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Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance [W:246, 565, *656*]

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Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Yes. Everyone knew the GWB administration did that as a favor to their successors, to give them freedom to stay or go as they thought best. Acting on (correct) Pentagon advice, the BHO administration opened negotiations, but they used the negotiation process as a way to depart rather than as a way to keep a useful presence in Iraq.:peace



lol....
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Maliki wanted us us to stay.:peace

Of course he did. He had the most powerful military in the world at his beck and call to keep him in power.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Maliki wanted us us to stay.:peace

Maliki: Immunity for U.S. troops scuttled deal

raq's prime minister said Saturday that U.S. troops are leaving Iraq after nearly nine years of war because Baghdad rejected American demands that any U.S. military forces to stay would have to be shielded from prosecution or lawsuits.

The comments by Nouri al-Maliki, a Shiite, made clear that it was Iraq who refused to let the U.S. military remain under the Americans' terms.
Maliki: Immunity for U.S. troops scuttled deal | Military Times | militarytimes.com
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Because there were easy ways to negotiate around that. Maliki was just politicking for the home folks. He wanted us to stay and we knew that, but BHO wanted to exploit the opening to leave altogether.:peace

Actually there was political pressure forced on Maliki coming from Muqtada al-Sadr.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Maliki: Immunity for U.S. troops scuttled deal

raq's prime minister said Saturday that U.S. troops are leaving Iraq after nearly nine years of war because Baghdad rejected American demands that any U.S. military forces to stay would have to be shielded from prosecution or lawsuits.

The comments by Nouri al-Maliki, a Shiite, made clear that it was Iraq who refused to let the U.S. military remain under the Americans' terms.
Maliki: Immunity for U.S. troops scuttled deal | Military Times | militarytimes.com

Blah blah. Grandstanding for the home folks and children. There was a deal to be made and he thought we would make it.:peace
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

He was wrong in individual cases, but right in the aggregate, as historical scholarship has shown.:peace

lol, You mean according to right wingers rewriting history? Like the GOP great depression being prolonged by FDR or Reagan was a 'great' Prez?
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Blah blah. Grandstanding for the home folks and children. There was a deal to be made and he thought we would make it.:peace

Sure, CONservatives were wrong to attack, and are ALWAYS on the wrong side of history, but THIS time, they would've been right *shaking head*
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

lol, You mean according to right wingers rewriting history? Like the GOP great depression being prolonged by FDR or Reagan was a 'great' Prez?

FDR was a great POTUS, but WW2 ended the Depression. RWR was the second greatest POTUS of the 20th century, after FDR.:peace
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Quite simply, BHO was given all the tools for an effective endgame, and squandered the opportunity.

Ummm no, the American people were done with Iraq and the huge waste of American lives and treasure. BushII had already squandered any effective endgame by having ZERO realistic approach to 'after the fall'. He had already declared we were leaving Iraq before he left office.

BushII never got the three biggest factions to form a real central government- do we see the Kurds flooding out of their semi-autonomous region to repel the terrorists??? They seem to be saying let the Arabs kill each other- even though they know the terrorists are Sunnis who backed Saddam and his genocidal attacks on Kurds. :confused:

The Iraqis didn't want us to stay so Obama would have to force any remaining combat units on the 'elected' government- not what democracies do.

Bottom line, the Iraqis had plenty of time to build a military capable of defeating 800 terrorists in pick-ups... :doh
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Ummm no, the American people were done with Iraq and the huge waste of American lives and treasure. BushII had already squandered any effective endgame by having ZERO realistic approach to 'after the fall'. He had already declared we were leaving Iraq before he left office.

BushII never got the three biggest factions to form a real central government- do we see the Kurds flooding out of their semi-autonomous region to repel the terrorists??? They seem to be saying let the Arabs kill each other- even though they know the terrorists are Sunnis who backed Saddam and his genocidal attacks on Kurds. :confused:

The Iraqis didn't want us to stay so Obama would have to force any remaining combat units on the 'elected' government- not what democracies do.

Bottom line, the Iraqis had plenty of time to build a military capable of defeating 800 terrorists in pick-ups... :doh

Obama didn't want to stay because he needed a political narrative. A " Success "...

His decision to bale on Iraq was specifically based on how it would affect him politically.

How long have we had bases in Japan, Germany, and Korea ??

He's absolutely to blame for this.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

But it is what happened prior that allowed those living in urban areas to experience an economic collapse that led to them leaving for work in rural areas on farms that had been bought on the cheap by the wealthy and introduced these people to the world of serfdom. The people allowed it to happen because they became complacent. They became an empire no longer able to defend their borders because they allowed their military to decline. Their currency collapsed. Their trade with the world had diminished. You can blame the leaders if you like but it was the people that allowed them to get away with it till it was to late change course.

Allowed it to happen? They were too disgusted to do much else and the military had turned paid mercenary at that point as well.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Maliki was not the real leader of Iraq, he was a puppet. The real power belonged to Muqtada al-Sadr.


Moqtada al-Sadr orders halt to attacks on US troops stationed in Iraq | World news | The Guardian

Sadr is the real reason Maliki won his first election, because Sadr is the top Shia cleric in the country

That only goes so far. Outreach to the Sunnis was the key, and that's why Maliki needed us. GWB won a victory. BHO has thrown it away.:peace
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Actually no, it came as more and more wealth was being concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer people... the Rural area, small and mid sized farmers were squeezed out as much cheaper grain from overseas flooded into Rome. Much farmland was abandoned in the face of grain imported from Carthage (when Rome lost Carthage famine became a frequent visitor to a City noted for luxurious consumption) People LEFT the farms for the cities.

Cheap labor in the form of slaves brought back from conquests, reduced the earning power of free but poorer citizens.

Taxes on the middle and lower classes increased to pay for the Legions, which FYI didn't decline because the people allowed the military to do so, the military declined because fewer and fewer Citizens were willing to go to the far ends of the earth for decades- the elite had more important things to do, the poor didn't feel like increasing the wealth of the elite.

'The People' didn't allow anything. The Empire over reached, pride, hubris kept EVERYONE from seeing the cost of far flung Legions, an over reliance on exploitative policies toward the outer provinces, and a vicious ruthlessness in the ruling class.

Cliff notes are good for those who just want to pass the course- however they don't give any insight. Fact is the Empire didn't go from conquer to Rome being sacked in a few years, but a slow and halting process over centuries.

Revolts happened repeatedly, assassination was common. Slaves rose in revolt, Generals rose in revolt, hungry Romans rioted...

A democracy, a Democratic Republic, a system where the people vote has a better chance at avoiding a collapse, but the sad fact is empire after empire rose and fell because people are human...

Rome lived upon its principal till ruin stared it in the face. Industry is the only true source of wealth, and there was no industry in Rome. By day the Ostia road was crowded with carts and muleteers, carrying to the great city the silks and spices of the East, the marble of Asia Minor, the timber of the Atlas, the grain of Africa and Egypt; and the carts brought out nothing but loads of dung. That was their return cargo.

– The Martyrdom of Man by Winwood Reade (1871)
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Ummm no, the American people were done with Iraq and the huge waste of American lives and treasure. BushII had already squandered any effective endgame by having ZERO realistic approach to 'after the fall'. He had already declared we were leaving Iraq before he left office.

BushII never got the three biggest factions to form a real central government- do we see the Kurds flooding out of their semi-autonomous region to repel the terrorists??? They seem to be saying let the Arabs kill each other- even though they know the terrorists are Sunnis who backed Saddam and his genocidal attacks on Kurds. :confused:

The Iraqis didn't want us to stay so Obama would have to force any remaining combat units on the 'elected' government- not what democracies do.

Bottom line, the Iraqis had plenty of time to build a military capable of defeating 800 terrorists in pick-ups... :doh

GWB won a victory. BHO has thrown it away.:peace
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

That only goes so far. Outreach to the Sunnis was the key, and that's why Maliki needed us. GWB won a victory. BHO has thrown it away.:peace

And look what the Sunnis whom we armed and trained to fight. They ran away.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

You do realize that Jack Hays is trolling.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance [W:246]

Now your comparing two different types of fecal matter and choosing the one from the Democrap. (See what I did there?)

It wasn't hard to see. I'm apparently not as hard on either.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Clinton allowed for 3,000 to be killed in NYC on 9/11 by not prosecuting the first WTC attack ..

Well, that's a stretch.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Maliki was not the real leader of Iraq, he was a puppet. The real power belonged to Muqtada al-Sadr.

Moqtada al-Sadr orders halt to attacks on US troops stationed in Iraq | World news | The Guardian

Sadr is the real reason Maliki won his first election, because Sadr is the top Shia cleric in the country

Ah, no. Grand Ayatollah Sistani is the top Shia Cleric. Not just in the country - he's the top Shia Cleric.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

GWB won a victory. BHO has thrown it away.:peace

True Story. ISIL was on the way to extinction when GW handed over the reins.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Stop altering my user name and the facts speak for themselves.

Sure, like how Ockham is saying the same thing I did and now you transitively called Ockham a left wing poster?

It's embarrassing just how weak your arguments have become.

It is disturbing just how much you hate the military though.

Insults and partisan talking poits aren't an argument. You've yet to say anything remotely close to expressing an opinion, other than you know it all and everyone else is stupid.

Point out anything I said to be wrong.

You cannot. Because you know you are wrong.

Anyways, anyone can read the thread and see just how weak you've become.

What next? You gona call us racists?

Hardly. Your issue is you hate Democrats to the point you will turn on your own beliefs the second they support that belief. It's why you are so easy to defeat. You have no internal consistency whatsoever.

You and Grant are white washing Iraq to the point you're pretending that huge amounts of deaths in Iraq in 2008 never happened. You made the asinine comment that "We fixed the mess" but you run away cowardly time after time after time to evidence pointing out you are as always, wrong.

I'm being exceptionally rude to you because you are wrong and you are outright lying about everything you say.

And if you think other people aren't noticing it, you're got another thing coming. Grant at least has the sense to flee the thread.
 
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