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Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance [W:246, 565, *656*]

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Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Yes, Iraq is falling. And we were there 10 years because..................?

Yes, thanks to the current President it has been a waste.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Yes, thanks to the current President it has been a waste.

Are there any more ways he can sell us out? Just when I think there isn't he manages to come up with another way.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

That's true. Not understanding why we supported him shows you don't understand geopolitics. Do you know why we "supported" Saddam? And then do you know why we stopped support for Saddam? If you understand geopolitics and know history, its an easy question to answer. But if you learned more rhetoric and propaganda rather then history and geopolitics, then the question itself probably wont make sense to you.

lest assume l dont know

please tell me why you supported .have been waiting :roll:
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

And had we kept a modest advisory and reaction force in place, and sustained our leverage over the Iraqi government, this could all have been avoided.

IF is the biggest word in the English language. Until we bribed the crap out of the Sunnis 200,000 troops couldn't keep a few 'dead-enders' from pushing Iraq to the brink of Civil War, what modest advisory and reaction force were you thinking of?

What leverage are you referring to? The Kurds are separate, the Sunnis not participating, and the Shia aided by the Iranians (BushII could never stop Iran from interfering) engaged in not so petty corruption and power stacking. Seems a mighty small lever we have.

Now the Iraqi government didn't want us to stay, didn't want US Forces immune from Iraqi law. Just how do you suggest we stay? Force the Iraqi government to roll over for us? Do you think that government would stand the powerful domestic outrage sure to rise up? You think the modest advisory and reaction force can counter the renewed violence against the government and 'occupiers'???

Nothing would have been avoided, merely delayed with the added bonus of a kick in the prestige nads of our modest advisory and reaction force being run out of town.... shades of the last chopper out of Saigon...
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

lest assume l dont know

please tell me why you supported .have been waiting :roll:

How did the US prevent Japan from completely conquering Korea and China? We sanctioned them by stopping the shipment of oil to them which caused so much trouble, they attacked us. How did the US and its allies defeat Germany? By sanctioning them and stopping the shipment of oil. I have read several books written from the German side of that war and there was always a shortage of oil because they were cut off from the world supply. That is why they were so interested in invading Africa which is rich in resources. Whoever controls the oil, wins the war. How did the US defeat the USSR? Sanctions.. We starved them to death. It became more and more expensive for them to keep up with the military expansion of the US.

And why were so many of these wars won by the US. Because we supported dictators in the ME. If we did not support them, Japan, Germany or the USSR would have been happy to support them.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

How did the US prevent Japan from completely conquering Korea and China? We sanctioned them by stopping the shipment of oil to them which caused so much trouble, they attacked us. How did the US and its allies defeat Germany? By sanctioning them and stopping the shipment of oil. I have read several books written from the German side of that war and there was always a shortage of oil because they were cut off from the world supply. That is why they were so interested in invading Africa which is rich in resources. Whoever controls the oil, wins the war. How did the US defeat the USSR? Sanctions.. We starved them to death. It became more and more expensive for them to keep up with the military expansion of the US.

And why were so many of these wars won by the US. Because we supported dictators in the ME. If we did not support them, Japan, Germany or the USSR would have been happy to support them.

it is a power battle,as you see.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

That's not true at all. The Iraqi elections are proof of that. People in Iraq WANT the freedom to determine the direction of their country. There are simply to many outside influences that continue to prevent that from being a reality. Why do Iraqi's hate the US so much? It's not because they don't want our flavor of freedom. It's not that they don't have many of the same values as we do. You know what it is? It is because they know we bring false hope. We come to their country, blow a bunch of stuff up, loose our resolve and then leave them with a blown up country and extremists. They don't want our help because they know it is no help at all.

The Iraqi elections were not the 'will of the people' but a corrupt and very flawed exercise in what dictators are accused of doing. The Iraqis voted for the same gang leaders that were directing the kidnappings, bombings and murders for pay. Iraqis don't want our flavor of 'freedom', we in the West are so arrogant we think everyone wants what we have, and only a few 'dead-enders' resist for insane reasons.

What false hope? The Iraqis are not children, they don't lack for weapons or ammo. Our Revolution was not fought for us. Our Revolution was not safeguarded after the British left by the French. Fact is the Iraqis are not Iraqis, they are Kurds, Sunni and Shias thrown together by colonial powers, then held that way by rather ruthless dictators, not unlike Yugoslavia and Tito....
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Yes, that is what Geopolitics is.


what you dont see is that l dont approve such international tricks
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

IF is the biggest word in the English language. Until we bribed the crap out of the Sunnis 200,000 troops couldn't keep a few 'dead-enders' from pushing Iraq to the brink of Civil War, what modest advisory and reaction force were you thinking of?

What leverage are you referring to? The Kurds are separate, the Sunnis not participating, and the Shia aided by the Iranians (BushII could never stop Iran from interfering) engaged in not so petty corruption and power stacking. Seems a mighty small lever we have.

Now the Iraqi government didn't want us to stay, didn't want US Forces immune from Iraqi law. Just how do you suggest we stay? Force the Iraqi government to roll over for us? Do you think that government would stand the powerful domestic outrage sure to rise up? You think the modest advisory and reaction force can counter the renewed violence against the government and 'occupiers'???

Nothing would have been avoided, merely delayed with the added bonus of a kick in the prestige nads of our modest advisory and reaction force being run out of town.... shades of the last chopper out of Saigon...

I disagree completely. But having just taken a direct lightning hit on my house, I'm closing down.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Yes, Iraq is falling. And we were there 10 years because..................?

Is ok that it falls because you didn't agree to go in?
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

The Iraqi elections were not the 'will of the people' but a corrupt and very flawed exercise in what dictators are accused of doing. The Iraqis voted for the same gang leaders that were directing the kidnappings, bombings and murders for pay. Iraqis don't want our flavor of 'freedom', we in the West are so arrogant we think everyone wants what we have, and only a few 'dead-enders' resist for insane reasons.

Not entirely true. While the government in Iraq is indeed corrupt, it does not need to stay that way. If there was a reliable system where voters could vote out the corrupt like they do here in the US for the most part, this would eventually solve itself. The problem is the corrupt that get into office are hard to get out of office because there is little the Iraqi people can do to get them out of office once the US leaves. They have been conditioned to give in to the will of their dictators. It will take an outside power to come in and change that Or perhaps, like during the invasion of Kuwait, an outside power that invades them after their government goes to far. That is what the voters went in to vote for. There was a larger voter turnout in Iraq then there was in the US during our last election. And we don't have the threat of suicide bombers and terrorists mowing down people at polling stations. So your completely wrong when you say they don't want something that resembles the same freedom the US has.

What false hope? The Iraqis are not children, they don't lack for weapons or ammo. Our Revolution was not fought for us. Our Revolution was not safeguarded after the British left by the French. Fact is the Iraqis are not Iraqis, they are Kurds, Sunni and Shias thrown together by colonial powers, then held that way by rather ruthless dictators, not unlike Yugoslavia and Tito....

The US has Sunni, Shia, Kurds, black, white, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Russian, German...ect ect ect... But you don't see us with the problems Iraq has. The reason Iraq has the problems it has is because one group wants to rule the other two groups. A democratic system that allows all to be represented is what solves that problem. Dividing Iraq up wont solve those problems either. All it will do is create 3 warring countries.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

I disagree completely. But having just taken a direct lightning hit on my house, I'm closing down.

Hope you survive the strike, I understand you not seeing it my way, how ever I hope you see I don't know how we stay in a country who didn't want us to remain, didn't roll over for an eventual 200,000 troop occupation force, but would somehow be impressed by a modest advisory and reaction force...

There never was a victory, but there were thousands of Americans killed AFTER the fall of Saddam's government, Billions spent on bribing Sunnis and lull BushII tried to pass off as a victory.

But we don't need anymore victories like that.... :peace
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

what you dont see is that l dont approve such international tricks

Well, we can't stop playing the game until everyone stops playing the game. And I think the only way you will ever see that happen is if we dissolve all governments and merge into one large world government where there are no boarders. Until that happens, every country has its own agenda.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Well, we can't stop playing the game until everyone stops playing the game. And I think the only way you will ever see that happen is if we dissolve all governments and merge into one large world government where there are no boarders. Until that happens, every country has its own agenda.

are you a secret communist ? :lol:
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Is ok that it falls because you didn't agree to go in?

And what exactly makes you think you know what I was thinking 10 years ago? Or what I think today for that matter. Perhaps you should get your own house in order before you decide to clean someone else's clock.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

are you a secret communist ? :lol:

Nope, because if that were ever to happen, I would want it to be a capitalist system via democracy.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Nope, because if that were ever to happen, I would want it to be a capitalist system via democracy.

and teh head of that world government is ?
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Not entirely true. While the government in Iraq is indeed corrupt, it does not need to stay that way. If there was a reliable system where voters could vote out the corrupt like they do here in the US for the most part, this would eventually solve itself. The problem is the corrupt that get into office are hard to get out of office because there is little the Iraqi people can do to get them out of office once the US leaves. They have been conditioned to give in to the will of their dictators. It will take an outside power to come in and change that Or perhaps, like during the invasion of Kuwait, an outside power that invades them after their government goes to far. That is what the voters went in to vote for. There was a larger voter turnout in Iraq then there was in the US during our last election. And we don't have the threat of suicide bombers and terrorists mowing down people at polling stations. So your completely wrong when you say they don't want something that resembles the same freedom the US has.



The US has Sunni, Shia, Kurds, black, white, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Russian, German...ect ect ect... But you don't see us with the problems Iraq has. The reason Iraq has the problems it has is because one group wants to rule the other two groups. A democratic system that allows all to be represented is what solves that problem. Dividing Iraq up wont solve those problems either. All it will do is create 3 warring countries.

False analysis. Problem is the Iraqis don't use the democratic form of governance, a problem with Western Culture is it thinks it's form of governance is superior and only a few bad men would refuse to use it. many regions of the world have a highly developed tribal system that for good or ill pushes leaders up... not unlike our party system that has a city councilman eventually a US Senator.

It is more bogus thought to claim anyone is 'conditioned' to dictatorship AND declare GAWD given rights live in all people's breasts. (BushII)

What was wrong is we scrapped the existing system and tried to force our 'western' system on the Iraqis. They had a system that needed cleaning not scrapping. But just like throwing all ba'athists out of any and every job in Iraq BushII seemed intent on being deaf to everyone but his inner council- none of which gave a second's thought to anything but Neo-Con think tank position papers.

Comparing the USofA and it's melting pot to tribal Iraq is yet another false comparison. We don't have 2000 years of history. We don't have large enclaves of different religious and tribal areas cobbled together by an outside power. (that said we do have enclaves of blacks some CONs point out as almost a separate land, a LIBstan of sorts, not to mention enclaves of white supremacists in the Rockies, in separation by gated community. We divide our nation into blue and red with some purple (do you listen to some of the overheated rhetoric throw around in here?)

The difference is our tribal power structure (and try to be a GOP liberal these days :shock: ) doesn't have thousands of years of bitter fighting to create the divide Iraq has, though we seem heading that way... :peace
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Hope you survive the strike, I understand you not seeing it my way, how ever I hope you see I don't know how we stay in a country who didn't want us to remain, didn't roll over for an eventual 200,000 troop occupation force, but would somehow be impressed by a modest advisory and reaction force...

There never was a victory, but there were thousands of Americans killed AFTER the fall of Saddam's government, Billions spent on bribing Sunnis and lull BushII tried to pass off as a victory.

But we don't need anymore victories like that.... :peace

Our intel and reaction support position with the government gave us enormous influence and helped Maliki make better choices. (Back now on iPad.):peace
 
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Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

I am going to act like a Liberal here for a second...."Bush, Cheney and Halliburton will invade Iraq just to get the oil that is there". Now back to the real world. That two second of thinking like a Liberal really sucked.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

The insurgents are Sunni, rebelling against the Shia/secular government.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Our intel and reaction support position with the government gave us enormous influence and helped Maliki make better choices. (Back now on iPad.)

Like it did in Vietnam I guess.... I don't see the influence, enormous or otherwise, as Maliki was intent on sending the USofA troops packing ASAP. But just what size force you thinking of? Would it go out and about in the cities and villages or act as a velvet hand on Maliki's throat? Not REAL sure what better choices maliki made, seems the Kurds and Sunnis paid him no attention while the Shia militias seemed more intent on making demands than listening to Maliki's better choices
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance



Iraq is going down fast. The US should never have pulled troops out. We should have been resolved to be there for decades, like in Germany, Japan, and South Korea.

Someone doesn't know that Iraq never invited us to stay and in fact kicked us out, it wouldn't have been possible to stay there for decades.

How embarrassing for you that you don't know something so basic about this issue, course that won't stop you from forming an opinion or even reconsidering your current one, thats very sad.
 
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