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Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also [W:74, 162]

Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

beefheart said:
I thought you had me on ignore.

But Moot nailed it. The talk radio crowd and Hannity in particular gave the loonies at Bundy ranch a voice. It doesn't take much to push these nutsacks over the edge. When you have these militia wannabe's out at the ranch aiming their rifles at federal agents, and guys like Hannity cheering them on, what the hell do you expect? The most crazy of the crazies will go and do violence like this. Shame on all the politicians and TV and radio hosts that pandered to the nuts supporting that anti government thief Cliven Bundy.
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Please post a link to support your claim that Hannity encouraged people to shoot policemen and innocent shoppers. I'll wait.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

tres borrachos said:
Please post a link to support your claim that Hannity encouraged people to shoot policemen and innocent shoppers. I'll wait.
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Because I didn't say that.

I said that the media encouraged these nutsacks out at the ranch. And by encouraging them, they pushed some of the more nutty ones over the edge. Oh Tres...you need to stop attributing words to people's posts that aren't there. Please show me my "claim that Hannity encouraged people to shoot policemen and innocent shoppers" I won't wait, because such a stupid statement isn't worth my time.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

beefheart said:
Because I didn't say that.

I said that the media encouraged these nutsacks out at the ranch. And by encouraging them, they pushed some of the more nutty ones over the edte. Oh Tres...you need to stop attributing words to people's posts that aren't there. Please show me my "claim that Hannity encouraged people to shoot policemen and innocent shoppers" I won't wait, because such a stupid statement isn't worth my time.
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Then if Hannnity didn't encourage anyone to do anything, he has nothing to do with this story. You brought him into this thread even though there was no reason to.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

tres borrachos said:
Then if Hannnity didn't encourage anyone to do anything, he has nothing to do with this story. You brought him into this thread even though there was no reason to.
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You made a specific accusation of what you think I posted, but I didn't post that did I? Stop making up words that you think others posted.

You supported the folks at the Bundy ranch...are you proud of what some of them have done since then?
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

beefheart said:
You made a specific accusation of what you think I posted, but I didn't post that did I? Stop making up words that you think others posted.

You supported the folks at the Bundy ranch...are you proud of what some of them have done since then?
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This thread isn't about me or the Bundy ranch. It's about 2 loons in Las Vegas who shot 3 people.

Why did you mention Hannity's name in this thread? It wasn't about him either.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

beefheart said:
Because I didn't say that.

I said that the media encouraged these nutsacks out at the ranch. And by encouraging them, they pushed some of the more nutty ones over the edge. Oh Tres...you need to stop attributing words to people's posts that aren't there. Please show me my "claim that Hannity encouraged people to shoot policemen and innocent shoppers" I won't wait, because such a stupid statement isn't worth my time.
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This is so stupid. The Bundy standoff ended peacefully. This couple wanted to kill cops since before the Bundy standoff. They were only their in a hope they could shoot some cops. When the Bundy supporters realized what this couple was up to they threw them out.

Would you argue that the news reports on police brutality are to blame as well? This couple believed that the police are the enemy, a belief more in sync with OWS than the Tea Party.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

jmotivator said:
This is so stupid. The Bundy standoff ended peacefully. This couple wanted to kill cops since before the Bundy standoff. They were only their in a hope they could shoot some cops. When the Bundy supporters realized what this couple was up to they threw them out.

Would you argue that the news reports on police brutality are to blame as well? This couple believed that the police are the enemy, a belief more in sync with OWS than the Tea Party.
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Ended peacefully because the government backed down. The protesters were the ones out there playing with their guns, aiming them at the feds, etc.

And the Millers? They were there, talking trash and prepared to shoot.



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Being at the Bundy ranch energized these nuts.

In Jerad Miller's Facebook postings, he invoked the Bundy Ranch standoff while it was picking up steam in early April with a revolutionary fervor.

"Ranch war almost under way," he posted on April 9. "[W]e need to watch this closely, could be the next Waco and start of revolution."

Later the same day, Miller posted that he would be "supporting Clive Bundy and his family from Federal Government slaughter... We must do something. I will be doing something."

Al Jazeera America quoted someone named Jerad Miller in an April 22 report on the Bundy Ranch standoff, though it identified him as a "rancher."

"I feel sorry for any federal agents that want to come in here and try to push us around or anything like that," he told the news outlet. "I really don't want violence toward them, but if they're gonna come bring violence to us, if that's the language they want to speak, we'll learn it."

In addition, television station KRNV in Reno aired a report on April 14 that included video from the Bundy Ranch site and an interview with a supporter identified as "Jarad Miller" and who gave a very similar quote that was given to Al Jazeera.
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In the Facebook postings, the revolutionary and violent rhetoric carried through until just prior to the June 8 shootings.

"We can hope for peace. We must, however, prepare for war," Miller wrote on June 2. "To stop this oppression, I fear, can only be accomplished through bloodshed." The same day, he encouraged "illegal aliens" to "make the ultimate sacrifice with us."

But while Miller appears to have taken an intense interest in the Buncy Ranch standoff, his public Facebook postings were filled with violent imagery and anti-government beliefs long before Bundy earned national headlines.

"This is a declaration to all Americans. If you don't agree with and hold dear the second amendment of the united states constitution (sic), then you ,need to self-deport yourself to someplace where people like you can congregate," he wrote on Jan. 1, 2013. "We are already on our way to tyranny, and your corrupt evil ass needs to leave this country before you incite another civil war."

"Your (sic) a traitor to this nation and its people who hold their rights dear to them and deserve to die a traitors death."
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Facebook Posts Reveal Vegas Shooter Thought Bundy Ranch Was 'Start Of Revolution'
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

tres borrachos said:
This thread isn't about me or the Bundy ranch. It's about 2 loons in Las Vegas who shot 3 people.

Why did you mention Hannity's name in this thread? It wasn't about him either.
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Why do you make specific accusations as to what someone said that aren't true?

I mention Hannity, I'll mention Alex Jones, and any politician or media that pumped up and supported the Bundy protesters and Bundy. Because they helped incite a bunch of lunatics through their support.

Sorry it is an obtuse concept for some to understand. But...when you give support to people who are crazy and whip up a media frenzy...you tend to push those on the edge over the edge. You may not agree, but there are two dead cops and a dead bystander as a result of two of the crazy people who hung with the Bundy protester crowd.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

jmotivator said:
This is so stupid. The Bundy standoff ended peacefully. This couple wanted to kill cops since before the Bundy standoff. They were only their in a hope they could shoot some cops. When the Bundy supporters realized what this couple was up to they threw them out.

Would you argue that the news reports on police brutality are to blame as well? This couple believed that the police are the enemy, a belief more in sync with OWS than the Tea Party.
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The Bundy standoff, like Sean Hannity, has nothing to do with this story.

Anyone with a functioning brain has read about this couple who were acting insane and had been in trouble with the law for years. Anyone with a functioning brain who isn't blinded by partisanship also knows that the Bundy people "shunned" this couple, according to the shooters own words.

But never let a good crisis go to waste. Always use the deaths of three innocent people to promote your anti-Hannity, anti-Bundy agenda.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

beefheart said:
Why do you make specific accusations as to what someone said that aren't true?

I mention Hannity, I'll mention Alex Jones, and any politician or media that pumped up and supported the Bundy protesters and Bundy. Because they helped incite a bunch of lunatics through their support.

Sorry it is an obtuse concept for some to understand. But...when you give support to people who are crazy and whip up a media frenzy...you tend to push those on the edge over the edge. You may not agree, but there are two dead cops and a dead bystander as a result of two of the crazy people who hung with the Bundy protester crowd.
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This thread isn't about Bundy and it isn't about Hannity.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

beefheart said:
Ended peacefully because the government backed down. The protesters were the ones out there playing with their guns, aiming them at the feds, etc.
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Let's examine that thought for a minute... you accept that it would only get violent if the police opened fire.... and yet you blame the Bundy supporters who never fired a shot?

Do you think any Feds were aiming at Bundy supporters?



And the Millers? They were there, talking trash and prepared to shoot.

Facebook Posts Reveal Vegas Shooter Thought Bundy Ranch Was 'Start Of Revolution'
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I never said they weren't there. I said they were thrown out for being nut jobs. Your own TPM link verifies that that is what happened:

"I was out there but they told me and my wife to leave because I am a felon," he wrote. "They don't seem to understand that they are all felons now for intimidating law enforcement with deadly weapons. So don't tell you that they need people. We sold everything we had to buy supplies and quit our jobs to be there 24/7. How dare you ask for help and shun us dedicated patriots!"

The Millers were their because they wanted to kill cops and hoped that the Bundy standoff would be the start of the revolution they wanted. They were disappointed that the people at the Bundy standoff weren't insane nut jobs like they were and decided that if the Bundy supporters weren't interested in a revolution then they would start one themselves.

This has nothing to do with the Bundys or Sean Hanity and everything to do with the Millers being insane nut jobs.
 
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Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

jmotivator said:
Let's examine that thought for a minute... you accept that it would only get violent if the police opened fire.... and yet you blame the Bundy supporters who never fired a shot?

Do you think any Feds were aiming at Bundy supporters?






I never said they weren't there. I said they were thrown out for being nut jobs. Your own TPM link verifies that that is what happened:

"I was out there but they told me and my wife to leave because I am a felon," he wrote. "They don't seem to understand that they are all felons now for intimidating law enforcement with deadly weapons. So don't tell you that they need people. We sold everything we had to buy supplies and quit our jobs to be there 24/7. How dare you ask for help and shun us dedicated patriots!"

The Millers were their because they wanted to kill cops and hoped that the Bundy standoff would be the start of the revolution they wanted. They were disappointed that the people at the Bundy standoff weren't insane nut jobs like they were and decided that if the Bundy supporters weren't interested in a revolution then they would start one themselves.

This has nothing to do with the Bundys or Sean Hanity and everything to do with the Millers being insane nut jobs.
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Cough...Waco...cough....Ruby Ridge.

The federal government has quite the history killing innocent Americans

No wonder some folks are concerned.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

TurtleDude said:
that was spontaneous

after he killed his mother?
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Yep. He didn't draw out plans or have time to buy ingredients for and build a bomb.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

jmotivator said:
That's easy. You aren't trained to go running through Walmart with your gun drawn. You draw when you assess your target. Until any of those 20 people laid eyes on the shooters they would not have their gun drawn, so anyone who I see with their gun drawn would either know I am not the shooter -- because they saw the shooter and my gun was not drawn -- or would point their gun at me which means they are now a target.

Gun safety and Gun defense classes cover all of this. No trained gun owner would be so stupid as to whip out their gun in a situation like that and go running around the store.
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Gunshots go down in close earshot proximity and no one draws their guns. You are being beyond naive.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

tres borrachos said:
The Bundy standoff, like Sean Hannity, has nothing to do with this story.

Anyone with a functioning brain has read about this couple who were acting insane and had been in trouble with the law for years. Anyone with a functioning brain who isn't blinded by partisanship also knows that the Bundy people "shunned" this couple, according to the shooters own words.

But never let a good crisis go to waste. Always use the deaths of three innocent people to promote your anti-Hannity, anti-Bundy agenda.
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Actually the girl didn't have a criminal record. To me this is a lot like the Boston Bombers. The older one was very radicalized and got the younger one to go along.

Seems the Bundy ranch may have asked then to leave. Problem is the interview that shows the male, he seems really calm and acts like he doesn't want violence. I need to see a something in writing before I buy into the ranch asking them
to leave.
Las Vegas Shooters Allegedly Spent Time At Bundy Ranch, Embraced White Supremacy | ThinkProgress

Edit: Just saw the TPM link about a google+ account. If that is true, I am still curious to how long he was out on the ranch for...
 
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Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

Jerry said:
When you make these scenarios, you shouldn't tell me what I do. I would not draw my sidearm at the sound of shots several isles away. Likely I would become the wall to dodge the impending stampede. From that point I would be a good witniss.

You obviously have no formal training on this matter.
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Of course you would magically chameleon yourself into cans of soup. And when you see another with a gun, you'd do nothingbecause only a bad guy would have their gun drawn... What a croc o crap.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

jmotivator said:
Let's examine that thought for a minute... you accept that it would only get violent if the police opened fire
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No, it would have gotten violent if it continued to be a standoff. Someone would have opened fire, could have been the feds, could have been the whack-jobs.

The thing is, events like the Bundy standoff attract crazy people like a bug zapper attracts mosquitoes. And with the media whipping up a frenzy in a sad push for ratings, they only emboldened and encouraged these nuts. They say they sent the Millers home...but the problem is...the Millers showed up in the first place. If you don't have these crazy standoffs, you don't have to worry about trying to control the crazy people that showed up...do you?

Hannity is emblematic of the media that pumped up the supporters and gave them a national story. Not responsible journalism is it? Hannity all but fellated Cliven Bundy in his broadcasts....until he finally had to face the fact that Bundy is a racist nut, and that he attracted all kinds of unbalanced people to his ranch. And when you give support and encouragement to unbalanced people, bad things happen.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

voyager1 said:
Actually the girl didn't have a criminal record. To me this is a lot like the Boston Bombers. The older one was very radicalized and got the younger one to go along.

Seems the Bundy ranch may have asked then to leave. Problem is the interview that shows the male, he seems really calm and acts like he doesn't want violence. I need to see a something in writing before I buy into the ranch asking them
to leave.
Las Vegas Shooters Allegedly Spent Time At Bundy Ranch, Embraced White Supremacy | ThinkProgress
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The only thing you can get in writing is the words of the shooter himself. He was angry at the Bundy people for not supporting his radical beliefs.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

tres borrachos said:
This thread isn't about Bundy and it isn't about Hannity.
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Keep trying to spin. These murderers were Bundy fans, you can't escape that, no matter how hard you try.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

beefheart said:
Keep trying to spin. These murderers were Bundy fans, you can't escape that, no matter how hard you try.
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So? They may have been Marilyn Manson fans too, and fans of American Idol, and possibly fans of Brad Pitt. What's the relevance?
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

tres borrachos said:
This thread isn't about me
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No, it isn't but it does bring out a certain passive aggressive martyr routine.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

beefheart said:
No, it isn't but it does bring out a certain passive aggressive martyr routine.
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So then why are you posting off topic? This thread is about the shooters in Vegas, and the 3 innnocent people they killed.
 
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