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Bergdahl says he was tortured by Taliban captors

Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

TheNextEra said:
You've already pronounced him guilty and have said Obama should have left him with the Taliban because of it. Can't get more lynching than that.

Again innocent until proven guilty and he has not had a comment about his situation and you and others want to convict him before any trial. Nuff said
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There are many people throughout history who we know to be guilty of crimes despite them never having gone through the legal system. There is the judicial system and the court of public opinion and in that court Bergdahl is an obvious deserter. Whether he is guilty of other crimes has yet to be demonstrated.
 
Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

apdst said:
You can count on there not being an investigation and certainly not a trial. The state department spokesgal has already called the men in his unit liars, so we already know where this is headed.
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And called the terrorists they freed "Gentlemen". That rather blurs the line between Obama's feelings towards Americans and Islamic terrorists.
 
Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

Napoleon said:
I believe they are swift boating him. His unit, including these men, were known for being undisciplined, lacking in accountability for their actions, and behaving in a manner contrary to our mission there. The most vocal among them, Josh Korder, received an other than honorable discharge. They are being represented and their appearances booked by a Republican public relations firm and some of the things they've said have been proven to be untrue. IMO, anything they have to say should be taken with a grain of salt.
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This is total nonsense and you have nothing to support these claims.
 
Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

apdst said:
Except, the members of his unit have absolutely nothing to gain by lying.
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We don't know what their motivation really is, but they most certainly are lying. For example, they claim that six soldiers were killed while searching for Bergdahl when, in fact, they were killed while on routine patrol. Another example, Buetow's claim that Bergdahl was looking for the Taliban, the intercepts mentioned don't say anything about anyone looking for the Taliban. All they say is that there was an American soldier with a camera looking for someone who speaks English. That soldier was never even identified nor did any of the intercepts say that whoever it was had been looking for the Taliban.

apdst said:
Oh, and post a link supporting all that...thanks!
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You can start here, here, and here.
 
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Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

Napoleon said:
We don't know what their motivation really is, but they most certainly are lying. For example, they claim that six soldiers were killed while searching for Bergdahl when, in fact, they were killed while on routine patrol. Another example, Buetow's claim that Bergdahl was looking for the Taliban, the intercepts mentioned don't say anything about anyone looking for the Taliban. All they say is that there was an American soldier with a camera looking for someone who speaks English. That soldier was never even identified nor did any of the intercepts say that whoever it was had been looking for the Taliban.



You can start here, here, and here.
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None of these links support your contentions. Best use direct quotes.
 
Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

Napoleon said:
We don't know what their motivation really is, but they most certainly are lying. For example, they claim that six soldiers were killed while searching for Bergdahl when, in fact, they were killed while on routine patrol. Another example, Buetow's claim that Bergdahl was looking for the Taliban, the intercepts mentioned don't say anything about anyone looking for the Taliban. All they say is that there was an American soldier with a camera looking for someone who speaks English. That soldier was never even identified nor did any of the intercepts say that whoever it was had been looking for the Taliban.



You can start here, here, and here.
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Media Matters? Oh! I'm convinced!
 
Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

Grant said:
None of these links support your contentions. Best use direct quotes.
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Then it is very apparent that you never read them.

Undisciplined:

In his blog posts, which have since been removed from the Web, Fancey detailed a unit that seemed to have almost no discipline.
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The discipline problems that had plagued Bowe's unit back home only got worse when immersed in the fog of war. From the start, everything seemed to go wrong. In April, Lt. Fancey was removed from his post for clashing with a superior officer. He was replaced by Sgt. 1st Class Larry Hein, who had never held such a command – a move that left the remote outpost with no officers. According to four soldiers in the battalion, the removal of Fancey was quickly followed by a collapse in unit morale and an almost complete breakdown of authority.
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In early June, after photographs taken by Sean Smith appeared in The Guardian, Bowe's unit got reamed out by its commander for its lack of discipline. Bowe's squad leader, Sgt. Greg Leatherman, was demoted, and two other sergeants in the squad were reassigned. According to Fancey, one was made "a gate guard for the rest of the deployment."
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Korder other than honorable discharge:

Korder was recently discharged, which was listed as “other than honorable.”
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Represented and booked by Republican pr firm:

The New York Times reported on June 2 that "Republican strategists" arranged for the paper to interview soldiers who served with Bergdahl and have animosity towards him because they believe he is a deserter. One of the soldiers quoted in the article, Cody Full, sent out a tweet thanking Grenell "for helping get our platoon's story out." Buzzfeed reported that Grenell's partner at his firm, Brad Chase, confirmed that they were behind the public relations campaign (Grenell also sent out a tweet explaining his firm offered "pro bono services" to the soldiers).
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David Zucchino of the Los Angeles Times, who posted an article late Monday quoting Bergdahl's critics, said he had reached out to Grenell, who personally helped him contact Evan Buetow, a member of Bergdahl's platoon. The New York Times' Helene Cooper, whose article identified the source of her interview subjects as "Republican strategists," said she was contacted on Sunday with information on former platoonmates of Bergdahl who wanted to talk to the paper.
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Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

CalGun said:
Bergdahl says he was tortured by Taliban captors

Just curious. This is the first report I've seen that this soldier we traded for in Afghanistan has said anything? I'll be curious to know who is directing his comments? Are these his words or has the obummer regime given him the best PR firm a government can buy?

These comments are almost to politically correct. His email, his statements as reported by others and the concerns many had about his collaboration, treason and desertion are they "swift boating" him? Is that orchestrated by Fox? I see at least 6 young men coming forward and blasting this man....so do you believe one or six?
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The only thing that matters, was he tortured before he went over the hill (deserted) or after he deserted ?
 
Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

Grant said:
I actually did read them and, apart from the 'less than honorable' discharge regarding Korder, it is all hearsay and opinion, not facts.
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I don't consider the widely known and documented incidences of the unit's incapacity for discipline or the admission by a partner at the pr firm that they are representing and booking the soldiers in addition to a shout out of thanks from the soldier to be "hearsay and opinion."
 
Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

apdst said:
Character assissination is illegal in a courts martial.

When did I ever say "convict on hearsay"? Hell, YOU, are redy to deport Justin Beiber for excercisung his 1st Amendment rights.
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Fail.
 
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Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

CalGun said:
Bergdahl says he was tortured by Taliban captors

Just curious. This is the first report I've seen that this soldier we traded for in Afghanistan has said anything? I'll be curious to know who is directing his comments? Are these his words or has the obummer regime given him the best PR firm a government can buy?

These comments are almost to politically correct. His email, his statements as reported by others and the concerns many had about his collaboration, treason and desertion are they "swift boating" him? Is that orchestrated by Fox? I see at least 6 young men coming forward and blasting this man....so do you believe one or six?
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I believe that there is gonna be a trial.
 
Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

apdst said:
I have my opinion, but I never said their shouldn't be a trial.

Even through partisan glasses, the evidence is overwhelming.
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You (IIRC) and others have said that he should have just been left with Taliban. That is essentially passing judgment and sentencing a soldier to death without trial. If YOU personally did not say that, then I apologize, but others in this thread have.

That is completely wrong. The ONE thing I was fully behind was that fox news reporter that said you get your soldier back THEN investigate. You don't leave soldiers to the Taliban. NEVER.
 
Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

Grant said:
There are many people throughout history who we know to be guilty of crimes despite them never having gone through the legal system. There is the judicial system and the court of public opinion and in that court Bergdahl is an obvious deserter. Whether he is guilty of other crimes has yet to be demonstrated.
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Essentially leaving him to the Taliban would have been death for him and your "court of public opinion" would have sentenced him to death. You have said that we should have just left him to the Taliban. Can't get more un-American than leaving a U.S. soldier to terrorists.

You get him back and THEN investigate and/or put him on trial. Anything that leaves a soldier to terrorists is HIGHLY un-American.
 
Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

TheNextEra said:
Essentially leaving him to the Taliban would have been death for him and your "court of public opinion" would have sentenced him to death. You have said that we should have just left him to the Taliban. Can't get more un-American than leaving a U.S. soldier to terrorists.

You get him back and THEN investigate and/or put him on trial. Anything that leaves a soldier to terrorists is HIGHLY un-American.
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Please use quotes when you claim I've said something. What I did say was that he left his fellow Americans behind, not the other way around.

I think this was a bad deal for those Americans who are going to be killed because of this release of terrorists. It could have been handled differently. If it was possible to get bin Laden in a foreign country under far more difficult circumstances then, in five years, they should have been able to capture Bergdahl and kill all of those in his immediate area. The military has pulled off far more dangerous missions.
 
Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

A lot of times when cowards are captured the enemy treats them more harshly because they are cowards. The Japanese regarded all Americans that surrendered as cowards. not soldiers.
 
Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

rhinefire said:
A lot of times when cowards are captured the enemy treats them more harshly because they are cowards. The Japanese regarded all Americans that surrendered as cowards. not soldiers.
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Could that be because the Japanese culture held Kami-Kaze pilots in high regard?

Just as we celebrate our soldiers who "died for the cause" several times a year until eternity?
 
Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

Bob N said:
Not to be too partisan one way or another but did you realize that GWB released 500 prisoners?
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Releasing prisoners, in and of itself, is not the problem. Releasing these prisoners while the war is still ongoing is.
 
Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

Henry David said:
Is it really just that simple? A numbers game?
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That's why they kept him in Landstul Germany as long as they did. Easy to coach him with less US media around.
 
Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

ObamacareFail said:
That's why they kept him in Landstul Germany as long as they did. Easy to coach him with less US media around.
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True, and I think that is precisely what I think was happening....A false narrative is being laid out, and the disgusting attack of the character of honorable soldiers, while they lift up a deserter at best, is disgusting.
 
Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

AJiveMan said:
The majority does not rule for hearsay.
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You don't know the meaning of the word hearsay.
 
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CalGun said:
Bergdahl says he was tortured by Taliban captors

Just curious. This is the first report I've seen that this soldier we traded for in Afghanistan has said anything? I'll be curious to know who is directing his comments? Are these his words or has the obummer regime given him the best PR firm a government can buy?

These comments are almost to politically correct. His email, his statements as reported by others and the concerns many had about his collaboration, treason and desertion are they "swift boating" him? Is that orchestrated by Fox? I see at least 6 young men coming forward and blasting this man....so do you believe one or six?
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Well, you seem to be taking the Taliban's word over Bergdahl's, so I guess you'll believe anyone.
 
Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

jamesrage said:
Its been verified that these men are telling the truth? Links?
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You expect there to be links that show evidence what occurred on a remote battlefield in Afghanistan is true or not? Who has more reason to make up a story here? The soldiers don't get anything out of making up a story. And don't you think it is a bit odd that all their stories seem to coincide with each other. I have not heard stories from anyone in his unit that contradict what has been said. The administration has quite a few reasons to try and brush this under the rug by marring it in misinformation. They have an election to win this next year. The soldiers that spoke out are lucky to even get proper medical care after their stint in a battle zone in Afghanistan. They have no aspirations that could be potentially damaged by this.
 
Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

TheNextEra said:
Essentially leaving him to the Taliban would have been death for him and your "court of public opinion" would have sentenced him to death. You have said that we should have just left him to the Taliban. Can't get more un-American than leaving a U.S. soldier to terrorists.

You get him back and THEN investigate and/or put him on trial. Anything that leaves a soldier to terrorists is HIGHLY un-American.
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He had been with the Taliban for 5 years and was healthy. Would I have left him with the Taliban, that depends. Would I leave him with the Taliban if what it takes to free him kills more Americans? Yes. Would I leave him with the Taliban if I knew where he was and had a team of soldiers that could go in and get him? No. Of course I would go in and get him out of there regardless. If anything, the bring him home and put him on trial for what seems to be, quite a bit of evidence pointing to him leaving his post.
 
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