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Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also [W:74, 162]

Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

Gunshots go down in close earshot proximity and no one draws their guns. You are being beyond naive.
There's a lot of things in this world that sound like a gun shot, and gun shots themselves very. Maybe it was a gun, or maybe a can of soup fell off the top shelf.

I'm not drawing my gun every time a kid pops a balloon or a car rolls over a soda bottle, just for the extremely rare off-chance that its an active shooter. If I hear something, I'll investigate, and only when I've identified a threat might* the gun come out.

I say "might" because the situation may be best handled by letting the crime happen and being a good witniss for police. It all depends depends depends.
 
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Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

The only thing you can get in writing is the words of the shooter himself. He was angry at the Bundy people for not supporting his radical beliefs.

Yeah I just saw the TPM article about the google+ account. I am thinking there is more to the story. The shooter seems way too calm in that video from the Reno station. And if the original video that exploded this story originally was originally this shooter... (MSNBC showed a clip but I can't pull the shooters youtube account) this could get interesting.

I wonder if being shunned from Bundy made this guy get even more radical.

I am sure more will come out over time.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

So? They may have been Marilyn Manson fans too, and fans of American Idol, and possibly fans of Brad Pitt. What's the relevance?

But they weren't, focus.

Three mass shootings in one week, all by the same type of anti government radicals. Millers (two dead cops, one dead bystander) , Marx (one officer shot and run over who thankfully survived), and in Canada, Bourque (three dead mounties). Sounds like Reid was right to warn of domestic terrorists.

Georgia courthouse shooter had bombs, assault rifle, sheriff says - CNN.com
'Rambo-style' shooter Justin Bourque appears in court after Moncton, Canada attack | Mail Online
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

So then why are you posting off topic? This thread is about the shooters in Vegas, and the 3 innnocent people they killed.

Addressing your attempts to take it off topic. Nice try though, do something, then blame others for what you do...
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

Cough...Waco...cough....Ruby Ridge.

The federal government has quite the history killing innocent Americans

No wonder some folks are concerned.

Well, there is a galaxy-wide gap between being concerned by episodes of police vilence and two nut jobs shooting two innocent officers eating Pizza at CiCi's.

I wouldn't want to turn this into a "police bad" discussion because the police are not bad. This is displayed by the fact that in every case of a crazed shooting spree like this there are police on the scene putting their life on the line. It so happened that in this right-to-carry state there was also at least one civilian who also laid down his life to protect innocent people.

It isn't us versus police. That is the fever dream of the Millers.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

But they weren't, focus.

Three mass shootings in one week, all by the same type of anti government radicals. Millers (two dead cops, one dead bystander) , Marx (one officer shot and run over who thankfully survived), and in Canada, Bourque (three dead mounties). Sounds like Reid was right to warn of domestic terrorists.

Georgia courthouse shooter had bombs, assault rifle, sheriff says - CNN.com
'Rambo-style' shooter Justin Bourque appears in court after Moncton, Canada attack | Mail Online

How do you know what they were fans of? You don't. You just want to make this story about Hannity and Bundy, and it's not.

Canada isn't in the United States, so that's irrelevant too. Why are you going so off topic?
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

Addressing your attempts to take it off topic. Nice try though, do something, then blame others for what you do...

The shooting in Vegas and the 3 dead people aren't the topic here? You sure about that? You may want to read the subject line of this thread.

Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

Gunshots go down in close earshot proximity and no one draws their guns. You are being beyond naive.

You have no clue what you are talking about. You are projecting your own lack of training and abundance of ignorance on other people.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

Yeah I just saw the TPM article about the google+ account. I am thinking there is more to the story. The shooter seems way too calm in that video from the Reno station. And if the original video that exploded this story originally was originally this shooter... (MSNBC showed a clip but I can't pull the shooters youtube account) this could get interesting.

I wonder if being shunned from Bundy made this guy get even more radical.

I am sure more will come out over time.

For all we know this happened because they considered the unavailability of Animal Farm in the bookstore to be the last straw.

If you do even a little research on this guy, he's been a ticking time bomb going back to 2000. I think if it was the shunning by the Bundy people, they would have taken action right then and there. But things will start to trickle in over time, and perhaps someday we'll understand why these 2 morons did what they did. Or maybe not.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

I've only heard bits and pieces of the story. Seemed like lack of health insurance was a large part of the guy's frustration, as well as not having the ability to get out of poverty. Not that it's remotely an excuse.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

No, it would have gotten violent if it continued to be a standoff. Someone would have opened fire, could have been the feds, could have been the whack-jobs.

You are simply imagining things at this point, like PowerRob who thinks that shootouts are really just a game of laser tag with pistols.

The thing is, events like the Bundy standoff attract crazy people like a bug zapper attracts mosquitoes. And with the media whipping up a frenzy in a sad push for ratings, they only emboldened and encouraged these nuts. They say they sent the Millers home...but the problem is...the Millers showed up in the first place. If you don't have these crazy standoffs, you don't have to worry about trying to control the crazy people that showed up...do you?

They were crazy before and after the stand off. They were only there because they made the same mistake you have made judging the nature of the Bundy supporters. The Bundy supporters weren't whack-jobs. They purged the whack-jobs from their group.

Hannity is emblematic of the media that pumped up the supporters and gave them a national story. Not responsible journalism is it? Hannity all but fellated Cliven Bundy in his broadcasts....until he finally had to face the fact that Bundy is a racist nut, and that he attracted all kinds of unbalanced people to his ranch. And when you give support and encouragement to unbalanced people, bad things happen.

You keep wanting to make this about Sean Hannity. It has nothing to do with Sean Hannity. The Bundys have Nothing to do with the Millers. They threw the millers off their ranch and somehow you still want to blame them.

Do you judge Occupy Wall Street by some of the radical nut jobs and rapists it attracted? Do you judge Code Pink by the anarchists that show up to burn cars at their anti-war rallies?
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

Yep. He didn't draw out plans or have time to buy ingredients for and build a bomb.

that's BS, he planned to attack a school
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

For all we know this happened because they considered the unavailability of Animal Farm in the bookstore to be the last straw.

If you do even a little research on this guy, he's been a ticking time bomb going back to 2000. I think if it was the shunning by the Bundy people, they would have taken action right then and there. But things will start to trickle in over time, and perhaps someday we'll understand why these 2 morons did what they did. Or maybe not.

I could see the shunning by Bundy's group as being a trigger. The shooters admit to selling everything, quit jobs and moving out there. That is some dedication to a belief there.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

Hannity is emblematic of the media that pumped up the supporters and gave them a national story. Not responsible journalism is it? Hannity all but fellated Cliven Bundy in his broadcasts....until he finally had to face the fact that Bundy is a racist nut, and that he attracted all kinds of unbalanced people to his ranch. And when you give support and encouragement to unbalanced people, bad things happen.


Very true and Yes, journalists should not hype incidents to furher a socio political agenda. Of course, the also applys to liberal CNN as well as Hannity:


- "Lets hype the shooting of Trayvon Martin, openly advance the mere possibility that the shooter was a dogmative white rascist (or, when the facts dont fit that, the shooter was a uhmm..... "white hispanic").
- Ignore the facts that the shooter was not rascist at all, but simply a wanna be cop that got into a situation that he could not control? Done
- Photos of Trayvon? Publish them, but just the ones taken years earlier, before Martin became enamoured by alpha male gangst'as.
- Day by day, minute by minute coverage of the trial? Done
-Publish exaggerated accounts of Zimmerman's hyper vigilance of blacks? Done
-Publish creatively edited or interpreted tapes as "evidence of the crime?" Done

Is CNN, therefore, partly responsible for the this murder:
3 arrested in deadly stabbing of Lewis-McChord soldier | Local & Regional | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News
Police: Soldier fatally stabbed; may be hate crime
 
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Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

You have no clue what you are talking about. You are projecting your own lack of training and abundance of ignorance on other people.

Nothing like voicing an uneducated opinion with faux authority, eh?
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

For all we know this happened because they considered the unavailability of Animal Farm in the bookstore to be the last straw.

If you do even a little research on this guy, he's been a ticking time bomb going back to 2000. I think if it was the shunning by the Bundy people, they would have taken action right then and there. But things will start to trickle in over time, and perhaps someday we'll understand why these 2 morons did what they did. Or maybe not.

Looks like they left enough videos to study.

It's easy after the fact to draw conclusions.

Before the incident, all they did was exercise their right to free speech.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

I thought you had me on ignore.

But Moot nailed it. The talk radio crowd and Hannity in particular gave the loonies at Bundy ranch a voice. It doesn't take much to push these nutsacks over the edge. When you have these militia wannabe's out at the ranch aiming their rifles at federal agents, and guys like Hannity cheering them on, what the hell do you expect? The most crazy of the crazies will go and do violence like this. Shame on all the politicians and TV and radio hosts that pandered to the nuts supporting that anti government thief Cliven Bundy.

 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

You have no clue what you are talking about. You are projecting your own lack of training and abundance of ignorance on other people.

And you are getting personal because you can't logically stay on topic. What would you do? Gun shots go down. Not a can of soup falling or a balloon popping for convenient topic dodging. Gunshots, verified by people screaming and hollering, "he's got a gun". There are 20 "good guys" with guns and all of you heard this going down. What do you do?... other than attack me in this forum that is?
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

that's BS, he planned to attack a school

having thought about it and actually planning it are two different things. I'm open to what evidence there is of the detailed planning. I'll admit I'm not fully in the know on it but I don't recall the stories of his and documentation being found on this like they did at columbine.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

having thought about it and actually planning it are two different things. I'm open to what evidence there is of the detailed planning. I'll admit I'm not fully in the know on it but I don't recall the stories of his and documentation being found on this like they did at columbine.

the reports I got (I was a federal law enforcement officer at the time) indicated a fairly high level of planning-not as much as columbine though which involved bomb making among other things. it was premeditated though
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

You are simply imagining things at this point, like PowerRob who thinks that shootouts are really just a game of laser tag with pistols.

Oh looky here. jmotivator talking to someone else and attacking me as a dodge yet again... go figure. lol

you don't know what I know or think. I've probably held and shot more weapons than you have or perhaps will so... do try to stay on topic. I know it's hard for you... but please try. powerob is NOT the topic.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

the reports I got (I was a federal law enforcement officer at the time) indicated a fairly high level of planning-not as much as columbine though which involved bomb making among other things. it was premeditated though

My point is, the more they document and have to purchase ingredients, the more likely they will be caught and stopped or that the lapse of time makes them reconsider. Just like with suicide, the more efficient, easy and convenient it is, the more likely that that efficient, easy and convenient suicide will happen.

Who Knew? The Leading Cause Of Gun Death Is Suicide - Forbes

What I'm posturing is, the more easy you make the ability to create a tragedy, the more likely it will happen. Relaxed gun purchasing standards combined with the NRA doing all they can to kill off background checks so that ANYONE can have practically any kind of war-intended machine gun stash, including the mentally handicapped... it's a bad recipe. And I know that there is still the argument that they could just get it illegally, well not if the streets weren't being flooded with these things by the manufacturers and gun shows in what seems to be a rather shadow covered dispersing of weapons.

What's that russian guy they busted years ago they called the merchant of death for gun running in third world nations? Kinda feels like there is a massive underground of that here with no concern to get to the bottom of it.
 
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Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

And you are getting personal because you can't logically stay on topic. What would you do? Gun shots go down. Not a can of soup falling or a balloon popping for convenient topic dodging. Gunshots, verified by people screaming and hollering, "he's got a gun". There are 20 "good guys" with guns and all of you heard this going down. What do you do?... other than attack me in this forum that is?

I already told you what I would do. Your problem is that you tried to tell me what I would do to set up a scenario that I wouldn't be in because I am not ignorant and untrained like you are. It's not insulting, it is just simple fact. I would suggest you take some firearm defense training and basic gun handling classes before you start broadcasting to the educated world that you don't know what you are talking about.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

My point is, the more they document and have to purchase ingredients, the more likely they will be caught and stopped. Just like with suicide, the more efficient, easy and convenient it is, the more likely it will happen more frequently that efficient, easy and convenient suicide will happen.

Who Knew? The Leading Cause Of Gun Death Is Suicide - Forbes

What I'm posturing is, the more easy you make the ability to create a tragedy, the more likely it will happen. Relaxed gun purchasing standards combined with the NRA doing all they can to kill off background checks so that ANYONE can have practically any kind of war-intended machine gun stash, including the mentally handicapped... it's a bad recipe. And I know that there is still the argument that they could just get it illegally, well not if the streets weren't being flooded with these things.

all this crap about background checks is worthless. criminals get most of their guns from other criminals or family members in straw purchases. the UBGC won't stop any of that.

and anyone who has even a passing familiarity with the war on drugs realizes how stupid trying to ban market driven activities are. with the cops and military losing thousands upon thousands of high grade weapons each year, even with a complete ban (like we have on cocaine, heroin, crystal meth and LSD) there will be a booming black market
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

I already told you what I would do. Your problem is that you tried to tell me what I would do to set up a scenario that I wouldn't be in because I am not ignorant and untrained like you are. It's not insulting, it is just simple fact. I would suggest you take some firearm defense training and basic gun handling classes before you start broadcasting to the educated world that you don't know what you are talking about.

I gave a scenario. You attacked the scenario as a dodge. Tell it to the gunman when it happens. "This isn't how this is supposed to happen. Let's start over."
 
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