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European Central Bank adopts negative interest rates

Its what happens when the EU adopts the Keynesian economic outlook that claims spending is everything. What morons. :roll:

People criticizing Keynes really don't know anything about Keynesian economics. The problem is that politicians are only Keynesians when there is a downturn. When things are good they go back to buying votes with the government coffers and pleasing their corporate donors. One should also note that austerity during a recession is very much antithetical to Keynesian economics. None of the current crisis is a product of Keynesian economics gone wild. It is a problem of governments desperately trying to avoid any sort of economic consequences for their various past efforts to reinflate bursting bubbles. Monetarism is probably more directly responsible for the current problems of the EU and the global economy, though even that is not entirely to blame. The problem is that they are not really interested in any economic theories until there is a crisis.
 
People criticizing Keynes really don't know anything about Keynesian economics. The problem is that politicians are only Keynesians when there is a downturn. When things are good they go back to buying votes with the government coffers and pleasing their corporate donors. One should also note that austerity during a recession is very much antithetical to Keynesian economics. None of the current crisis is a product of Keynesian economics gone wild. It is a problem of governments desperately trying to avoid any sort of economic consequences for their various past efforts to reinflate bursting bubbles. Monetarism is probably more directly responsible for the current problems of the EU and the global economy, though even that is not entirely to blame. The problem is that they are not really interested in any economic theories until there is a crisis.

This is hardly Keynesian economics - this is European economic suicide - considering this is a global market.

This is one of the dumbest banking ideas I have ever heard of in my inter life....
 
Duh, thats what Keynes advocated in the first place.


What most of the EU is doing isnt really austerity.

Austerity In Europe: It Will Work If It's Ever Tried - Forbes

Keynesian economics have absolutely nothing to do with global trading - the Euro will fail completely.... What you're basically doing is creating a communal economy and segregating yourself from the world economy.

This is a ****ing disaster just waiting to happen,
 
You didn't address my comment about what happens if ALL states drop their taxes equally? There's no boom for anyone.

It is and it has never been about just dropping Taxes.

Its about creating a business friendly environment, a investment friendly environment.

And lowering taxes is part of it.
 
It is and it has never been about just dropping Taxes.

Its about creating a business friendly environment, a investment friendly environment.

And lowering taxes is part of it.

Times have changed and large businesses are no longer friendly. They'd have us working for pennies, like they did in the 30's before unions. Capitalism is simply a cut throat, business model and movies like "Wall Street" and "The Wolf of Wall Street" shed light on that fact.
 
It is and it has never been about just dropping Taxes.

Its about creating a business friendly environment, a investment friendly environment.

And lowering taxes is part of it.

It would also create segregated economies that use gold and silver instead of US dollars...

Our US dollars would be backed by nothing (not that they are presently).
 
Times have changed and large businesses are no longer friendly. They'd have us working for pennies, like they did in the 30's before unions. Capitalism is simply a cut throat, business model and movies like "Wall Street" and "The Wolf of Wall Street" shed light on that fact.

Yeah, eliminate profit and interest - sounds like a pseudo-Marxist plan to me....

What happens when you run out of wealth?
 
People criticizing Keynes really don't know anything about Keynesian economics. The problem is that politicians are only Keynesians when there is a downturn. When things are good they go back to buying votes with the government coffers and pleasing their corporate donors. One should also note that austerity during a recession is very much antithetical to Keynesian economics. None of the current crisis is a product of Keynesian economics gone wild. It is a problem of governments desperately trying to avoid any sort of economic consequences for their various past efforts to reinflate bursting bubbles. Monetarism is probably more directly responsible for the current problems of the EU and the global economy, though even that is not entirely to blame. The problem is that they are not really interested in any economic theories until there is a crisis.

Austerity is simply the consequence of years and years of deficit spending.

Its not and has never been a policy to increase economic growth.

Austerity was put into place to save the Euro and to save countless European banks that were leveraged up with worthless bonds from Union countries that violated the Maastricht Treaty.

Keynesian economics is not that difficult to comprehend.

Keynesian solutions don't work, and will never work because you can't address demand issues in a private sector, free market economy with Central planned allocations of stimulus that by-pass the free market principles that grow economies.

Arbitrarily dumping borrowed or printed currency into a economy doesn't address the fundamental issues that are leading to a lack of demand.

It creates debt and leads to misallocation of capital as it crowds out real wealth and innovation.

Obama's " Green Job's " iniative is a fantastic example of Keynesian misallocation.

Japan is also a great example. In the 90s rhey decided to implement Keynesian "solutions" as they borrowed massive amounts of money ( 200 percent of their GDP ) and dumped it back into their economy by " investing " in infrastructure.

They did exactly what every Lib on this board is calling for and it didnt work.

Now they're going for broke ( it will break them ) and entering into massive Monetary stimulus to try and fix what debt levels that exceed 200 percent of their GDP couldn't

Liberals and Progressives have no concept of humility.

They will never admit it was their policies that caused so much suffering and pain. I mean 6 years in and they're STILL blaming Bush.
 
Times have changed and large businesses are no longer friendly. They'd have us working for pennies, like they did in the 30's before unions. Capitalism is simply a cut throat, business model and movies like "Wall Street" and "The Wolf of Wall Street" shed light on that fact.

Marxist crap.

Its been debunked time and time again.
 
It would also create segregated economies that use gold and silver instead of US dollars...

Our US dollars would be backed by nothing (not that they are presently).

With the exception of the gold and silver segregated economies are starting to pick up steam as well as underground economies.
 
Yeah, eliminate profit and interest - sounds like a pseudo-Marxist plan to me....

What happens when you run out of wealth?


Marxist crap.

Its been debunked time and time again.


Is that the only way you guys can see things, from one extreme to the other?

I don't think there's a better financial model that's ever been used than America's, but it can always use some evolving and guidance.
 
Duh, thats what Keynes advocated in the first place.


What most of the EU is doing isnt really austerity.

Austerity In Europe: It Will Work If It's Ever Tried - Forbes

Yeah, Keynes NEVER said anything about paying off debt in good times *shaking head*


Austerity (less spending how ever you measure it) NEVER has worked in ANY downturns in modern society's! You austerity freaks just say hey, you just haven't starved enough yet..
 
It is and it has never been about just dropping Taxes.

Its about creating a business friendly environment, a investment friendly environment.

And lowering taxes is part of it.

That is the problem, CONservatives very seldom tell you their intentions. They talk nuances "job creation" "deficit reduction", "Austerity", They just can not say it loud and proud: I WILL GIVE YOUR GOVERNMENT TO THE RICH AND POWERFUL, (because is unfair that The Middle Class make any money at all and corporations do not get to keep all of it) SO I CAN GIVE IT TO THOSE WHO ALREADY HAVE MOST OF THE MONEY FROM BUYING CONGRESSMEN AND DEREGULATING INDUSTRY.
 
Yeah, eliminate profit and interest - sounds like a pseudo-Marxist plan to me....

What happens when you run out of wealth?


The whole reason democracy was invented as a means to make the rich and powerful give up their stranglehold on wealth and power.

Successful Americans didn't make their money themselves. They conducted business in an ordered society with roads and laws and a military that defends it from foreign invaders and they hired people. Nobody wants YOUR money, they want the share they contributed to it


Every time I listen to the small-gummint wingnuts, I reminds me of my 8 year old G/D when she says that rules like limits on candy and computer-time don't make sense.
 
Marxist crap.

Its been debunked time and time again.



Third World countries. One of the things they all had in common was a small, very rich elite, small middle class, and a large lower class. They also shared very low economic growth as a result. This has been known for at least 50 years. The US has been going in this direction for at least the last 30 years as we have gradually de-industrialized and government policies (such as trickle down economics) have promoted the shift of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the economic elite
 
Again, the oil and gas industry accounts for only 10 percent of Texas's GDP.

So its incorrect to attribute Texas's economic success to oil and gas.

Companies aren't relocating here because of oil.

LOL, YOU are NEVER honest

Unless you’ve been to Texas lately, you might have missed just how gigantic its latest oil and gas boom has become. Thanks to fracking and other new drilling techniques, plus historically high world oil prices, Texas oil production increased by 126 percent just between 2010 and 2013. Only a few years ago, Texas’s oil production had dwindled to just 15 percent of U.S. output; by May of last year it had jumped to 34.5 percent, as new drilling methods opened up vast new plays in once-forgotten corners of south and west Texas with names like Eagle Ford, Spraberry Trend, and Wolfcamp. Thanks to the bonanza of drilling, Texas already produces more oil than Venezuela, and is headed to become the ninth-largest producer of oil in the world, ahead of Kuwait, Mexico, and Iraq.

...To be sure, only about 8 percent of the new jobs in Texas are directly involved in oil and gas extraction, but the multiplier effects of the energy boom create a compounding supply of jobs for accountants, lawyers, doctors, home builders, gardeners, nannies, you name it. Saying that Texas doesn’t depend very much on oil and gas just because most Texans are not formally employed in drilling wells is like saying that the New York area doesn’t depend very much on Wall Street because only a handful of New Yorkers work on the floor of the stock exchange.


Oops: The Texas Miracle That Isn’t by Phillip Longman | The Washington Monthly
 
No, Subprime backed SECURITIES were distributed throughout the worlds Capital markets wrapped up and hidden away in CDO tranches like Time Bombs.

And Europe DEFINITELY did have a subprime market.

Spain, Italy AND Ireland had their own little Sub-Prime experiments.

They all failed miserably.


Yeah, Barney, Clinton, and the Dems fault because they forced F/F to create a WORLD WIDE CREDIT BUBBLE right? lol
 
It wasn't " illegal " when Clinton via executive orders forced lenders to lower their lending standards.

In fact lenders who refused to lower their standarsa were subjected to DOJ action.

And " Sub-Prime " means below prime.


Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis


The "turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007," the President's Working Group on Financial Markets

Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis | Economics | McClatchy DC



Most subprime lenders weren't subject to federal lending law

Community Reinvestment Act, blamed for home market crash, didn't apply to the banks that did the most lending.
Most subprime lenders weren't subject to federal lending law - The Orange County Register

Household debt grew from $7.4 trillion at yearend 2000, to $14.5 trillion in midyear 2008, 134% of disposable personal income


http://www.stat.unc.edu/faculty/cji/fys/2012/Subprime mortgage crisis.pdf

YEAH, CLINTON'S FAULT

Center for Public Integrity reported in 2011, mortgages financed by Wall Street from 2001 to 2008 were 4½ times more likely to be seriously delinquent than mortgages backed by Fannie and Freddie.
 
Not gonna work guys, its not going to work.

Hell, why dont we just start up the Subprime market again ?

Banks used cheap capital to create a bubble. Their lending strategies fueled and fed off the housing bubble, and they did so using mortgage products whose performance was premised on continued growth of that bubble.


Regulators and policymakers enabled this process at virtually every turn. Part of the reason they failed to understand the housing bubble was willful ignorance: they bought into the argument that the market would equilibrate itself. In particular, financial actors and regulatory officials both believed that secondary and tertiary markets could effectively control risk through pricing.


http://www.tobinproject.org/sites/tobinproject.org/files/assets/Fligstein_Catalyst of Disaster_0.pdf
 
So, the Lefties once again are attempting to force everyone into accepting and supporting their socialist utopian ideals and dreams, which are largely based on false or faked science and manufactured crisis, and exaggerated technical claims, so they utterly fail.

Many on this thread make statements that this is ALL based on "XYZ", such as the Euro, or the Monetary Easing Policies of Administration...

But its not. It is not any one thing, it is the falseness of Liberal policies and actions built up over time and economic area for a very long time.

It is the Lie and Faked Data of Anthropomorphic Global Warming.

It is the Toxic and Fire Hazard Tech Choice of All Electric Lithium Ion Battery Cars.

It is the picking of Science Graduates based on Ethnicity and Race rather than aptitude and performance.

It is the Blind Eye to violence and intolerance by Islamic Immigrants.

It is the continued scholarship, grants and work study jobs given preferentially to Women college students, even when the graduation rates have been 85% women for 25+ years!

It is Not any one particular Liberal Policy, it is the combined, decade after decade effect of ALL Liberal policies, which ignore and thumb their sneering nose at reality until our entire society is turned upside down and inside out.

William Butler Yeats (1865-1939)

THE SECOND COMING

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

It has been obvious for a very long time, that we are headed toward a catastrophic societal melt-down, due to unchallenged, unrestrained Liberalism.

We will get the collapse we deserve.

-
 
Austerity (less spending how ever you measure it) NEVER has worked in ANY downturns in modern society's! You austerity freaks just say hey, you just haven't starved enough yet..
Real austerity does indeed work, look at the Baltic states, they were the hardest hit during the 2008 economic downturn and now they are growing faster than the EU average. Austerity is simple: just keep cutting spending until your revenues exceed your spending- the rest of Europe (with the exception of Germany) didnt do that even though they were proclaiming they were practicing "austerity", only the Baltics really did what they said.

The Triumph Of Good Economics: 'Austere' Baltic States Outgrow Their European Neighbors - Forbes

Insight: Baltic countries' austerity lesson for Europe - Just do it | Reuters

Charlemagne: Latvian lessons | The Economist

And ease up on the name calling, it doesnt help you at all.
 
This is hardly Keynesian economics - this is European economic suicide - considering this is a global market.

This is one of the dumbest banking ideas I have ever heard of in my inter life....

If you are right, why fight it?

Unless you live in Europe, how does it hurt?

Why not let the foolish Euro-Socialists Implode and demonstrate just how suicidal it really is?

With Europe out of the way, America stands a slightly better, though still piss-poor, chance of actually competing with the Asian Industrial-Economic Might.

We'd have to get rid of our own Leftie-Loons from Government and Education, to have any chance at survival, but one less competitor wouldn't hurt.

-
 
That is the problem, CONservatives very seldom tell you their intentions. They talk nuances "job creation" "deficit reduction", "Austerity", They just can not say it loud and proud: I WILL GIVE YOUR GOVERNMENT TO THE RICH AND POWERFUL, (because is unfair that The Middle Class make any money at all and corporations do not get to keep all of it) SO I CAN GIVE IT TO THOSE WHO ALREADY HAVE MOST OF THE MONEY FROM BUYING CONGRESSMEN AND DEREGULATING INDUSTRY.

Oh look, more low information hyperbolic drivel.

Lol. Would it kill you to educate yourself beyond the predictable and innane left wing talking points you post every day ?

My intentions are clear. To expose the BS coming from people like you.

Austerity is simply the consequence unchecked Deficit spending.

Multiple European Countries exceeded the deficit limitations that were spelled out in the Maastricht treaty.

That meant that banks all over Europe were leveraged up with junk bonds from Countries like Greece, Spain and Italy

So, what would YOU have done to save the Euro and the banks that had been given IOUs not worth the paper the were written on ?

No really I want you to give me your plan to adress the European debt crisis.
 
Oh look, more low information hyperbolic drivel.

Lol. Would it kill you to educate yourself beyond the predictable and innane left wing talking points you post every day ?

My intentions are clear. To expose the BS coming from people like you.

Austerity is simply the consequence unchecked Deficit spending.

Multiple European Countries exceeded the deficit limitations that were spelled out in the Maastricht treaty.

That meant that banks all over Europe were leveraged up with junk bonds from Countries like Greece, Spain and Italy

So, what would YOU have done to save the Euro and the banks that had been given IOUs not worth the paper the were written on ?

No really I want you to give me your plan to adress the European debt crisis.

MORE right wing nonsense, I'm shocked, actually, like the USA, most of the problems currently being fought in Europe was a result of Banksters and their world wide credit bubble of the early 2000's, as Banksters sold MANY on the idea of financialization...



Goldman Sachs & the Destruction of Greece
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2SyP6rmJ1Y


n 2001, Goldman's financial alchemists formulated a scheme to allow the Greek government to hide the extent of its rising debt from the public and the European Community's budget overseers. Under this diabolical deal, Goldman funneled new capital from super-wealthy investors into the government's coffers.

Fine. Not so fine, though, is that, in exchange, Greek officials secretly agreed that the investors would get 20 years' worth of the annual revenue generated by such public assets as Greece's airports. For its part, Goldman pocketed $300 million in fees paid by the country's unwitting taxpayers.

The financial giant dubbed its airport scheme "Aeolus," after the ancient Greek god of the wind -- and, sure enough, any long-term financial benefit for Greece was soon gone with the wind.


How the Monsters at Goldman Sachs Caused a Greek Tragedy | Alternet
 
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