing judgment for or against the IRS story. I'm simply saying it is possible, though like I noted before, is still bad even if it's true.
 
Slyfox696 said:
Yeah, Simon and I already laughed about that one. The only possible excuse I can give the writer is they were trying to use a familiar name for those not familiar with how e-mail works.


You're not telling me anything I don't know SHOULD be true. But anyone who has worked in tech knows what SHOULD be done and what IS done is not always the same thing.

Again, I'm not passing judgment for or against the IRS story. I'm simply saying it is possible, though like I noted before, is still bad even if it's true.
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No, sorry it is NOT POSSIBLE, it is perhaps as close as we can come to saying that it is impossible that they lost these emails. Let me say it again. It is impossible that the IRS lost these emails. They are archived in real-time using an appliance similar to one that you would see in a Barracuda set up. Example: Email comes into the Exchange server, scanned for viruses, malware etc, then off it goes to the archiving appliance, then off to the local desktop. The only role of the appliance is to archive (With or without attachments) to a off site storage server for permanent storage. So in a sense, the appliance makes a duplicate copy of the email, and sends to storage. Backing up is done a little differently, BUT has NO bearing on the archiving process, only in how fast an email can be retrieved. Our company uses O365 so even my archived emails are easily accessible, albeit it slightly longer than if on my local machine.

This is a lie, and will be the lie of the year!


Tim-
 
Slyfox696 said:
Yeah, Simon and I already laughed about that one. The only possible excuse I can give the writer is they were trying to use a familiar name for those not familiar with how e-mail works.
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Well, in a section meant to better explain email to the average reader they made them more ignorant.

You're not telling me anything I don't know SHOULD be true. But anyone who has worked in tech knows what SHOULD be done and what IS done is not always the same thing.

Again, I'm not passing judgment for or against the IRS story. I'm simply saying it is possible, though like I noted before, is still bad even if it's true.
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I have colleagues with first hand experience. The whole story, if it ever gets out, is actually pretty funny and sad and maddening. But then that could be said of most stories regarding Federal IT snafus.
 
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