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Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also [W:74, 162]

re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

some want to live as sheep worrying only about the farmer

some want to live free and will accept the risk of having to deal with a wolf. But the fact remains, sheep in pens can never escape the farmer. Those in the field can escape the wolf

And that means living in a society where you are in an arms race with your fellow country men/women? Sorry, but not having weapons does not make someone a sheep and having guns does make them "a farmer" because there is always someone with more or bigger guns.

Guns do not necessarily make someone safer than without a gun. And again, I am purely talking about the Dutch situation, not the one in the US. The rules that work in the Netherlands go out of the window in the US, not because people are very different but the situation is totally different. Any criminal knows that he will have to come armed to break into someone's house and willing to use it at the first sign of danger. In the Netherlands criminals are "rewarded" for not using violence because the difference between using violence and not using violence is massive in the Netherlands. Also, the risk of the owner of the house being armed himself and posing a danger to the criminal is almost zero, there is little or no need for the criminal to use or even come with a gun when robbing a house.

You are comparing the American reality with the Dutch reality and that is not possible, we cannot be compared when it comes to guns IMHO. Both are different, not better than one another and not worse than one another, just different.

You think that guns give you the opportunity to live free, I do not see it like that. I see my way as living free. Not worrying about the wolf because the risk for being hurt by wolves is not that great.
 
re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

Las Vegas ‘revolution’ shooters ID’d as right-wing conspiracy nuts with a deathwish

Las Vegas ‘revolution’ shooters ID’d as right-wing conspiracy nuts with a deathwish
By Travis Gettys
Monday, June 9, 2014 11:32 EDT


A man who gunned down two police officers and a woman Sunday in Las Vegas left behind social media postings that show his concerns over Benghazi, chemtrails, gun control laws, and the government’s treatment of rancher Cliven Bundy.

Neighbors identified Jerad and Amanda Miller as the suspects who shot the officers execution-style as they ate lunch at a pizza restaurant, and then shot a woman outside a Walmart in the same plaza.

The couple’s apartment was searched Monday morning, and authorities in Lafayette, Indiana, confirmed that Las Vegas police had contacted them about the case.

Witnesses said the couple announced the shootings were the start of a revolution and draped the victims’ bodies with American Revolution-era Gadsden flags — bearing the slogan “Don’t tread on me” — that have become symbols of the Tea Party movement.

Jerad Miller posted a photo of himself Feb. 8 standing alongside former Sheriff Richard Mack, who promotes the posse comitatus idea that county sheriffs represent the supreme law of the land, during a libertarian sheriff’s debate.

Congrats to Sean Hannity and Alex Jones and all the other people that pumped up the Bundy love, two dead cops.

Watch the video of this jackball at the link, crying because he got arrested..again, shirtless...why do all the goobers like this go without shirts and cry like babies..it is like watching an episode of Cops.

Also, over on FR, they had a thread about these guys and their ties...but they closed it, and aren't talking about it. Hitting too close to home?
 
re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

a) You're missing the bigger picture. If two civilians get into it, it's hard to tell who is the aggressor. There could be confusion about whom to shoot.
b) However, when it comes to a cop being shot THERE IS NO DOUBT and so one should act decisively and without any pause regarding target. Now you understand why the victims being cops makes the decision to fire all the more easy?

a) Agreed.

b) I disagree. Once the policemen were already shot, unless the preps threaten you, you are taking the law into your own hands. That's why we have a justice system. I have no problem with self-defense but what you are suggesting is vigilantism

Just for the record, this just in.....


Vegas Cop Killers Awash in White Supremacy, Rightwing Conspiracy --- Local reporting: After fatally shooting two police officers, assailants placed 'Don't Tread On Me' flags over bodies (unconfirmed by Vegas police) - Source
 
re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

b) I disagree. Once the policemen were already shot, unless the preps threaten you, you are taking the law into your own hands. That's why we have a justice system. I have no problem with self-defense but what you are suggesting is vigilantism

I'm not suggesting vigilantism. If someone shoots a cop, they have committed a forcible felony and one has every reason to believe they will continue murdering immediately.

If you see someone shoot a cop, shoot them. There's no question. There's no decision to make. That threat must be put down immediately.

I'm tired of BS excuses for cowardice. There is no ****ing question, whatsoever, that an active cop killer must be brought down i-****ing-mediately.

It's self defense and the defense of others. That you would presume the killers will stop, and turn themselves in, is a glorious height of nonsense. Why do you want more cops to die when you could stop it by surprise?
 
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re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

a) Agreed.

b) I disagree. Once the policemen were already shot, unless the preps threaten you, you are taking the law into your own hands. That's why we have a justice system. I have no problem with self-defense but what you are suggesting is vigilantism

Just for the record, this just in.....

Vegas Cop Killers Awash in White Supremacy, Rightwing Conspiracy --- Local reporting: After fatally shooting two police officers, assailants placed 'Don't Tread On Me' flags over bodies (unconfirmed by Vegas police) - Source
Moderate conservatism continues to present a threat to our nation.
 
re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

Why do you want more cops to die when you could stop it by surprise?

Correction: Why would you allow the chance of more cops (and presumably others) being injured and dead when you could stop it by surprise.
 
re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

Two can play that game, if the guy had not been allowed to own a gun he most likely would have never been able to go on a shooting spree.
If he hadn't been allowed to murder people then he couldn't have gone on the shooting spree.
 
re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

If someone in the restaurant had carried, maybe the scumbags wouldn't have made it to Walmart.

Wait a second... Didn't the story just say that there were two armed officers in there?
 
re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

Two can play that game, if the guy had not been allowed to own a gun he most likely would have never been able to go on a shooting spree.

Because nobody has ever murdered anyone with a gun they obtained illegally. :roll:
 
re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

He would probably have poisoned the water, used a bomb, infected others or otherwise caused many more deaths. Him using a gun presumably saved lives.

How ya like that?

Going nuts relatively spontaneously, as guns allow, is far harder to stop than some nut who has to plan and develop their crazy attack and pull the ingredients together. And if its because you are doped to the gills on something... By the time you pull all that crap together the buzz will have faded allowing common sense to creep back into your life.
 
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re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

Las Vegas ‘revolution’ shooters ID’d as right-wing conspiracy nuts with a deathwish





Congrats to Sean Hannity and Alex Jones and all the other people that pumped up the Bundy love, two dead cops.

Watch the video of this jackball at the link, crying because he got arrested..again, shirtless...why do all the goobers like this go without shirts and cry like babies..it is like watching an episode of Cops.

Also, over on FR, they had a thread about these guys and their ties...but they closed it, and aren't talking about it. Hitting too close to home?
Congrats to you for waiting almost a day to stomp around in the blood of victims to try and create some form of political gain. Stay you, baby...we'd expect nothing less.
 
re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

Wait a second... Didn't the story just say that there were two armed officers in there?

They were ambushed. The best way to stop additional murder, which is certain, is to ambush in return.
 
re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

Going nuts relatively spontaneously is far harder to stop than some nut who has to plan and develope their crazy attack.

Most (all?) shooters spent months planning.
 
re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

They were ambushed. The best way to stop additional murder, which is certain, is to ambush in return.

Ahhh... The 'ol "only if everyone were armed" argument. Everyone would simply shoot only the right person(s) every time.
 
re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

Most (all?) shooters spent months planning.

Seriously, seriously SERIOUSLY doubt that. In fact because of trying to plan it out is when many get caught.
 
re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

Ahhh... The 'ol "only if everyone were armed" argument. Everyone would simply shoot only the right person(s) every time.

Better odds than cops so far.
 
re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

Better odds than cops so far.

Seeing how the everyone being armed scenario includes swaths of far less well trained shooters... That stat would die too.
 
re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

Ahhh... The 'ol "only if everyone were armed" argument. Everyone would simply shoot only the right person(s) every time.

Can you keep context? We're talking about cops ambushed in broad daylight.


Seriously, seriously SERIOUSLY doubt that. In fact because of trying to plan it out is when many get caught.

As I remember, there's always diaries, videos, scribbles in notebooks and other stuff going on long before the shooter goes active.
 
re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

Congrats to you for waiting almost a day to stomp around in the blood of victims to try and create some form of political gain. Stay you, baby...we'd expect nothing less.

Oh get the hell off your high horse. This info is just coming out today, as the names of the shooters just came out today.

Don't you dare accuse me of stomping around in the blood of victims.

I'm posting what is verified and known, as of today. Evidently you don't like the fact that these two murderers were part of the ultra crazies that hung out at Bundy's ranch.

(but, I'll bet you had no problem with all the un sourced innuendo and stories that came out about Berghdal)
 
re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

Wait a second... Didn't the story just say that there were two armed officers in there?

You can't really count ambushed victims. They don't have a chance.

The third victim WAS a concealed carry citizen and he did draw on the man, but was gunned down by the woman who had got behind him. The police are crediting the third victim as a hero.

The third victim was the first armed person the couple encountered with an opportunity to make a difference. We should all be thankful that man had the courage to draw his gun on a murderer.

Also, according to the reports, the Millers went to the Bundy Ranch because they hoped to be able to kill Police there. Their cop killing fantasy predated the Bundy standoff and had nothing to do with support for Bundy in his land dispute. That is like blaming Code Pink for the anarchists that show up to a protest and burn cars.
 
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re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

Oh get the hell off your high horse. This info is just coming out today, as the names of the shooters just came out today.

Don't you dare accuse me of stomping around in the blood of victims.

I'm posting what is verified and known, as of today. Evidently you don't like the fact that these two murderers were part of the ultra crazies that hung out at Bundy's ranch.

(but, I'll bet you had no problem with all the un sourced innuendo and stories that came out about Berghdal)
Shame there werent some cute little pink fresh faced children you could exploit. Darn it! This one will be good for a few digs, but just like the day to day violence people like you ignore, this one just isnt going to be tasty enough for you to get much mileage out of.

EDIT: I specifically and pointedly avoided critique of Obama re the Bergdahl release and posted it.
 
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re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74]

Moderator's Warning:
If you can't discuss this topic without attacking other posters, it would be a good idea to leave the thread or quote the post in the place which must not be named. Discuss the OP, not each other.
 
Re: Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead[W:74

I'm not suggesting vigilantism. If someone shoots a cop, they have committed a forcible felony and one has every reason to believe they will continue murdering immediately.

If you see someone shoot a cop, shoot them. There's no question. There's no decision to make. That threat must be put down immediately.

I'm tired of BS excuses for cowardice. There is no ****ing question, whatsoever, that an active cop killer must be brought down i-****ing-mediately.

It's self defense and the defense of others. That you would presume the killers will stop, and turn themselves in, is a glorious height of nonsense. Why do you want more cops to die when you could stop it by surprise?
Life isn't a BS movie, eco. The reality is....

"...The couple then retreated to a nearby Walmart, fired a shot and warned everyone to get out. McMahill said Joseph Wilcox, 31, was in the store and was carrying a concealed weapon. Wilcox walked past Amanda Miller and confronted her husband. Amanda Miller then fatally shot Wilcox, McMahill said....."
Police release details of murderous Las Vegas rampage

If Joe Wilcox wasn't CCW do you think he would've had the guts to confront the Millers and get himself killed? It's always six of one and half a dozen of another, isn't it?


Btw, since you keep mentioning that the couple were on drugs, where's the link to your source?
 
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